What does everyone think of Pictage?

Of course - why shouldn't we? Where are there laws saying we should not? By them hiring us to take their photos, we're not signing over to their beliefs - we are simply serving them.


Yes - it's a beautiful, precious time for a family and I know my clients want them for their sole enjoyment to look back on later. Plus, I'm female - if I were a married guy (or any guy) - probably not...guys are wired differently

I haven't had the opportunity to do a maternity shoot yet, but I do shoot tasteful FHEO - of course I have no portfolio to show for it because I don't post them or print them for the public to see - and 99% of the time they don't publicize them either.

LOL Bradd!.

As a preacher's daughter, I only ever asked my dad one question. And that was, when did we stop following the rules of the old testament? His answer was "when the temple was ripped from top to bottom as Christ died, and God became accessible to everyone individually instead of needing priests and laws and complicated atonements as a way to make us pure. Instead, Christ's death is the ultimate atonement, and we follow Christ's example and teachings, for it is through Him we are saved."

Many many people in the Christian community seem to not have heard the message of Christ!

If you view your art as a ministry and you are using their symbols & rites to make them feel more strongly connected to their religion ... well then I'm confused.

To me, this is like being friends with an alcholic. If you are friends with them, you want them to be a better person. You don't take them a drink. If you do, you're supporting their bad habits by making it easier to do that thing that you feel they should be doing even though they want to.

Similarly, if your religion doesn't support Hindus going to Heaven, wouldn't shooting beautiful photos of their personal, deeply religious service foster their relationship with their religion in a way that was harmful to their chances of getting into Heaven and by fostering those feelings aren't you helping to keep them out of Heaven?

Dude, I have a special Batphone for him - and I've been waiting my WHOLE LIFE. I think he rang once but i was in the bathroom. jk

Yes, exactly. This is how I felt at Abundant Life when they did the blessing. I've been present during similar blessings, but that one was just over the top powerful and I could just feel it all around me. I had to get out of the way of that. I knew it wasn't for me.

The thing is, I WANT to be a part of something like that. I started out my life being quietly but matter-of-factly Christian. I really admire those of you that I see here at OSP that do live the life and truly seem to have the faith. I wish I could be that way but the rest of the message I get from Church (not to be confused with Christianity itself) is one of judgement, self-righteousness, male superiority and other varied ickinesses that I just can't deal with. I feel myself drawn to the message of love and then I am repelled by the many flaws in the message bearers. Not that I have no flaws! But its like calling a dog to you with a sweet voice, petting it on the head and then turning around and beating it for staying away too long or something.

This argument/philosophy could be used in other areas.... Be careful not to contradict yourself.... Or someone else could use this same argument to make their point as well...

Why can't we all just get along?

Oops, you're right. Had no intention of bringing politics into this! LOL

lol I'm not - that's the thing. Why is anyone who questions, Anti-God? I'm not anti-God. but I have a deep personal belief that if everyone could just get to the bottom of what each other feels, we'd all have it out & be good again.



<--Sorry but you brought that on yourself.



Perception becomes reality. You can fall in love with someone and back out because you were wrong when you fell in love too. How come people are so easily out of love with their gf/bf but not with their God? Mostly cuz God lets them be. lol I have picked up a Bible more than I'd guess 90% of people. I have studied this stuff, pounded my head against it for YEARS. I have done comparative religions courses. Dated a minister long enough to enjoy those headaches. I have been a true believer and a devout atheist and sit here today as neither. I've run the gamut testing my beliefs and they keep coming back to the same place.




Can I say Amen?

(I put the following in my signature, and I'll probably change it in a week or two, so it won't be in this thread once I change it. -- I'll post it officially just so it stays in the post)

here' the quote that put religious beliefs into context for me many years ago.

Man is a Religious Animal. He is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion--several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat if his theology isn't straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother's path to happiness and heaven....The higher animals have no religion. And we are told that they are going to be left out in the Hereafter. I wonder why? It seems questionable taste.
Mark Twain- "The Lowest Animal"

Well a "Gay Wedding" is not a marriage, whether or not the VA Constitution says it is or is not.

