The hubs is tired of me hogging the computer for my photography business stuff so I've got the green light to get myself a laptop. Yay! Only problem - I have no idea what kind, brand, anything to get. I definitely know I want a PC (sorry Mac users!) but I need it for internet, some photo editing (needs to be able to run PS easily w/o hanging up), music, easily connect external hard drive to, good screen, burn CDs and DVDs, etc. Anyone have any suggestions? Oh, I need it to be around the $600-$700 range.

That's going to be a tough price range for a speedy laptop with plenty of RAM. Have you priced one at Dell?

I have a circa 2005 Dell (Latitude) laptop which runs a little slowly with Lightroom, but does an admirable job with Photoshop. It does all the things you listed, but the internal DVD burner is rather slow.

Newer laptops will certainly be faster, but you'll still be hampered by slower processors and less RAM inherent with laptops. Does it HAVE to be a laptop? Do you need to be mobile? If not, you could easily get a respectable desktop in that price range.

My biggest problem with buying a PC now would be Vista. I hear it is a nightmare.

So true. I have a friend that wanted to save $$ and decided to get a PC for which she paid like $600, but it came with Vista and she had nothing but problems. She got the machine from Circuit City, fought with it for a little over 2 weeks, couldn't even install her Samsung printer, even after downloading drivers, she tried to take it back, but CC has a 14-day return policy. She sold it to a cousin and got the 20" iMac and is happy as can be. Not saying that you should get a Mac, only that you should expect to have a boat load of problems with Vista. Check HP or Dell, or others, but I think I have seen some that offer XP installed as an option instead of Vista. If you find one of those, that may be a better choice. Best of luck!

For that price, you can get a decent machine that will do some of your work, be portable, and free up the desktop. You would not want to use it as your primary machine, though, and hubby might be better off planning on using that so that you can use the desktop where the real work gets done.

I have a 15" HP which is about two years old now which was $600 at the time. Runs CS3 and LR2 just fine, although definitely slower than my desktop. Nice to be able to take it places. HP generally has a built in card reader as a standard feature, which is really nice, although won't do you any good if you are a Canon shooter (I bought an adapter). For my next laptop, I may look at Dell's XPS line, although that's more than you are talking.

I have Vista on two machines and it's fine. Some things are a lot better than XP; some are just eye candy.

Ohhh, forget a PC, get a MacBook. You will LOVE it!!!!!

Sorry, had to throw that in

Hugh

I might end up in the minority on this one but I actually love Vista. never had any problems with mine. I have it on both my desktop and my laptop.

+1. If there is ANY chance you could make the transition ( I did it a little over a year ago and NEVER looked back....) Macbook pro all the way.

I would go Dell for a PC option. They always did me good.

This one fits the budget and probably would do fine with PS and LR.
FWIW my old laptop is a Dell with Windows XP and it chugged along for the last 3 years, but when my MBP came into our home life has been so choice.

That's a good find, but the 5400 rpm drive could be a little frustrating. 7200 rpm would be better, if possible.

Honestly, spend the little extra bit and get a MacBook. Or if you can swing it, a MacBook pro (buy a refurbished one even, they rock!) You can get one with a 7200rpm hard drive, or put one in for about $120... the macbooks are VERY easy to install drives in - you unscrew 3 screws, pull a tab, unscrew 4 more screws, screw them back into the new drive, push it in and re-screw the 3 screws. The Hitachi 7K320 (7200rpm 320gb 2.5") laptop drive is amazing - I just put one in my macbook pro and it was a sweeeet performance upgrade.

If you're using a laptop for your photography business, get a mac. There's really no reason not to. You can transfer your photoshop license over to mac for no charge (call adobe and ask for a cross-platform upgrade) and most if not all of your other programs (depending on what you use) will run on a mac. No vista, no windows, no annoying PC things happening.

So yeah +1 for get a mac. It's the best decision I ever made after being the most stubborn PC-centric person ever. I'll never go back... and neither do most mac converts.

The problem is going to be cost. Especially when you say "Good Screen" Good screen for editing and working on (Matte Finish and Higher Resolution) on any new laptop is going to be tough to find without the super GLOSSY screens. You may have to raise your price range to get what you want. I suggest Dell Small Business Refurb. You can get XP and some decent machines.

