Before the whole OSP crash I had a post asking about the whole pre-design deal and how it worked. Well, I watched the Gary Fong DVD, took notes and tried to follow them. I had two brides that had already booked me with out the album credit packages and the pre-design sunk like a heavy anchor with them. I'm still waiting on one bride to get back to me from early November.

But!...I just completed the wedding of my first client where I explained the album credits and predesign at their first meeting/booking and it worked! I mean really worked. She had an album credit for what would be roughly equal to a 9X9 20 side album and now she is walking away with 1 30page Asuka book of the rehearsal dinner, and 2 -60 page Queensberry albums of the wedding! I can really hardly believe it.

I feel like a genius but I know the real difference is simply that they have lots of cash and she really loves any type of pictures. I did spend a total of about 12 hours with her this week making changes to the albums. I was fine with doing it on the phone/email but she wanted to meet and all though it was looooong it definitely was worth it. I know this was just a lucky break that we upsold so much but I'm really hoping it's not that lucky and this pattern will continue at least some of the time in the future.

Thanks to all of you that gave me advice when I posted earlier this fall. I owe you.... a lot! -Ashley

Congratulations! That's great to hear. Its good to hear that that approach is working.

I just got the Fong video myself and plan on trying it as well. We'll see!

Good too hear! My last 2 brides were so tight on budget that even $50 over was too much for them. I also described the album credit and will do the album pre-design but I don't think I will be able to squeez too much out of them. One think I don't get from that approach: if a bride has a lot of cash to burn, why do they shop and buy low price packages. I think they would shop in their price range and miss you if you offer low price for a package but think about making it up with the album.

I try to read the client before I spend extra time doing a huge pre-design

If they're a couple students who spent half their budget on me...I probably won't...but if they didn't blink while booking my highest package....I'll do a huge pre-design and upsell everything...

Rock on!

You are right. It doesn't make sence pre-designing too many pages if there's no money there.

AWESOME!!! So glad to hear that it's working! I did my first final album predesign and they are still weeding it down - probably only going with their original thoughts on size. It's a real shame too - I just love their pre-design and don't think it'll do justice cut in half. Glad to hear the positive side of pre-design - keeps me hopeful!

I had a lot of luck pre-designing engagement albums, but wedding albums were kind of all over in success. One bride actually ordered twice her album budget, a double 80 page album! Then another bride got her heart broken because she couldn't afford the pre-design - her doggie had to have surgery and lots of her money went to that ;(!!

When you pre-design, how many pages do you usually do? Double their album credit? Or just what the story and the photos call for?

Ksenia

Johnny had an idea about interest free payment plan.

I may be a little dense but what do you mean by pre-design? How do you "design" the album before the pictures are shot?

Ha-ha. You don't. You take the pictures and then you design the album, but according to Gary Fong's method, you pre-design more pages then they paid for as an album credit. You say, here is your album, do you want to go down to what you paid already, or pay for the rest of the pages.

Ohh ok. Wow, that's a great idea.

Another seemingly stupid question: The album is just sent as a "proof" to the client as a slideshow I guess? Then they have the option of cutting out pages to keep the album inside their "credit" or keeping the album as presented?

If you really want to know all the details you have to get Gary Fong's DVD "Getting rich...".
Basically, yes. They can go down to prepaid amount of pages if they want. Or if they want to keep it as is then they have to pay for extra pages. It assumes that they have extra money to spend after the wedding and you explain that to them before so they know what to expect.

I usually just tell the story as I see it and always include all of my favorite "portrait" type pictures. I figure if I just keep it small they will think, "yeah that looks good, I'll take that" but if I include everything it should be harder to part with pages. It worked this time, but I don't expect it to every time and that is fine.

ashley, that's great!

i just wanted to mention a couple of things -
the good news is pre-designing works.

the BAD news is....
pre-designing works!

please note that the focus is to create a really happy client! the focus is NOT so squeeze as much out of them as you can! if you manage your clients' expectations and make SURE they understand what you can do for them, it will be a win-win.


if you drop a giant book, with a huge price tag in their laps without any kind of expectation, you will create a very unpleasant situation for everyone!

KEEP THIS IN MIND:
*make SURE they know you will be designing an album for them to see.
*make SURE they know that it will be LOTS of pages (if it will be)
*make SURE they have some idea of the price
*make SURE they know they can choose the pages they want and that YOU WILL HELP them choose them, so that they LOVE it (even if they have to 'cut it down' - or "select it up")

make SURE you DO NOT put the selling of the book in front of CREATING clients that are THRILLED! if you manage their expectations, they will want you to make them a book, and everyone will be happy.