This is turning into a political discussion, which I have no desire to get into. I answered the questions. I am not going to debate them.

Ok, here's where I come clean with my beliefs - they are surely similar to Sarah's although slightly different perspective.

If there's a room of 30 people and they close their eyes & point north, I think they'd point in every direction. And most would be wrong. The one who'd be most right would probably still be sorta wrong and just vaguely right. We'd call him the winner because he was closest.

I think everyone is seeing the SAME thing. That same "lump" in the middle that we all call religion and I think the way we all interact with it is personal, 100%. I think that if you saw the lump as a pie, the Christians would all see part of that pie - the Christianity part - and would think they were right. Now some Christians would only see the middle of that pie and others see the whole slice of Christianity. Jews would have a piece of pie that slightly overlapped the Christian piece. They see some of the same things, but they want a taste of something slightly different.

Atheists feel that their piece of pie is missing - there is no pie.

It's ALL in what you can see. If you put an elephant in a dark room & give 5 people flashlights to turn on & never move, they will come up with something different as to what is in front of them. Those with a very narrow spotlight will see a tooth and say "it's a tooth. Those with a broader spotlight may see the ear and call it an ear. Atheists point theirs at the wall and say "there's nothing here but a room!"

Does that make sense? I try to understand EVERYONE'S flashlight so that my view can be put together using more than one tiny little spotlight that I carry.

Think about it this way - what if everyone IS mostly right. And partly wrong. It explains SO MUCH of our history, our past, our future, our beliefs, EVERYTHING to me that it's a) none of the above and b) all of the above.

So that's my belief. I believe that there's as much something there as there isn't. If there's God, there's also the space around him - the space between him & us.

That's what i think - and I hope that contributes to my reasoning for the questions above. I want to know - I seek knowledge and the various different beliefs here ALL contribute to my understanding of my own religious beliefs.

What I wish is for more people to be more understanding - to see that they have an answer but even the wrong answers are part of the equation. If you have ever played Sudoku you will understand that MUCH more clearly actually!! There are things you know & feel. And things you know to be wrong. Those WRONG answers matter (in religion AND sudoku) as much as the right ones.

Now - can we all just agree nobody is going to be convinced of anything they don't already believe, stop talking about gay weddings & nudity and just go take some pretty pictures? lol

I think it takes a lot of looking to find the right place. Jesus was a loving and holy. I think a lot of people/churches get caught up with one of those things and forget the other. Either they get so caught up in holiness that they forget to be loving. Or...they get so caught up in the loving/feel good aspect that they forget about holiness. It is so important to recognize the need for and have a balance of the two.

Would love to hear what you had in mind, especially in light of my post above talking about what I believe. If I'm being inconsistent I DEFINITELY want to know.

Matt - please don't take this as an offense, Read Matthew 11:27 and Matt 7:26-27. That might clear up some of your confusion of why you are where you are. Why does God do this, I don't have an answer, but I do know that if you truly seek Him out, you'll find Him (Matt 7:7-11). It's just a matter of time. I'll pray for you and your family... I hope in your pursuit of the meaning of life, you'll find it....

EDIT: That's Matt 7:26-27 not chapter 6 (sorry my mistake)

Passage Matthew 11:27:

27 “My Father has entrusted everything to me. No one truly knows the Son except the Father, and no one truly knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”


Passage Matthew 7:26-27:
26 But anyone who hears my teaching and doesn’t obey it is foolish, like a person who builds a house on sand. 27 When the rains and floods come and the winds beat against that house, it will collapse with a mighty crash.”

I don't take offense at any open-mindedness, debate or argument. I take offense at their opposites. Closed-mindedness, unwillingness to think and lack of an argument. lol

I'll go do that reading - but if you want to cut & paste from somewhere to make sure I read the right version, go ahead.