Vista may be nice, but it IS SLOWER. Period. They have run numerous studies on Vista vs. XP when running applications such as Word, Photoshop, etc... and in the best case scenario, Vista was 50% slower. If I wanted 50% slower, I could just buy an older PC with slower hardware for way cheaper.

Anyway... that's my thoughts on it. BTW, I am running a Dell Precision Mobile Workstation M90 that is just fine...although to be fair, it will be my last PC ever since I intend on switching to Mac =)

Also the things that can be upgraded later without too much hassle are hard drives and RAM.

Wow!! Thanks so much everyone for the quick responses. Honestly, I'd love to get a Mac (I've heard they're sooo much easier to use w/o all the bugs that PCs have) but they're very pricey for my budget!

That laptop at Costco looks like a pretty good deal. Thanks for the link!

Should I definitely go with an Intel Core Duo processor or does it even matter anymore? (Can you tell I haven't shopped for computers in a long time?) =)

I recommend a Dell.

While you can find good prices on HP and Compaq, they are made with the cheapest components available. My wife's hard drive has crashed twice in the last six months. We have also had problems with an HP desktop that is at our house.

Disclosure: I'm a dell affiliate and get deals emailed to me daily. Here's a link to get you $140 off an Dell Inspiron laptop.

http://www.kqzyfj.com/click-2745949-10566872

Sean

Core duo is the only option with macs. YES it matters. You can get a macbook for about $300 more than you said earlier - $1000 will get you a very usable laptop, WITH core2 duo processor (it has two processor cores on one chip - more processing power for multi-tasking and running processor-intensive applications)

Go and check out this macbook: http://store.apple.com/us/product/FB403LL/A?mco=MjE0NDk5Mw 2.4ghz core2 Duo, 2gb RAM (can be upgraded to 3gb for a whopping $70.00 if you want, somewhere down the road) A 160gb 5400RPM drive, which can be upgraded (eventually, when you feel like it) to a 320gb 7200rpm drive for about $120, 8x superdrive (DVD+CD Burning) and um... Mac OS X.... doesn't get much better than that for the money!

Really... even you said it yourself, the choice should be easy. I know the money's hard to "justify" but just wait until you make the switch - you'll hardly remember that you even paid for the thing because you'll be so happy.

PS I'm not an apple affiliate and I make no money from recommending apple products - I do it for the good of humanity

Think of it this way: if you go PC and aren't super PC savvy, you are going to have to get a new system in 3 years or so with average use and transport. A Mac will run better and last another year or more with that. Economically it makes more sense.

Additionally, most of the basic software comes free with OS X, the Apple operating system.

Amazing. A little more expense now, easier use and longer life. You will jump with joy when you realize the goodness that is Apple. (I was a PC user for 21 years...no longer...)

Great way to look at it. AND you don't have to buy things like MS Office - you can use free opensource (AMAZING!) software like NeoOffice for your word processing/spreadsheet needs.

Also, yes, I recommend getting AppleCare. It's a 3 year warranty (service and parts) that will cost about $200 for a laptop. The best part is though, you don't need to buy it right away. Just get AppleCare within one year of purchase and you're covered. SOOO worth it should you ever have an issue (which you most likely won't)

+1 from me too! and I also use to be a huge PC user, but I will never look back....


plus! you can run windows on it and have the best of both worlds!

So, am I over the limit, if I still edit on a Powerbook G4 I bought in 2003?

Seriously.

Get a Mac - I still use mine, 5 years later. (A MBP is in the works soon though - the G4 just can't do Lightroom, and that's a deal-breaker.)

Dude those things have got to be the longest-lasting friggin laptops on earth! Hahaha.

I use a PowerMac G4 Quicksilver as a server in my studio. It's what, like 5, 6 years old now, runs 24/7 with 2.5TB worth of hard drives in it without missing a beat!