I have been using the "album pre-design" model for almost 20 years. There is nothing really "new" about the concept. The approach though needs to be promoted conceptually to your clients. This has to start with your very first contact with them. To be successful at this approach requires that your clients hire you for your creative vision and not just for X-number of pictures on X-number of pages. My average album sale is an additional $2500 above the pre-paid retainer and my largest sale was $50,000 total for 15 albums.

If anyone is interested I'd be happy to host a mini-seminar and properly present the concept from start to finish; how to market it, how to sell it one-on-one and how to design and follow through with the sale. Perhaps a group of So. CA photographers might want to get together for some brainstorming and I will present the concept? Lets build on this so other ideas are also welcome, please contribute.

Rick

I'll be looking for my check...

Bentley

Ok question, I went to Gary's seminart that the DVD is based on. I liked the concept and had tryd to take as many notes as possible. That was last February. How do you guys feel about the DVD is it worth it?

best money i ever spent.
hands down.

+1. This DVD had a lot to do with my decision to switch to photography from videography. The DVD really opens your eyes up to the amazing profit to made through albums.

I'm excited to share too that it really does work. With the techniques I learned from this DVD, the very first wedding I booked for photo, I made double what I ever made on a wedding video, and that was BEFORE the final album that they are getting as well.. so I'm excited that by the end of it, my profit will be about 3-4 times more on this one wedding. And I've been booking a lot more the same way too!

Go Gary Fong!

Thanx Robin.

I saw your review on fotofusion how is it at cranking out books in a timely fashion, I downloaded a demo but it seemed that it did not havew any templates. Did I not spend enough time with it. Im looking for a album program. I have Gary's but was looking for something like Page Gallery or Auto Album.

Thanx

Wow thats great. Congrats on your sucsess!!

Check out Dane Sanders new website too. Under the details section he explains via video exactly how the pre-design process works. Also, if you check out simplephotominute and click on his marketing video, he also explains how to set the expectations high right away with the engagement album pre-design, and then your clients will actually expect the pre-designed album once the wedding is over.

I personally have never tried the pre-design thing, but I can't help but think it's got to be a win-win. Remember that this business is about creating amazing life-long artistic heirlooms for our clients once in a lifetime day--it's not about shoot & burn, quick money, etc. I think it's SO SAD when couples don't opt for an album of any kind..anything we can do to make that happen for them (even the interest free payment plan thing!) is great!

well


LumaPix is a great tool for drag and drop creative design. Everything is flexible. It is not software with witch you want to use templates.

think freeform design.

I wholeheartedly agree, Geneve. Unfortunately, I didn't always see or practice it this way, and I am still suffering from earlier poor decisions. That has all changed now, thanks so very much to Robin and others, like Gary Fong, Becker, JT, and you ... folks who truly understand the business of wedding photography and are so incredibly gracious in sharing their experiences and knowledge.

Pre-design works incredibly well, but you simply must manage your customers expectations. That has been emphasized over and over again.

exactly. i don't use templates. it is so fast without them, i see no need. v4 is smokin'.
if you ARE looking for templates, this may not be for you.
eventually, i'd like to start saving my pages as templates and share them, but i'm su burried right now, that's a long way off.

Isn't Lumapix for PC only Robin? Too bad!

Spoken like a true Fong-ite, Robin!

I bought the DVDs and, after watching them, ripped the audio and am listening to it in the car. The key is to make the clients rave, who will then gush about you to their richer friends.

You really must buy the DVDs to attempt this technique, I think. It's a simple idea, but there are many little things he does to make the idea work well. I got the DVDs on eBay for $90.

-TM

Do you guys who are currently doing this have any advice on how to get started? I did go to Gary's seminar. I currently sell packages that include traditional albums. They rannge from 20-36 sides. I tell the bride to pick out images (aproximately 2.5 per page) and we lay it out together.

Most of my brides around here want traditional albums. I have had times where we seem to have a hard time fitting all thier favorite images in the album. I try to get them to add the extra pages, but they never do, they start to cut down their list of images for the album instead.

I live in a very consertive community.

I am thinking to change my "album with XX pages" to an album credit instead. Then maybe I can predisign? But, then I go back to most of my customers want traditional....

Any advice?

I suggest listening to the DVD again. Don't let them pick the images. Do the design and present it in it's completed form. Don't even let them see the proofs until a week after you've presented the album design.

Seriously, watch the DVD again. There's a great moment where he channels Michael Gerber (author of the E-Myth). He says something like "People come to me and say 'Gary, I've done everything you said but I just changed one thing.' Do you know why McDonalds succeeds? They count the shakes of salt because they have a formula that works and they repeat it exactly every time."

I love you guys - I found out about Gary's DVD and the E-Myth here!

Follow his plan. Exactly. To the letter.

Good Luck,

-TM