http://www.xanga.com/garyfong1

150x$3000 (min) = $450,000!

How many employees do they have?

Yep - but the biggest package is $2800 and includes ALOT.

Sean

Yikes, do these folks ever sleep? They need to start outsourcing immediately!
I admire their drive though. Just hope they give themselves a break occasionally!

I'd rather shoot 10 @ $28,000.

Oh, wait, I'm not Mike Colon.

Carry on...

That was my point...
And that is also why I wondered how many people they pay.

I hope they're "Fongin' out" their wedding books - for their sake.

Dang, I want to know what they did for marketing!

they've got 15 associates (and 7 kids) and are about to have NO LIFE!!

yikes!!! i now feel like all my crap adds up to zilch. wow.

what I'm wondering is... are there any other wedding photographers in Seattle who are working in 2007?

selective color lives on!

Did anybody watch the "our team" video? Check out the chick with the popup flash

Um, yes.

Wow! Wow! WOW! I just can't get over the 7 kids part. I have three. When in the world do they see them? Help them with their homework? I'm sure it can be done, but can they possibly do everything well??

But, hey, now I know who all those Knottie brides are talking about everyday.

There has always been two business models in wedding photography.

Photographer A - The small studio or sole practitioner who wants to shoot at most around 30-45 weddings annually. He wants to market a higher fee based product.

Photographer B - The studio that wants volume. He hires as many warm bodies as he can find, gives them minimal training (if any) and sends them out to shoot under their name. They also have a staff of support people doing album designing and meeting with clients. They have package pricing that runs the entire range from very inexpensive up to medium pricing in the $2500-$2900 range. They rarely are successful offering the studio owner as the "cachet" photographer for a fee higher than $3000-$4000. Their studios want to shoot 100 or more weddings a year. I know of one successful studio that did 250 weddings in 2006. Another that did even more.

Guess which one walks away with the most money in his pocket.

Rick

And more importantly, which one gets to spend more time with family?

The one who shoots for someone else and takes home a regular paycheck.

and as you know, it's the same one!

Rick

Why?

So you can do the same thing?

Or do the opposite?

105 weddings (with a projection to hit 140)...that's strictly a volume-based business model. (Look for the bouncing yellow ball...)

How many brides do you think stand at the end of the aisle on their special day and pat themselves on the shoulder for saving a lot of money on their wedding photography? 10, 25, 50 years later...will they and their families sit around discussing the huge amount of money they saved...or will they look at the pictures and wish they had spent a little more on quality over quantity?

More important...do you want that bride as your customer?

(don't get me wrong...I'm sure they are nice people...and I have tons of respect for people who have twice as many kids as I do...I just don't think we need to be envious in any way of their volume #'s...unless volume is your thing...then you probably need to worship them...)

I'd like to book about 60 in the 2500-4500 range... so I do look up to their marketing but I wouldn't want to have to manage 100+ weddings with our FOUR kids let alone 7!

m

I think their website said something about being all referalls from their first year brides...so it sounds like it could be a combination of several things...

Personality (fun and creative)
Price
Promise of great service
Referrals from super happy brides
Great work

You know...the PPPRG factor!

Direct quote from Gary's blog.

1/4 were referrals from last year.

interesting.

volume. it's deceiving. 105 weddings. let's say they book the 140 that they expect, and that they include themselves in the 15 associates that shoot them. that would be just over 9 weddings per associate. running the actual math, i don't see how high volume, lower $$ is a big profit situation for a photography biz. (unless they went WAY higher volume) gotta see the math on this one.

it looks to me that a biz plan is in desperate need here. booking that kind of volume and needing to consult gary on what to do to handle it? and Pictage is the answer? pictage or ANY fullfilment systen is a no-brainer. but that is only 1 tiny aspect of an enormous puzzle.

without a biz plan, this is a recipe for nothing but disaster. and without a really iron clad workflow, yikes!

i think it's fabulous that they have accomplished their goal. i am very curious about more numbers - and not the ones related to the $$.

