Hello all,

We're starting to get enough calls for 2-photographer events that it's time to stop renting gear for the second shooter (my wife) and get two sets of gear. We currently use the following:

30D
20D
70-200 2.8L IS
24-70 2.8L
Sigma 15-30

...We have extra bodies and a variety of "2nd tier" lenses for backups. When I shoot something myself, I use a belt harness and have the 70-200 on my 20D (shooting ambient light only) and alternate the 24-70 and 15-30 on my 30D which has a stroboframe and a Sigma 500 Flash with a modifier.

Going forward, my wife will shoot with the 20D with a bracket, flash, and modifier, alternating between the 24-70 and the 15-30.

Here's a graph of the percentage of shots from a typical wedding (focal length adjusted for 35mm):



As you can see, I shoot wide with the 15-30 (at 15mm) and at both ends of the 24-70.

I don't really like the 15-30 so much, and I hate to buy another 24-70, since I'm still shooting solo 75% of the time.

I've decided to buy a 5d for the following reasons: better high ISO performance and higher resolution (when you're shooting the typical Orthodox Jewish grandparent, who has 12 children and 12*12 grandchildren, you really need more PPF (pixels per face™) than the 30D can provide.

That being the case, I need something with 70mm * 1.6 reach for the 5D. The 135 f/2.0L ($850) will work nicely. To get 15mm * 1.6, I could buy the 24 f/1.4L ($1100). That would be awesome, as I could use as much light as possible for capturing those huge circle dances at Jewish weddings.

Here's the rub: I feel like I need a 30mm * 1.6 to fill the center. The 50mm f/1.4 ($290) would work well, except that it's AF is really bad in low light, and it's realy soft below 2.8. As you can see from the chart, I can use all the light I can get. The other option is to get the 50mm f/1.2L ($1600), but $1600 FOR A 50mm LENS?! ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND?!

So it's $2700 for the 24mm 1.4L and the 50mm 1.2L, or I can spend $1100 and get another 24-70 2.8L. I just hate to have two copies of the same lens. I feel like, with these three primes added to my three zoom lenses, I've really got most combinations covered.

What would you do? Am I crazy spending $1600 on a 50mm lens?

Confused,

-TM

YES, you are... The 50 1.4 is a great lens, reasonably sharp wide open and it focuses just fine in low light on my 5D, certainly better than a 24-70 f2.8 that only gets 1/4 of the light to the focus sensor!

I second your idea to buy the 24 1.4L, I love mine.

In short, I would buy the 24 1.4L, the 50 1.4 before I got (another) 24-70mm... in fact, I DID! ;-)

~Bill

OK, I was baseing my 50 1.4 fears on this.

-TM

P.S: Do you go around smacking people on the head, or is the person in the avatar special in some way?

That's a great resource and I see a lot of good reviewing there... Copies do vary and you're better off going someplace local and asking to see 2 or 3 of the same lens, take some pictures with each, jot down the last digits of the serial number and what frames are what and go home and analyze. Go back and buy the best one. If the store is far from home, take a laptop with you... ;-)

While I do take kick boxing classes for fun and exercise, I don't go around smacking just anyone... that kid really deserved it... (kidding of course, I was spinning her on a toy at the playground, it just looks that way).

Now if I had an avi like this... well you'd want to watch out... (taken with a 5D and 50 1.4) see how I tied that back in? ;-)

It's lens answer night for me, apparently!

My 50mm 1.4 was the first lens I bought when I switched to my first D-SLR two years ago. It has served me very very well. Except for the fact that it needs to return to the Mothership (Canon Inc. in Irvine, CA) 2-3 times a year for servicing. It just is not built like an L-series lens, and the focus needs to be adjusted... at least it has for me. Come to think of it I'm on my second 50mm - the first stopped autofocusing, and Canon did a shoddy repair job. Luckily Calumet replaced it for me, even though it was more than a year old. LOVE shopping locally.

But I digress. My point is that, for me, if the 50mm 1.2 holds up to the ecstatic comments I've heard, it will be my next lens purchase. I got to use Timco's rental in Pismo, and this is truly an L-series lens. It has a completely different build. If it will stay tack sharp, not break under normal heavy use, and produce even better images than the 50mm 1.4 that I rely on so much, I'll be purchasing this in a heartbeat. I'm going to get a loaner to really test it out, but I'm 90% certain I'll own it by April.

I don't really care what it costs, I just want it to be the lens I want.

You're right Dawn, that's a sweet lens, and If I were doing children portraiture full time I would consider it too. :-)

Here is a shot I took OF Timco with his rented 50 1.2 (wide open) ;-)

I've pondered that for the 50 and the 85 SEVERAL TIMES and it comes down to ROI and honestly I just dont see it. Yah I know how great they are, but the dif between their little brothers is so small, my clients will NEVER know the dif.. I will never land a gig because of them or miss one because i don't have them.


however if im in need of a substantial write-off at the end of the year, I might audible one

That guy is in trouble, full mount.
How is it that you were here all weekend and we didn't discuss MMA?!

BTW, I would buy a 24 2.8 and a 50 1.4. If you like them and can use them but still need more speed sell them and get the L versions. But I wouldn't just jump into the most expensive primes given that you are completely used to zooms (I assume from your graphs) and might not like adjusting your shooting style to them.
I love zooms as they are mostly all I use at weddings and I don't feel any less a man for it

Please please tell me how to create graphs like that!