M

My point here is this: What makes alcoholism wrong? Who says? If someone wants to do it, why should it be a concern to anyone else? The same philosophy could be used in any of the questions you've presented. You see alcoholism as wrong, someone else may not. The point is you see it as a problem, you want to help. What if others see some of the questions presented here as a problem and want to help. The problem with people calling other people intolerant is the fact that they are being intolerant to begin with. It's a double edged sword. See my point...

Matt your intellect is extrordinary, you are a gifted man.... I want the best for you, truly I do.... When you do find that place of understanding, well, enough to secure your faith, I see you doing even greater things in this world, especially now that you are famous.... Speaker at WPPI in all....What a platform....

Alcohol drinking is not wrong to me. Alcholism is defined as "a chronic disorder characterized by dependence on alcohol" So the thing I mean is when it is a disorder. I use alcoholism to illustrate the point but it can be anything you personally think is wrong. I'm trying to equate your beliefs not mine. If you believe alcoholism is wonderful, my analogy is bad for you but you can use murder, rape, incest, or shooting gay weddings - whatever you think is bad like that, if you are contributing, that's a problem. Depending on your view of Heaven, you are quite possibly contributing to further ills by shooting these weddings & ceremonies and helping people commemorate their own religions which can only get them into spiritual trouble with your God who says they are not to worship other Gods or false idols.

Anyhoo - I think I put enough about me into the above that if you read all those replies I become extremely clear. If not, I'll be happy to continue on but I think we all need a rest from this stuff. The end point is that people don't change their minds - they just feel bad for a little bit & move on. So whenever people are ready to do that, I'm ready. If people feel the need to continue on, I will.

Matt and Sarah - I'm amazed by the way that you've approached the subject - you have a LOT of wisdom and understanding.

Lots of ppl have said things like "I was raised by a preacher" or "I've been in Baptist school my whole life", etc. Well, I became a Christian (mostly) on my own. My family went to church every once in a while b/c that's what ppl did, but no one REALLY believed. When I went to college, I studied religion (I was a religious studies major w/ concentration on religs of the middle east) to FIND the answers. Today I find myself DEEPLY in love with Jesus - who he was, how trustworthy he is, and how he lived. And folks, that's no church talk - I DISCOVERED these things about him for myself - after years of intense research and yes, some agony and pain as well.

Sometimes I even hesitate to say I'm a "Christian" - because it carries so many connotations that are NOT me. I am so proud to call myself a follower of Christ. I have searched far and wide for answers.... spending time on all major and many minor religions. I'll share with you WHY, after all that, Christ is the one I chose, but understand, if you want to know if these things are accurate, you'' have to look for yourself (I'm attempting to summarize LOTS of realization time):

1) The historical literature about Christ (biblical and many non-biblical) has been guarded and preserved, in relation to the original written words, to a degree that I find makes it reliable and trustworthy as an accurate body of information to draw from.

2) If you study logic (here's where Stacy, the nerd, will surface) and the findings on human reasoning (TOO vast to explain here), you will see that the statements that Jesus made about himself, the observations of first-hand witnesses, AND the actions recorded about Jesus's life, make him stand out as more than human, as supernatural. If nothing less, my discoveries in this area force me to take a 2nd look at Jesus.

3) Here's the subjective part, which many will think is mush, but people, let's get real......it would be obsurd to ask a human being to make ANY judgement about anyone or anything in life without subjective information. Jesus has changed my life....I've seen my heart of stone changed, my relationships impacted, my attitude, and much much more. The "changer" may be invisible, but I promise you that the changes are visible.

So, all this rambling, just to say.....if anyone would like to discuss any of these points further, I am WAY open to that. Like Sarah and Matt, I LOVE talking about this stuff b/c I think this will teach me more about you guys than whether or not you like pictage.

I also value YOUR choice to believe what you want to believe - and I can feel however I want about your beliefs, but I am thankful, because I think that one thing that shows the GOODNESS of God is the freedom to choose. So, if anyone wants to PM me, I promise not to try to "convert" you.

I totally get where you're coming from and the questions that you have.

Catholics may disagree with me, but this is "my" Protestant view.