OK, well now that the Fruit People have chimed in, let me say that I have the best laptop I've ever had right now. I've only had it 5.5 months but it is the best machine performance wise I've had. It's a HP that I bought when my 4.5 year old Toshiba finally had it's first problem. I was in Mobile Alabama and had to have something to work with right then. I shopped Sam's and Best Buy and bought the beefiest one they had. It was about $1000. This one has Vista, and I wasn't thrilled because like the folks talking here, I had only heard stuff, and didn't have first hand experience. Vista is fine. It's got some cool stuff, and is not slow. In fact it's faster on this machine than Xp Pro is on my desktop. This one is the DV6700 and has the T8100 Core 2 Duo processor and 3G's of Ram. Vista needs 3G's to run. It runs LR2 and CS3 fine. I use a Passport drive with it and it connects to my projector running ProSelect fine too. The CD/DVD drive is good. I haven't timed it but I'm not in a hurry burning disks most days anyway.

I had a Dell desktop before the HP I have now and it is still running in the sales room at 5 years old. I just don't seem to have the issues that Mac folks want to believe all PC's have. I don't defrag, or do any disk utility stuff really, but I do run AVG and SpyBot S&D.

Here's the one I got.

My husband is an apple technician at a computer repair center for Best Buy here in KY. He spends 8 hours a day repairing hardware for macs, imacs, macbook pros, etc, and all the hardware (RAM, processors, hard drives, intel chip sets) are all identical to PC. The only difference in Apple and PC is the operating system. If you like OS X go with Apple, if you like XP or Vista go with PC. More or less, you're getting the same computer....the only difference is how it looks on the outside and the price you pay. I use PC, but I'm sure I'd like Mac just the same.

If you do get a Mac expect to pay a ton in repair costs if you need it fixed out of warranty....he just replaced an iMac hard drive out of warranty and had to charge the customer almost 500 bucks. YIKES.

Uhhhh sorry, but it's best buy you're talking about here. 500 BUCKS FOR A FREAKING HARD DRIVE? Do you have any idea how ridiculous that is? That is the most horrible freakin' example of mac repair costs I have EVER seen, and yet ANOTHER reason why I DESPISE BEST BUY. Freakin rapists. Seriously - don't post crap like that when it's blown way out of proportion by a company like best buy. Joe Schmoe can replace his own iMac hard drive for about $120 (for a 1TB drive) and about 10 minutes.

Seriously people... oh god... I'm going to stop now.

there is a wonderful invention sweeping the nation too called an apple retail store - http://www.apple.com/retail/ Any problems i've had with my apple products have been fixed there for $0 even if it was out of warranty pretty awesome!

best buy would not be the first place i'd take a mac to get fixed, even if there is no apple store close I would still quicker send it in to apple for repair than take it to best buy. I like best buy but not for repair :-/. Its probably fair to say too that if the same problems occurred with a PC you would be paying a similar rate at best buy.

What he said... except for liking best buy. Amazon's my friend

HAHAHA. This makes me laugh and cry. Laugh at the guy who paid the $500 and cry that people think this is the way it is.

To say that they are more or less the same is funny. The OS has HUGE impact on operation and speed. Yes the hardware is the same. It's like saying Jessica Claire and I are the same really because hardware wise we have the same gear. The brains behind it all makes a world of difference.

As for XP vs. Vista, just go look at what Microsoft says. What is required to run Vista? What is required to run XP? There is a reason Vista needs so much more power (4x power last I checked). It does much more at the OS which steals cycles and memory from what you really want to be doing. I could go on and on about performance benchmarks in Photoshop, Excel, etc... Anyway... rant over.

Buy Mac. If you can't, get a small biz Dell with XP. Latitudes and Precision Workstations are good laptops. They won't be loaded down with bloatware and the customer support is in America.

amazon is my friend too.. PRIME BABY!! PRIME!! :-)

I have had great results from Dell laptops, I use a 4 year old 700m, and it is going strong.

Go to Dell Small Business Outlet. Then click on "Business-Class Latitude", and specify Win XP Pro and filter the results:

http://www.dell.com/content/products/categ...&lid=301685

Here is a 15.4" example for $659.00 - This is the same Core 2 Duo that Apple uses in the Macbook for twice the cost. I would recommend getting the 3 or 4 year warranty with the Dell or any other laptop.