I stand corrected

Do people really trust a business that meets at Starbucks? You don't have alot of ways to get a hold of people if they take your money and dont want to be found!

I can't imagine anyone doing that but I guess it could happen.

But if a 1/4 is from referrals and the rest 3/4 are from booking at Starbucks what am I missing here? I dont get that. I like Starvbucks and I like the atmosphere but how does that translate to getting inquiries in that volume to begin with whether you meet at Starbucks or not?

My husband came home for lunch and of course I showed this to him. He said they'll be the premeir wedding photographers in Seattle in the next five years. (He thinks he's smart, but I'm smarter. ) Anyways, if they do 105 weddings at their highest package, they gross 294,000. That isn't including their costs or anything! I don't know how they are all eating!

Are they upselling albums like crazy? THey give a DVD of all the negatives with the top package also, which eliminates a ton of reprint sales. Doesn't it? I don't know much about math, etc., but my mind is boggled at how they are surviving. I wish them luck though.


Um, I meet my clients at Starbucks.

I meet clients at Starbucks, too, and know of many photographers that do the same quite successfully. What's your point, Kerri?

I guess what I am asking is how does Starbucks play into this studio's ability to get the inquiries in the first place. I dont see how that factors into someone's marketing plan. I am not seeing how by simply meeting at a coffee shop that they are getting the calls without it becoming referral based first then meeting at a hip coffee shop second.

Why would he think that? I think of the premier as the best, most-wanted photographer. There are other studios doing this model here in town (Alex studios, Yen Lui, Studio 6, etc.). None of them are considered the "premier". Just curious about what makes him think this?
Cory

I think I need to drink more coffee...

I've worked for the high volume studio. It is a logistics nightmare. In the end the only way to make it profitable is to be HUGE in volume. Being large isn't enough to keep things fluid. That middle ground is tough territory.

I wish them lots of luck.

i'm with colleen... the math does not support a successful, profitable biz. (gotta up the rates)

i think starbucks is an awesome meeting place! and i've recently had a few brides book us without even meeting them! it's not about where you meet, it's about the experience you provide to your client.

i think this is so interesting! i don't think i get 105 CALLS, let alone book high volume. (but, it's not my biz model.) so i'm curious how they actaully get the phone to ring, and what their booking rate is. their work is very nice, but with 15 associate... consistent? i'm just curious. strange phenomenon.

I went to a bridal show as a guest, and came home with their info, gotta be honest, I wasn't impressed in the least. Nothing stood out, just another face in the crowd. I'm not bad mouthing them, I don't even know them. Until Gary mentioned them theres no way to know they were doing this kind of volume.

At that same bridal show I was at many of the couples came up to my friends that I was visitng and asked if they were the actual photographers or do they hire out. Many many brides didn't like not knowing who would be doing the shooting, and as a result my friends booked 9 weddings from their first bridal show.

I don't think that just by accepting every couple they see that they will neccessarily prosper from that. They obviously have a lot of photographers, and if there packages are low to begin with, that means they aren't paying the photogs that much and who knows the kind of work they'll get. It will be intresting to see where they are at a year from now.


Their handaway at the show, they "forgot" to put the cd in

Cause he's a business guy. I think of premier as the best also, not the most busy! He thinks they'll be making the most money, and therefore 'premier'. (He's a manager, so he thinks volume is a good thing.) We made a bet actually. I bet him that if they didn't change a few things they'd implode before three years. He thinks they'll be the busiest in 3. Who knows. That's why I take the pictures and he has a real job!!! HAhaha!

Kerri, I don't think iStarbuck's has anything to do with them actually booking the clients. It's just that they meet them there because it's convenient and has half way cool atmosphere. I'm pretty sure they're meeting at the hip coffee shop second.

Okay before I get lynched by the Starbucks crew ....My point is no matter where you are meeting them how do you get that many calls in the first place????

I am referring to the quote below...