Hindu Wedding: The ceremony is about the couple's commitment to each other...their marriage to each other. Religion is a part of the ceremony, but the purpose of the event is to commit to each other (not a commitment to worshiping their gods). At least that is what I think it is - I'm open to the fact that I could be wrong about what their commitment is. If they are making a commitment to their gods as a part of the ceremony - well then...that is different.

Gay Wedding: I have gay friends. I love them as much as I love my non gay friends. I do think practicing homosexuality is a sin, but I'm not going to say it's worse than my own personal sins. With that said, when a gay couple make a commitment to each other, they are making a commitment to sin. Being a part of that ceremony feels wrong to me. I don't feel that I have to be a part of every single thing a friend does to support them and be a good friend.

Bat Mitzvah: I didn't know any Jewish people growing up, so I just don't know much about this. It is my undertanding that a bar mitzvah is about growing into an adult and taking resonsiblity for your actions and seeking to grow closer to God. I woudn't see a problem with being a part of this. But again, I'm no expert on Bat mitzvahs!

Jill, et al... I appreciate your well thought out replies, but have one question:

Is it not a sin to worship another god than the One True God? (Which commandment was that?)

I believe that Matt's point is that participating in that religous observance is to enable them to Sin by worshipping a false god.

Matt,
It was difficult to overlook your remark above since it was posted only 14 minutes after your earlier post below:



I appreciate your concern for fellow OSPers who happen to be Christians. I don't think we are being hostile to non-believers. We simply believe that our faith is based on the complete truth of God and the Word He has provided to us. Does that make us close-minded? I guess you could say that. But remember that nearly every Christian came to their faith after being open-minded and realizing that the other options did not stand up to the standards set by Christ. I remember hearing about how the FBI investigates conterfeit money rings. I found it interesting that the agents do not spend a lot of time studying counterfeit bills. Rather, they are so entrenched in what the REAL money looks, feels, smells like, that anything that does not match up to the true product is easy to separate as being phony. It's not my place to make judgements. That's God's business. But I will defend my faith.

I told myself I was out of this as it just has nowhere good to go..

Matt- You have seen some of what my thoughts are to all these issues in what I have written here and in other threads. I think you would agree that I am a pretty reasonable person. I know you like to argue and I do too, but I am not one to push Christianity on anyone but you really seem to have a will to listen. I am sure you have purposely tried to debate with others but you have always kept it all at arms length and tried to keep it away from you on a personal level.
I have seen your points and I can tell from what both you and Sarah have written that you have some deep issues with "Church." Something like 90% of americans identify themselves as Christians but it just isn't so. Don't confuse "Churchanity" with Christianity; I thought that because I grew up going to church that I too was a Christian but it isn't about going to chruch, being scared of going to hell and believing in God (Satan believes in God), it is about a relationship with God.
As for the idea that is quite popular that every religion has a bit of truth; Jesus was either the Son of God or he was a liar. He said "I am the way, the Truth and the Life, nobody will come to the Father but through Me." You either believe everything he said (I am not talking about people's interpertations of what He said) or He is a liar and you can't believe anything He said.
I believe you when you say that you have read the Bible but I don't believe your above statement or at least I don't think that you truely understand what it is to be a "true believer." It is not possible to be a true believer and then to not be one. If you truely believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God and died on the cross for your sins so that you could be saved and be with God in Heaven then you would not ever turn your back on Him. Maybe you would question from time to time as all free thinkers do, but you would never completely turn away because if you know the truth how could you deny it?

**edit** This is what happens when we all don't have enough work in the winter!

You will know a tree by the fruit it bears.... It's great to know all of you.... I wouldn't participate, and learn so much about photography and the business, if it weren't for you... Thanks for making this place as good as it is....

I'm out...

My point was...the ceremony is not about their commitment to their gods (at least I don't think it is). The ceremony is about their commitment to each other - which is not a sin.

though i don't want to continue picking a scab, i just wanted to point out that in most marraige ceremonies, the couple (and sometimes the audience) does recommit themselves to their worship of God. i 2nd shot one Buddhist wedding and the couple did have to repeat their pledge to Buddhism, as a couple. Christian ceremonies often do the same thing, and there is sometimes a little sermon, often prayer, etc. religous wedding ceremonies are still religous ceremonies.

i'm not saying you shouldn't shoot them.

