i could use some advice on the senior portrait front. here is the dilema... i know that i am a wedding photographer to the core because it was while shooting a friends wedding a couple of years ago that i was inspired to start my business. this is my 3rd year into it and i have over 30 weddings booked already. I also really love shooting portraits and feel that is something i dont want to let go of. i interviewed with a yearbook teacher at the local high school regarding marketing to the schools juniors this year before summer break. when he glanced at my prices he was a bit shocked because i dont offer free sitting fees like all of the other guys. they lure seniors in with free sitting fees and then charge them up the wahzoo for reprints. I have always been of the philosophy of charging upfront what i want to make and giving lots of love in each package. currently i am charging $275 for 'on location' photo shoots, 1-2 hours, with a $50 Pictage print credit. I just stopped giving away the digital files on CD. I am trying to make Pictage work both for me and my clients. here is sample of my current pricing. please critique it. i left it the same pricing wise since i dropped the digital files on cd thing and feel like i should drop the price as well.... but compared to engagement sessions... it IS comparable in price.

a couple of questions.....
1, am i charging too much? should i have a free sitting fee and up my reprint prices on Pictage?

2, should i even bother going to this 'senior fair' to market my already successful business? you know -the 'do one thing and do it well' theory. i really dont want to spread myself too thin this year... but i also want to grow and start getting my assistants shooting portraits for me.... i guess i have to answer this question for myself really

3, and.... if you could have one super-power what would it be?

thanks for enduring my rambling and hearing me out. any help would be greatly appreciated!

I would encourage you to keep your prices where they are at... and hopefully be raising them in the future. I personally don't feel that fee is unreasonable by any means to hire a professional photographer.

I can understand how this would shock someone at the high school year book, especially when the other photographers are doing the sittings for free. But as you noted yourself, they are in the business for portrait sittings and are looking to make bucks on the prints.

Sounds like you are doing well man. I hope you are having an absolutel blast running your business and shooting.

Hey Camsauce...


I LLLLLOVE doing senior portraits! Now...being that we are in two different cost of living scenarios...louisiana prices might slightly be different than from Cali.

I usually don't charge a sitting fee. I have packages that range from 250-750. And next year I'm going up and doing a GF. This year I really had some growing pains with pricing but this is what I've learned. Seniors want choices choices choices. If they book me and buy a package then I just defer their sitting fee and just apply it to a package of their choice. I'm the only photographer in this area that lets them have unlimited poses....and they love that!!! And they get to keep their proofs (20) in a little 4x6 leather book. This year has been such a blessing. Another thing that is a hit is offering the digital negatives with all their images edited for $800...no prints...just that. They can do the prints themselves. THAT has been such a great hit. But this is Louisiana. People here go crazy about senior pics. I've had a a few seniors that spent a total of 1200 because they needed more prints done.

Well..I'm rambling....

And my super power answer to your super power question would have to be....hmmmm...

.......to be able to read minds!!!!


KK

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... but i also want to grow and start getting my assistants shooting portraits for me.

I like the way you're thinking! ...I've been considering the same thing.

Portraiture is a very process oriented business that (I think) could easily be delegated to a second shooter...BUT...a fee based pricing system like you have now will not work if that's what you intend to do. Too much trust is involved in that sort of system and the people are going to pay that upfront money because they want/trust you! I'd suggest more typical pricing...but...still charge a sitting fee. Don't waste your time with people unless they are going to pay you something.

Think about what they are going to order - 1 or 2 big prints and a gazillion little ones...so that's where you're gonna gauge'em (sorry - but that's the truth) You'll need more than a few dollars profit on the wallets. I'd at least triple your wallets price and stick your other enlargements 11x14 and up in the $100+ You'll still end profiting the same amount but now I think you'll be able to pass the responsibility on a lot easier. Also - I'd sell your prints in groups - 1 11x14 - 1 8x10 - 100 wallets = $500 It's too easy to scan 1 print and email it around or even print out a million wallets on people's home computer...it seems that every 12 year old is more tech savvy then I am these days so I imagine they've used scanners and although it's sad people will have no problem "stealing" your images and printing them as they please.