"They right now are kind of in a state of shock. I admire a LOT their ability to market, but they have had problems saying no to clients wanting to book.
About 1/4 of the weddings they booked this year in year 2 were direct referrals from year 1, and the rest they booked by meeting clients at Starbucks. In between hiring and training new photographers."

My question was how does that work they give 1/4 credit to referrals and the rest they booked by meeting clients at Starbucks.

The number that sticks out for me is 15 associates. Why do they need that many shooters? 140 weddings can be handled with 5 to 7.

BTW I used to meet clients at a bagel store ( Murrays Bagel on 8th and 23rd street).

kenny

Wow. Everyone totally misunderstood what my wife was trying to ask here. It's not that we agree or disagree with Starbucks as a meeting place, it's that their quote of where they get their business from is missing an important factor. When and where to meet clients is a whole 'nother biz philosophy discussion...

They said they get "1/4 of their clients from referrals and the other 3/4 come from meetings at Starbucks."

Well, Starbucks is certainly not giving them the leads - we want to know where are they getting the other 3/4 leads from?

Do they have print ads? Internet ads? Mass mailing? Paper under windwhield wipers? Sandwich board on a corner? Blimp? Skywriting?

They obviously have a lot of traffic to their office either by phone or email - where is that traffic coming from?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Then why not email them, and let us all in on the secret.

BINGO!!!

LOL We meet our clients at Barnes and Noble, Starbucks or wherever else is handy. It works, strangely enough.

I'd personally cry (a LOT) if we booked 100+ weddings this year. At ANY price.

hmm I know a photographer who shoots around 70 weddings a year by himself, and shoots film no less. He also fulfull his own orders and his far from being a budget photographer...so I guess it can be done with just a couple

+1 yes

Neither. I'm just curious how in their first year they got like 100 brides. Like what, did they go knock on the door of every person in Seattle getting married? It just seems like an outrageous number, and it intrigues me what their marketing strategies were.

I don't know why this came to mind....

Navin For one dollar I'll guess you weight, your height, or your sex. The most exciting thing on the midway. Imagine the thrill of getting your weight guessed by a professional. You can blow up your cheeks, you can stick out your chest, but you're not going to fool the guesser. How about you sir? Step right up!
Carnival Rube Hey honey, let's see how good this guy is. What'd I win?
Navin Uh, anything in this general area right in here. Anything below the stereo and on this side of the bicentennial glasses. Anything between the ashtrays and the thimble. Anything in this three inches right in here in this area. That includes the Chiclets, but not the erasers.
Carnival Rube No sir! Come on honey! He thought he had a rube.
Navin Frosty, I'm no good at this.
Frosty Aw come on Navin, you're doing fine.
Navin I've already given away eight pencils, two hoola dolls and an ashtray and I've only taken in fifteen dollars.
Frosty Navin, you have taken in fifteen dollars and given away fifty cents worth of crap, which gives us a net profit of fourteen dollars and fifty cents.
Navin Ah! It's a profit deal! Takes the pressure off! Get your weight guessed right here! Only a buck! Actual live weight guessing! Take a chance and win some crap!

100 weddings at $5000? I wouldn't cry too much. And if I did, it'd be tears of joy!

(don't worry for $500,000 we'd hire someone to clean the house and they could wipe your tears away too while cleaning around our tired corpses!)

M

There are a lot of comments saying they can't be making money & that high volume doesn't work.

If you take out the cost of proofs & credits, they are generating $200-$300 per hour.
If you average all packages you get 6 hours.

140 weddings x 6 hours = 840 hours.
840 hours x $200 = 168,000.00
840 hours x $300 = 252,000.00

Lets pretend they pay their photographers $50 per hour.

So they will be making from $126,000.00 to $210,000.00, even if they never personally pick up a camera.

That is a deal that I would take. They have low overhead ( I am sure that starbucks pays their own electricity). Even it they are spending 10% of profit on marketing they are doing okay.

Any additional print or album income is gravy.