Hey everyone,

I just commissioned a local (SB) musician to create an original music piece for my website. I've been trying to figure out for the past year or so what music to include on my website and how to do it legally. I settled on some royalty free stuff from Apple which was ok but really didn't capture what I was looking for.

Finally, I came across Dan Bos. I knew his work was good but I was skeptical that he'd come up with anything I'd really be impressed by.

Well, rather than me go off on my opinion, I'd really appreciate it if you guys would be open to telling me what you think. Check out: http://www.danesanders.com.

The music is streaming so you may need to load it once and then reload the page to get the timing perfect, but regardless, I'd LOVE to know your thoughts.

Working with Dan was amazing. He truly loves his craft and I found him to be remarkably humble and honest. A true artist!

In addition to your feedback, if anyone is interested in finding out more about Dan or perhaps even getting him to do some work for you, please let me know so I can put you in touch with him. Not that he needs it, but I'd love to support him (and you guys!!) in anyway that I can. You won't be sorry.

Again, in hiring him, he created an original work that I have unlimited exclusive rights to. No copyright concerns ever. For all of us who are concerned about people not stealing our images, I think we need to support guys like Dan (and musicians in general) who don't want their music stolen either. And, Dan is a freakin' bargain!

Let me know. -ds

The music is great, Dane! Music was a big deal for me too as we are getting ready finish our new and updated website (I'll let you all know when it's up). As of right now, I also have just gone to a website and purchased royalty-free music - The Music Bakery . I had talked to a friend about doing some music, but hasn't worked out as of right now.

The song you've got on your site sounds like it should have lyrics. You should encourage Dan to have lyrics put to it and then sell the version with the lyrics on your site for .99 a download - maybe something brides would want to use on their wedding day...

Your site is really nice! Have you updated it (besides the music) as well? It seemed different since the last time I had looked...

Nathan

Forgot to ask... Are you able to let us know what kind of price range we're talking about if we wanted to talk to Dan about doing something for our site? And secondly, how long did it take for him to complete the song and have it ready for you?

Nathan

Dane - You're site is so sweet! The layout is clean and fresh with beautiful photography (obviously). The music fits your site perfectly. It adds some depth to the images and experience. Nice job.

Kurt

Thanks for the props you guys. I really appreciate it.

Nathan, I spoke with Dan and he said he'd be willing to come up with an original score, offer exclusive rights and do it all for $1000. The turn around time was what was most amazing to me. From first conversation to getting it online, I had it done in two weeks.

It was so great to work with another artist who takes his work as seriously as the folks on this forum do. I kind of wish he was a photographer. He'd be a great addition to our community.

Anyway, in the same way that I don't mind getting paid appropriately, I would love to see Dan get compensated decently for what he does. It would be a solid investment. He even hired a separate voice talent just to get the right lyric vibe for the site (and he wrote the lyric). Then he recorded it both ways. He is so great to work with. My sense is that hiring a commercial talent like his in LA would not even be feasible. I'm just stoked I met him.

If you're wanting to go for it with your site, I'd totally recommend him. I'm sure too that if price were an issue, he'd be willing to negotiate. He's just that kind of guy. I hope this helps.

Dane!

That new music is sweet! You've outdone yourself again! Great job! WOW!

$1000 is pretty standard for that sort of thing and your music was well worth it! I love how it goes right with the images - sweet!

Cheers!
DJ

Thanks DJ. I've gotten a lot of really kind feedback about the site and I'm confident the feel of it thanks to things like the music is really enhancing people's experience of my work. Your encouragement means a lot! Thanks again.

On a personal note, I can also vouch that Dan Boss is an extremely talented musician, not to mention an awesome person.

l highly recommend working with him. You won't regret it.

Dane.... That song is awesome... If I wasn't putting so much money into gear right now I would definitely look into getting a song for him on my new website, but as of right now I'm trying to get some much needed gear for new shoots and such.. so that comes first!

--- Gregg

....now that you have music for your site you can also have your very own custom music player! I just updated ours and it's fully customizable to you!

Be sure to log on and check it out! www.davidjay.com - you can even move it around! Pretty cool!

David,
Really incredible how you have the music menu set up! I noticed the Jim Brickman song... The first time my wife and I ever went on a date alone was to a Jim Brickman Christmas concert
Did you have to get permission to use his song on your site, or how does that work?