Jill,
First, there is a distinction between "Churchianity" and Christianity as has previously been pointed out. The following is presented on the basis that the bride and groom are devout in their faith to whatever religion.

Every true (ie devout) Christian wedding I've attended has had the couple's relationship with God as its main idea.

The couple is coming together, and committing to themselves, and committing their new life together to the almighty.

Is a ________________ ceremony also not the same... the couple committing their lives to their church as a family unit?

I'm just trying to understand this from a non-Christian point of view.

When it comes down to brass tacks, my belief is that the only thing wrong with evangelicals is that they EVANGELICIZE! Doesn't matter what religion the evangelical is... telling someone that their lack of agreement on religious attitudes is insulting to them -- no matter what side of the religious fence they are on.

this thread has illustrated that quite well. I thank everyone for remaining civil and thoughtful!

Again, I am not saying there is no religion involved. I am saying that the ceremoy is about their commitment to each other. If the purpose of the ceremony is not about that, but about the two of them commiting to their gods, then I am wrong about thinking it is okay to shoot it.

Here are my posts in the order I posted them by statements made:

1. There IS division.

2. I am not creating it.

3. I'd rather talk about it all day than hide behind a monitor

4. I guess what we're after is some understanding of each other to eliminate the division that was talked about.

Is this inconsistent - is that why you pointed it out? I want to talk about it to get understanding so that we are not as divided. There is division on OSP - and I'd love to get through it so we can have fun again & just get through all this. If that means people go back & forth for a couple days on what they believe, that's not harmful to anyone but those unwilling to listen & learn.

Again, if I was inconsistent above, you'll need to point it out to me.

Thanks everyone for a great topic and insightful discussion.

I was afraid that today was going to be another day of "Happy New Year!" and "What do you resolve....?"

This was much more fun!

Much love to everyone!

Where did I do that Troy?

I am simply responding to questions. I am not on this thread to prove that I am right. In fact, I even mentioned that I could be wrong. That is why I think it is so important to have these conversations. I am currently in an unusual situation due to moving around. I attend church, but I haven't found a true church home since my move. I haven't had the opportunity to really discuss and think these things through with others and I appreciate the opportunity to do so here.

A common refrain at Catholic weddings:

"Will you accept children lovingly from God, and bring them up according to the law of Christ and his Church?"

Assuming is bad but I'm going to stretch & say that the blessing of rings, the "in the name of the father the son and the holy spirit" means something to the Catholics - then those same ritual blessings & words mean something to the Hindus & Muslims as well.

Anyhoo - I seem to have missed the mark on the whole other religions thing. It seems that most or all of you have no real issue with shooting a Muslim ceremony. To me, it promotes their religion to celebrate it with them, to share your vision of their love re: their Gods. But again, I seem to have missed where most of you stand on that one.

Sorry Jill... I was making a blanket statement about some of the other posts and was not referencing your posts.

(My brain has an Robin Williams style train of thought sometimes, and it makes leaps of topic without warning)

I should have seperated my thoughts better. My appologies for the confusion.

Hey Matt,

You're right. That is why I mentioned that Catholics might feel differently.
A Catholic wedding is entirely different than a Protestant wedding.





Oh, good.

When I shoot an event, I'm not a participant, and I'm not celebrating it with them. I offer them a congratulations and wish them well at some point, but I'm there to document the day as it unfolds, nothing more. It makes no difference to me what their religious (or lack of) affiliation may be. I will never see eye to religious eye with 100% of my clients, and I won't try. It doesn't matter. I'm there to tell their story with photographs, and to make a living doing it.

Like I said, I admit I could have missed on this one - that's why I tried it. If I have the answers, why ask the questions?