Personally, I would buy the 20 2.8, 28 1.8, 85 1.8 and 135 2.0 and put $700 in my pocket. Then I'd go to the dump and see how far I could throw the flash bracket. I know some people love their flash brackets, but I HATE them and would go way out of my way to use something besides a flash bracket. Your wrists will thank you, too.
Cory

Hi Colin,

Thanks for your input! I shoot so frequently at 15mm and 70mm with my 30D that I think the 24 1.4L and 135 2.0L make sense for me. At F3.5, my 15-30 is more than 3/4 of a stop too dark, so I'm going with the 24 1.4L I'm going to go with the 50 1.4 for now. I am a bit nervous about the leap to primes, but if I don't like it, when I shoot alone, I'll have the zooms too. I know I'll laugh the first time I try to rotate the lens body.

Why can't canon make an $800 50mm 1.4L? Grr!

-TM

Hi Cory,

At most of the events I shoot, the men are all wearing fedoras, so bouncing off the ceiling is not an option. I use a flash diffuser, and I need to keep the flash centered on the lens, so I use a bracket.

When I shoot non-Orthodox-Jewish events, there's no fedoras in sight, so I leave the bracket in the bag and sing a happy tune as I bounce away!

-TM




I saw this in a simplephoto.tv video. You can get it at http://tinyurl.com/386gu9 .

-TM

I prefer to bounce off the walls, which would work well with fedoras. However, I am just (mostly) giving you a hard time. If a bracket works for you, more power to ya! Below is an example of wall bounce.
Click to view attachment

Hi Cory,

That's really beautiful, I love it! Sadly, unlike the ceiling, walls are sometimes more that 10-15 feet away. You have inspired me to try it, though. I'll let you know how it goes.

-TM

While I do take kick boxing classes for fun and exercise, I don't go around smacking just anyone... that kid really deserved it... (kidding of course, I was spinning her on a toy at the playground, it just looks that way).

hahahahaha. Always wondered about that but was afraid to ask! hahahahahaha.

I believe the wall was about 40 feet away! This was taken at ISO 1600 f1.8 (primes really extend the range of your flash). When you try it, send me an email of the results!
Cory

Yes, I was also wondering about it for a while. Glad we got that cleared up!

-TM

Dude! That's the most brilliant record of lens usage I've ever seen! I think I was thinking it was a joke there for a little bit! LOL! Kudos to you for keeping up with the details!

Shooting Nikon, but the 50 1.4 is a great, really sharp lens!

Wow, that's great. What flash did you use in this shot?

-TM



Hi Nathan,

Actually, I didn't do much of anything - you point the application at your directory of JPEGs, and it does the rest.

-TM

The problem with bouncing off of far away walls is that you really annoy anyone between you and the wall.

And downright blinding if there is someone standing right next to you. Most people don't get hit by my flash as it is normally at a slight, upward angle and zoomed to hit the wall in a smaller spot, generally above people's heads. Using a wall when there are a bunch of people between you and the wall doesn't do a lot of good because it will bounce off them. Straight off the ceiling generally results in overhead lighting, which is not my favorite, but better than direct or off a bracket in my opinion.

I do hit the occasional guest standing right next to me squarely between the eyes. Oops.
Cory

I think that is a really good plan. If you don't like the primes I am sure you can sell them for as much as you paid. The 50 1.4 can be a really good lens, just buy local and do lots of testing. I bought a 70-200 2.8IS last week and tested a couple of copies. One had some odd distortion on the top right, the other was perfect. I paid $150 more for it than mail order (tax) but it would have been a bummer to be stuck with a bad copy!

Good point. I'll have to start yelling "clear!" before I wall-bounce.

-TM

I don't know why but this whole thread has been really funny to me. Must be in a straaaage mood today. Or it could be I'm dizzy from editing!

No...Just give 'em a sunburn. It only hurts for a minute!

I agree. Only, in my case it's album design. Editing is easy for me compared to album design!

Beats me... It's not something I bring up a lot, people have all sorts of strange reactions to martial arts in general and MMA in particular... I may be shooting another one in May (I say maybe because I have a wedding the day they are tentatively scheduling it for).

</threadjack>

OK, so here's what I did in the end.

A couple things changed since I started this topic. The 1DMkIII and the 16-35 2.8L, namely. I had always avoided the 16-35 2.8L because of it's inconsistent reviews. The fact that a new version has been released seems to justify my hesitation.

As mentioned above, I have the Sigma 15-30 3.5-4.5, but I don't like it much. Now that an improved 16-35 2.8L is coming out, I'll be buying that. That being the case, I think we're going to hold off on buying a new body, and do as follows. New gear in bold:

Me:
30D + 16-35 2.8L II + 85 1.8 + 50 1.4
350D + 70-200 2.8L IS

Her:
20D + 24-70 2.8L + Sigma 15-30

I'd love to get the 5d or 1DMkIII, but we shoot together relatively rarely, and we're doing OK so far with what we have. With the 1DMkIII adding so many new features, I can afford to wait a year and see how the reviews pan out, and how the 5DMkII looks, etc. I'd love to play with Full-Frame-Ness, but I'm not seeing the ROI.

I hate to use the 350D with "big white", but I used to before I bought the 30D, and it was OK. I do prefer the 5fps of the 30D, but like I said, the two of us shoot together rarely enough that it should be OK.

What do you think?

-TM