Nathan

I went to a Jim Brickman concert back in the day with one of my dearest ex's Her name was Saxon and she was a sweet little thing! 5 ft nothin and absolutely gorgeous!

That's a really good point....does anyone know what the copyright issues are with using other people's music on your website??

Chris --- Yeah... I'd definitely like to find that out, because if I can I'd love to use a song by Celldweller (www.celldweller.com) on my new site.

--- Gregg

alrighty then that's 3 people who want to know.....any takers?

DJ?

Don't kill the messenger ... but here's the lowdown from legal council ... seriously, I just asked a lawyer on this moments ago ...

She said it is absolutely illegal to use someone else's music as a means to enhance our sites without permission from the copyright holder. It would be like someone using one of our images without our permission or compensation to enhance their business web site. As we're constantly trying to make our business better, my encouragement would be for all of us to consider honoring our colleague artists by either getting permission, paying compensation or coming up with some other legal means to enhance our sites.

One challenge has been not knowing where to go if you want to get licensing appropriately.

I just found out (from the same lawyer who told me all this) that a good place to start is here: http://www.harryfox.com/public/licenseHome.jsp where you can pay royalty fees for use of music. I checked it out quickly and it looked like everytime the music is streamed by someone, you'd pay about 8.5 cents which, as you might imagine, adds up VERY QUICKLY.

Another way to look at it would be to say that the $1000 dollars you might pay someone like Dan Bos would quickly pay for itself after 11,764 hits to your site. To put that into context, I've had 9,814 hits so far this month and my site has pretty modest traffic.

I hope this helps.

Stoked to be a part of a community where we're not afraid to ask the hard questions! You guys rock!!

Post script ... another option is simply to contact the publisher of the music and request licensing. It never hurts to ask. I've done it before and received permission from a main line artist. The really big names though are often part of companies that make these decisions for them and often you end up paying some sort of royalty, which certainly is reasonable.

Dane is right and here's the info we just sent out to a couple of labels in an attempt to legalize our site. Music is like any copyrighted thing - it's owned by someone and if you wanna use it you're probably gonna have to pay for it. Are they going to take you straight to jail or even fine you for a first time offense - probably not...but I think we all agree that's not the issue.

Here ya go:

• The timing or duration of the song;

• The visuals accompanying the song;

• Where your production will be seen and for how long (1-time, 1 year, etc)

• The titles of other songs you plan to use, particularly if you have already gotten permission.

• If you have no budget for clearance, say so in your letter.

• Provide the publisher with an address, phone fax or e-mail so they can reply quickly.

Also... just an FYI - hits on sites don't account for separate streams so the final price might not be as high under the 8.5c deal...but I hope there's a better way to negotiate it than paying per stream.

... ... all in good fun Dane!

QUOTE

RIAA Sues Deceased Grandmother Monday, February 07 @ 05:00:00 PST BetaNews is reporting that the RIAA has filed a suit against an elderly woman who passed away in December. She is accused of sharing 700 rock and rap songs. The Recording Industry Association of America admitted that Walton was likely not the person they were after, blaming the mixup on the time it takes gather information on illicit file swappers. "Our evidence gathering and our subsequent legal actions all were initiated weeks and even months ago," said RIAA spokesman Jonathan Lamy. "We will now, of course, obviously dismiss this case." As BetaNews points out, several people are using this scenario as an example of what’s fundamentally wrong with the RIAA's tactics.

I love it! That's freakin' hilarious.

Well, actually it's a bit sad and rediculous ... but hilarious too!

Truth is I went after that same grandma. I was convinced she stole my schnazzeee avatar that David Jay took of me that I never gave him credit for.

She got away with it though.

What if I take a music sheet of any known artist, play it on a piano (ie. happy birthday), record myself, make that into mp3 and use it on my website???

My understanding is that there's two issues going on: (1) who wrote the song and (2) who created the latest version of that song. I'm pretty sure both parties need to sign off on it to make it legal. Oftentimes (1) and (2) are the same person except when it's a cover of a song. That's why people pay other artists to cover their song. It costs less than having the original artist perform it but costs nonetheless.

... or you could just hire Dan Bos and be both (1) and (2) and have others come to you begging for permission to use your song:-).