Latitude D830
(System Identifier: DDB323ZE)

* Latitude D830 Laptop: Intel Core 2 Duo T7300 (2.00GHz) 4M L2 Cache, 800Mhz Dual Core
* Genuine Windows XP Pro

System Price : $659.00

Operating System
Genuine Windows XP ProMemory
1 GB DDR2 SDRAM 667MHz (2 DIMMs)Hard Disk Drive
80 GB SATA Hard Drive (7200 RPM)Video
Intel Integrated Graphics Media Accelerator X3100Hardware Upgrade
No Floppy Drive
9 Cell Primary Battery
90W AC AdapterCertified Refurbished
Certified RefurbishedBase
Latitude D830 Laptop: Intel Core 2 Duo T7300 (2.00GHz) 4M L2 Cache, 800Mhz Dual CoreMedia Bay
24X CD RW/DVD Combo DriveNetwork Interface Card
1390 Wireless CardLaptop Screen
15.4 WXGA Laptop Screen


http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3857

-------------

Also if you can get away with a slower laptop (Core Duo), the Lenovo T60 with the 15.4" screen has the only IPS screen available in a laptop. This will help tremendously with editing photos on the laptop. You will need to get it on eBay though.

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?...o+ThinkPad+T60p

I have an Acer Aspire that I've had great luck with. 2 years old, dual core, I upgraded to 2GB ram when I bought it. Still flies. We have an old dell, it was fine, and lasted pretty well (bought it back in 2001, retired it about a year ago). Dell always seems overpriced for what you get though, they are great at add-ons.

I have both a Vista and an Ubuntu hard drive for my acer, but I haven't put the vista hard drive in for at least 3 months.

Definitely go dual core, get 2 or 4gb ram. If you can find one with a 7200 RPM hard drive, that makes it much faster, but it's not a show stopper. You can always upgrade that later (mine takes 4 screws to remove).

Hardware wise, yes, the macs and pcs are the same, for all practical purposes. Macs generally only use the high quality parts, while some budget PCs use (duh) cheap parts. You're paying for the OS (and apparently the right to tell people they should get a mac when they ask about a PC LOL). A comparably equipped PC will pretty much cost the same as the mac.

As far as speed, I did a side by side with CS3 on my 2gb laptop and a similar macbook, and they were neck and neck. With some filters, Vista would actually be faster. Macs generally boot faster, and are more stable with multitasking. (Of course, ubuntu is sweet too, if you want to be a linux rebel like me! LOL)

What are you planning to use the computer for? Web surfing, email, actual editing? How big of a screen are you looking for? I can give you some links if you want.

Shan

Wow, I hope I didn't kick all of this off with my earlier post.

Anyway, I have been using Macs since 1987 - that's a long time. I have also used PC's and sorry, but to me there is absolutely no comparison. In my home, between my wife and I, there is:

MacPro tower with 23inch Mac monitor.
24 inch iMac (2 months old)
15 inch MacBook Pro
15 inch Powermac
4 iPhones
Apple TV
3 iPods.
Airport Extreme

and an iPod for every bride and groom we shoot!

I am a BIG Apple fan! I walked into the Apple store about 2 weeks ago and said that my iPhone seemed to have froze up a couple of times, and it is now over a year old. The swapped it out for a new one, no questions asked. Try doing that in Best Buy after over a year.

How about this - how many people would stand up and say, as several have in this thread alone, "I switched to Mac and never looked back".

Now, how many people made the transition from Mac to PC???? If there are any, did they stay with PC's, and are they as elated as the Mac switchers?

Just a thought.

Hugh

Oh yes, and all those issues about price difference? That falls down when you consider how little you get with a PC. A Mac is ready to rock and roll out of the box.

I think this is deserving:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRn5-LQCg2s

I think I've laughed as much as I've gone "hmmm, something to think about." You guys are passionate about this issue aren't you?

Right now I have PSE7 (I know!!! Budget, people!) It keeps freezing up on my 1gb RAM, Pentium 4 desktop so I know I want something fast that has at least 2-3gb RAM. A decent hard drive (80-128 gb) is fine because it'll be hooked up to a portable external HD after a while.