DJ... so im hearing you say that i should jack up my reprints and group them into package and charge a flat sitting fee. How do i best work pictage into that? Do you operate through Pictage with the portraits that you do? Print credit is simply that, print credit... they can end up with a wide variety of sizes. So i should offer different 'carrots' to choose from and then they can sort it out once they are on pictage. do you really think i should raise me prices 3xs? why am i so intimidated to do that sort of stuff?! i just have a hard time dealing with more than a buck for a wallet. where should my sitting fee rest? $100?... $200?...
and as you have thought yourself of hiring second shooters how do you work all of that out? Pay her (i have girls) the sitting fee and make profit off of prints?
i hear what you are saying about those 12 yr old hackers! they are training with video games...

thanks for the help everybody... katherine... sounds like you have figured out how to price good... i would love to check out your packages. not sure that power is a good choice. i think you would loose friends if you knew what went through their heads.

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why am i so intimidated to do that sort of stuff?! i just have a hard time dealing with more than a buck for a wallet.

Hey Camsauce...

I totally undersatnd what you are going through. I used to feel that way when I was just doing weddings and senior portriats a year and a half into the business. I felt like I didn't have enough to show for myself or what not. Hunnie, it is all about perception. Your work is awesome and you are soooo going places.

Anyhow..I felt like I couldn't charge 2k for a wedding since I had only done like 6 in my life..(well..back then) or even charge high for senior portraits if that was only my second year. I remember when I started doing weddings I hiked up my wedding price from like 400 to 800 and I was soo nervous. And now 3 years later (since having been around great people on this forum as well) I just hiked up my prices for the 4th time and I've had some bites on it! God's favor baby...God's favor.


You know...one thing I've learned from meeting with people is that if you're work is awesome then they'll pay what you ask. You don't have to have done a few thousand weddings to be like the greats of wedding photography. Again it's all about perception. Cameron...when I saw those engagement pictures that you posted...they blew my mind away. They were awesome. (the ones that you said were sepia toned with a little color) I would pay you at least 3k just to do me and my hubby for engagements. I LLLLLOVED THEM. In fact...I even showed him your shots and commented on how awesome they were. Our attitude shouldn't have to wait until we've made it big....it should have started when we've all found our passion! Which is photography.

Hike it up Camsauce!

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I just have a hard time dealing with more than a buck for a wallet.

Where is Salomone when you need him?

katherine,
you are crazy......! thanks for the encouragement! i'm amazed that you are as impressed as you are. i would totally shoot some engagements of you and your hubby for 2 grand... i would even do it for a heck of a lot less. thanks so much!
yeah... i guess i do want to set myself apart as a high-end portrait photographer and pricing would be part of that. i just need to find out what my competition is doing and work around that. so... question is... do i drop my sitting fee and increase my print pricing? or what?! do you utilize Pictage for your printing?.....
sorry for so many stinking questions...
you have all been very encouraging!

David...you are weird. Solomone? is that the rich guy in the bible except you spelt his name wrong? or..... some other guy that i should get in touch with? and, don't you have a desired super-hero power?!

DJ,
Interesting! Turning portrait sessions over to someone else? I understand delegation and outsourcing to concentrate on developing your business, but should your photography not be a signature part of what you are selling to you potential clients? I know you are selling your service, image, etc., but once again, is your photography not something that you are trying to sell as part of your image? What's your take on this?

That was actually my post....

Amber...

I'm with you. I was wondering about that as well. What if an assistant took a shot that was the totally most favorite one of the bride? Would you consider that your picture? just thinking out loud here...

Interesting...glad you brought it up.

KK

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David...you are weird. Solomone? is that the rich guy in the bible except you spelt his name wrong?

LOL - That's awesome! David Salomone is a photographer friend of mine out of New York - He charges $350 for an 8x10 from a portrait sitting and $35 for a 4x6 from a wedding shoot!

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...but should your photography not be a signature part of what you are selling to you potential clients?

This depends on what the purpose of your business is. If you want your business to give you more time and freedom to do other things then you definitely do not want a business that relies on a product that only you can provide.

(for the record I didn't mean turing over "portrait sessions" for my wedding clients.)

What I was talking about was possibly starting another business that provides a very "Santa Barbara" portrait. Fun - casual - etc..

This is something that I have very little interest in actually shooting but I think I could learn a lot and make some good money by owning a business that provides this sort of product. The "signature" part of this is the business itself and its products- not necessarily the person creating them.

QUOTE (davidjay @ May 15 2005, 12:17 AM)

What I was talking about was possibly starting another business that provides a very "Santa Barbara" portrait. Fun - casual - etc..

That's an interesting idea... That's definetly something I'd be into and I'd gladly shoot for you. If you ever go for it, let's talk.

-Billy