Sorry, but who's Dan Bos? (interested)

Check out the first post in this thread. Let me know if I can explain anything else. I'd be happy to!

Sent ya PM Dane! Thanks!

Check out Dan Bos' new site here if you're interested: TrueToneProductions
Not that it will get you anywhere but feel free to tell 'em I sent 'ya.

Have a good one!

QUOTE

feel free to tell 'em I sent 'ya.

Good point Dane!

This is something we should ALWAYS be doing ALL the time. I've discovered that many people don't share this info unless asked. Always try and make a connection for people! If someone passed along the name of a good product or person and you go to purchase it or talk to them let them know who sent you. It's good for everyone and it helps significantly in building relationships!

DJ...is that the same guy that did the music on your site?

No, DJ's roommate remixed that track. I forget where it originally came from....

Dan Bos designed the music for Dane's site and mine, but i don't think anyone else's on the forum....you should get him!

Wow...ok. I'm seriously working on my site. Do you think he could incorporate mello violin music with his guitar? I was going to record a demo of me playing but I would love it if he could do something along with my sound.

I think he would work with that. Talk to him.

dan@truetoneproductions.com

Dan is super gifted. He has a very distinct sound but loves to get creative and is remarkably open to others input as he builds his art.

Tell the truth ... who's got the better signature Dan Bos ... me or musicman?? J/K

Hey Dane...I already emailed you and told you what I thought about your site. didn't you get it? I can't believe it made me cry late that night...I just had to email you at that beautiful moment!!! (sorry if I was too mushy)

KK

I wish I got it!!! You're too kind to me KK. Thanks so much for going the extra mile to let me know. You're great!

Dane..you mean you didn't get it?

I was having a really bad hormonal moment...and I was just visiting sites here and there and decided to check yours out. Dane..to tell you the honest truth...your site brought me to another level and re-inspired me as a photographer. You are sooo the man....

KK

I didn't get it, but after that post, I'm glad I didn't! Thank you. I'm sure it was more hormones than anything else, but I'll take the encouragement anyway you want to give it!! Again, thanks KK.

I'm actually in the middle of a quick update on my site. Can I run it by you once it's retooled a bit?

music license questions:

if you wish to use anyone's intellectual property you must obtain a proper license for your usage intentions.

just like our intellectual property.


how would you feel if u2 was using your photographs on their site. they would be promiting themselves with your copywritten intellectual property. wouldn't that bum you out?

whoopsy.
missed all of page two of this post which went into much more detail than my message, more tactfully too!

-g

Do you guys make and manage your own sites? I'm looking into getting some music on my site, but don't really know how all of that works. Like how large is the mp3 , is there a special way in flash, ? Also, going back to the re-mixing existing music idea, could you just alter some of the notes here and there on an existing piece, making it your own original piece? is that too close to the line of being legit? (Vanilla ice did this to Queen song, "under pressure", but i don't know if we should do it like v. ice.)

Josh

Nice recovery man! Stoked to see you on here G!

Keep in mind too that Vanilla Ice got sued ... and well ... he's vanilla ice (No offense meant ... just some cheap humor for folks still rollin' in their 5.0).

I actually don't know the rules on altering stuff to make it your own. That might be worth checking more closely and measuring how much work that would take relative to what you could hire someone to craft it for you. You might be wise to spend your pennies/energy in other ways. Just a thought.

I'm not an attorney, but I remember something about altering a piece of "intellectual property" by something like 18 to 20% and it's yours. This happens alot in editorial graphics and such, I think..

Music, more than other mediums, can get expensive! When I worked for a studio, we used a Black Eyed Peas song in a promo that only ran a handful of times, and I remeber the royalties stacking up to like $20k or something, but it's what the producer really wanted, so we paid! I also remember a story with a major theatrical musical and a local community theater performing a few songs w/o paying the royalties... they got caught randomly by a friend-of-a-friend who worked for the rights owner and that small theater never raised their curtain again.

It's something to be careful of. I remember using (and still use for some DVD projects) music from Amphonic.com and Q-Music.co.uk. It's works a lot like stock photo. Music is either rights-managed or royalty free...

........ and that's all I know.

(Btw, Dane. I love that song. It's perfect for becoming part of your "brand." I'd milk it for all you can - DVD Intros, your voicemail, etc. lol. It's your theme song, and it's good... It's already suck in my head!)