I've actually discussed the Mac with my husband but even if he wanted to pay that much for a laptop (which he won't) I don't think I could. That's a lot of money that could be spent on toys (or clothes) for my kids or new camera equip. for me. =)

After a bit of searching, this one looks like it would fit the bill: Any opinions?
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?sk...d=1210378661986

I would not get Windows Vista, if you go through Dell Business, or Dell Outlet you can get XP Pro pre-installed. Also I recommend more than 1 year warranty, at least 3. It is easy and less expensive to add more RAM yourself.

Seriously, you're talking about 300 bucks more that will last you a good 3 years more than any PC laptop... THINK ABOUT IT. It amazes me that people don't think long term with computers... funny how apple has changed that for so many people, and yet many who are stuck on PCs still don't get it... until they switch.

Mac (here's why):

• No upgrading needed - it's perfect right out of the box
• No Vista - OSX is rock solid
• Built in Mail programs
• Built in Web Browsers
• MADE FOR ARTISTS
• Fast
• don't need to worry about installing drivers
• iTunes while you work
• you can make a slideshow or movie in 3-clicks
• great screens
• amazing battery life
• lightning fast
• you can get a discount if you are a student

WOAH. I didn't post my reply so I could get attacked. I'm neutral equipment wise. Did you miss the part where I said "I use PC but I'm sure I'd like Mac just the same". And sorry that I was unaware that Best Buy 'rapes' their customers on repair charges compared to other repair centers. I've never had to pay for computer repairs in my life. If I ever wanted something fixed, the hubby would fix it for me. I just posted the info that I had because I wanted to help Jenney with her decision. If she gets better information from someone else, than great. Holy cow. LOL Sometimes you guys are really mean and rude about expressing a difference of opinion.

And addressing the comments about the people who actually paid that price for repairs....if anyone out there is dumb enough to pay that much, I guess I'm glad for it because that's how I have a roof over my head. Geeeeezzz.

Um, you realize that that is pretty much all true for any laptop, right? (Ok, so you get Vista - have you actually used it? Seriously, I'm so tired of hearing how it's the worst thing ever..... )



Yeah Courtney, anything negative about Mac or positive about a chain retail store (Best Buy, Walmart, take your pick) and some people act like you're sadly uninformed about how "true" artists work.

Plain old snobbery, IMHO.

Took a look, that's a nice computer. The big selling point for that one is the firewire port.

If you don't have (or need) a firewire port, you could get a better deal here:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Se...AIN#detailspecs

$100 less, more memory, and rated slightly faster. It's refurbished, but comes with a full warranty.
The extended warranty is only $160 extra, which is always a good idea if you're planning on carrying it with you often.

Then again, having one from Best Buy would be a good if you have problems, you can always take it back into the store (rather than have to send it in to Tiger Direct).

Just food for thought!

Shan

Not to sound like a complete idiot, but what's a "firewire port"? I'm telling you last time I shopped for computers the Pentium 2 had just come out. LOL

And I do like the idea of having somewhere local I can take it to get it fixed if I need to. I have a guy that can fix desktops for me but he doesn't work on laptops.

Thanks again, everyone, for all of your help!

(And I'm really sorry if anyone has been offended by anything started in this thread. That certainly wasn't my intention!) Can't we all just get along? =)

Courtney,

Sorry I jumped on you like that. It isn't needed for an Open forum like that. Bad mood in real world creeped into the OSP world. I'm sorry I handled it poorly. I do still disagree with your statements, and that is all I should have said originally. Once again, sorry about that.



Shan,

I don't think all of the comments were this mentality. I got upset because some of Courtney's statements were false and misleading. I didn't handle my answer well, but the OP deserved to know the facts. There is nothing wrong with a PC. Many people are going to be just fine using them. I am not a Mac crazy person. I use my Dell Laptop and it runs as fast as any MBP I have seen recently. I still think the Mac is a better product, but there are some vendors out there that have quality PCs and back it up with warranties and service like Dell Small Biz.

I personally would prefer to just have Linux. Are you running Photoshop and LR in Ubuntu?

firewire is a Highspeed device connection port, similar to USB but much faster. It's typically used for external hard drives, audio and video devices.

No hard feelings, I appreciate the reply.
However, I don't feel like any of my comments were false.
Its true a lot of the hardware is the same. And its true that choosing a PC or Mac is a personal preference based on which operating system you like best because most of the hardware is all the same anyway. (I'm one of the few that actually likes Vista. Its never given me problems. But again, I'm sure I'd like Mac too if I could afford it. Maybe one day...)

It was also true that my husband did replace a hard drive for 500 dollars. So, my comments on the repairs were just limited (not wrong). It was limited to what I knew about Best Buy's repair charges versus everyone else. The only thing that I did wrong was assume that everyone might charge the same. Which was apparently not the smartest thing to assume. I guess we all know what they say about people who assume....

Thanks! That's something I would like to have, then, since it'll be transferring files back and forth to external hard drives and memory cards.

Apparently, I need to spend some time in a computer store learning what everything is. =)

Chris,
I know they weren't all of that mentality, but many were. You have to admit, some people have had more than their share of the kool-aide!
I agree that macs offer a better overall experience. The are both the software and hardware vendor, so there's no "passing the buck". If there's a problem, they take care of it - and that's the big benefit of the macs. Windows, on the other hand, can be thrown on just about any POS that someone can cobble together. This is where windows gets a bad reputation, and there's just as much FUD thrown at PCs as there is at Macs. It's not hard to switch to a mac, but a pc isn't worthless junk either. There are things a PC can do that a mac can't (and running windows on a mac, sorry - that's still windows! LOL)

I like linux, mainly because it's the best of both worlds to me (and the worst, sometimes!). I get a rock stable OS on any hardware I choose. Of course, there are limitations!

I'm actually running bibble pro. I have PS installed with wine, but I rarely use it anymore - I've actually gotten used to gimp. Of course, with bibble, I hardly touch photoshop or gimp either.

No hard feelings on my end though!

Jenney -
One thing about the firewire port - it is hardware based speed, where USB can be limited by software. Side by side, firewire will almost (if not always) be faster, and definitely more consistent.

Shan

Yep, you'll want firewire definitely. All macs have firewire, except for the brand new macbooks (which you don't want anyway - get a previous generation one or a macbook pro)



It's called an Apple Store and they'll take care of you better than anyone. Seriously, never have I seen a sales team as educated in the products that they sell, and never have I seen a sales team that cares as much about their customers as Apple does. Go to an Apple store, hang out as long as you want, play with the toys and ask all of the questions you want (seriously!) and you won't feel like you're burdening them at all - because you aren't! They're there to help you understand the most about which machine will work best for you. THEN, go to the apple store online, check out their refurbished section and pick yourself up a white or black macbook. You won't regret it. Of course if you ever have any mac questions that you feel can be answered here, feel free to ask me or any of the other mac nuts here on the forum and we'll be happy to help I get about 3-5 messages a day from OSPers looking for help with mac stuff, whether it's buying, troubleshooting, upgrading or whatever. I'm always happy to assist.

Seriously...you have almost got me convinced to purchase a mac!!! I haven't asked you much directly, but I have gotten a lot of useful info from the posts you have made. Thanks so much for all the time you have invested in this community.

Laurie

How can he sleep at night?

laurie, feel free to message me sometime. if you want to chat I can set up a time for you to give me a call and I'll be happy to answer any questions you have.

I'm glad I've been so indirectly helpful! haha



My thought exactly.

Well geez, its not like he did it because he wanted to!
He doesn't make up the prices, he just does the repairs. He works for the Geek Squad and that's just their price list. I'm thinking as long as they are giving him a paycheck (especially in THIS ECONOMY!) he just does what he's told. Nothing wrong with that. He'll find a better job later but we gotta get the bills paid somehow.
We can pay our house payment so therefore he sleeps just fine.

Don't get me wrong, I totally understand where you are coming from with doing what are assigned to do in order to keep a paycheck, but morally.....it just makes me sick to take advantage of people who don't know any better.

I don't think I could do it.

Are you guys really that snobby? We're not wealthy people..we are just regular people just trying to get by, like many other people in this country right now. If a company wants to pay him to replace the hard drives, he's going to do it. Let me reiterate, he DOESN'T create the price lists...its not like he's MR. BEST BUY or anything. And if someone is actually willing to pay that, why should he sleep any worse at night when because of it, he can afford to pay his bills?
Wow.



Tell me that when you're unemployed for 6 months going on interview after interview. You take what you can get.