On the other hand, if you want to keep discussing it, here's what I see:

They invite guests to their wedding to share the happiness, enjoy the day & celebrate their marriage with them. If nobody showed up, would they not think that people did not condone their marriage? Do parents not sometimes skip weddings because they don't condone the choice of partners? Aren't inter-faith weddings difficult exactly because of what we're talking about? If you won't shoot a gay wedding (as a lot of people in this thread won't) aren't you not shooting it because you don't agree with their morality & faith? And if you then shoot a Muslim wedding isn't that in "some" way hypocritical? Or, put another way, do you think if it were possible, an 1820s painter would have painted a Muslim wedding or would the Catholic church have forbidden it? And if they would have forbidden it then, wouldn't someone like Gavin not want to shoot it now for the same reasons?

Ok, I'm really going to work now!!

Matt,
I was simply pointing out that at 9:45 your post indicated that our divisions won't go away. At 9:59, you stated that what you're after is an understanding to eliminate the division. So, I'm wondering if in your mind, there is really any hope in resolving the divisiveness? This is a great forum, and we will certainly not agree on everything, but we can always be cool to each other despite the differences.

I agree with you. My personal beliefs do not influence my choice of clients. I would shoot a gay, Muslim, Hindu, or whatever wedding and do my best at each of them. As I mentioned previously, I am a business. If I were involved in any other type of business, I would not discriminate based on religious or sexual preference, and I won't do it as a photographer.

Here's a quick example:

I have not photographed a gay committment ceremony yet, but I have photographed several gay couples at weddings and in my studio. They were either participants in the family portraits I have photographed or they approached me at some time during the event and asked for me to take a photograph of them. I've always gladly obliged. I've thought about this from time to time. What if I allowed my personal religious beliefs to affect my willingness to take those photographs? What if I had refused to take them? The only conclusion is that would be incredibly mean-spirited and ugly. It would certainly give them a bad taste for Christianity if I presented that as the reason for my refusal. And it surely would be harmful to my reputation as a business. I've come to the conclusion that gay people are so much more than their sexual preference. That is not their defining factor for me. I don't think of of you as that heterosexual guy, so why should I think of someone else as that "gay guy" or that "lesbian"? And the same goes for persons of different religious affiliations. And I've formed some great relationships with my clients and other aquaintances with this attitude.

Exactly Jill. I know we mostly disagree, but this is spot on. Christ fulfilled the law, and Christians need to stop letting the law get in the way of the discussion. The law was then, the spirit is now. Sure there are commands in the new testament, but not to the same exactness of the old.

As to the homosexual wedding part let me add a comment. I strongly disagree with homosexuality, and their marriage and I would not shoot their wedding. This does not mean that as a Christian I would spit on them in the street, or not serve them in my restaurant! A wedding is something that even though I doing a job, it's very personal. I have to be able to capture the connection and love between a couple, and with a man and a woman I can do that and get excited about the wedding even if they may not believe the way I do. With a homosexual wedding I would not be able to be a part of it, and capture the moments in and excited way. It would seem gross to me.

So aside from all my rants about why I think it's so perverted, it simply would make no sense for me to shoot a wedding with a couple that I could not connect with and relate to in some way. If I own a reasuarant, or a grocery I would certainly not kick them out, it would not be an issue as I do not need to connect, and get to be someone they can connect with.

as surprised as i am gavin, we do finally agree on something.

Anybody wanna see shots from my half naked lesbian session?

I am after an understanding to heal and bind as much of this community as is possible - our underlying division of beliefs will not change. Our division into "camps" as it were lately should, I hope. I guess I used the same word for two different divisions - ideas & people. Sorry about that. There IS hope of solving some of the people divisiveness but not so much hope for the idea divisivness unfortunately.

M





I have PM.

(sarah's looking over my shoulder laughing - so I guess that means "matt's funny, but don't pm him.)

M

Sensory overload!!!

Lots of good points. Lynn is a brave soul for even sharing her feelings. I think Matt's initial response was great.

Personally, I was starting to feel a bit uncomfortable too. But, I had anticipated the same type of response that Lynn received. So, I felt it was better not even to say anything.

Lots of talk about judging people. How can you not make judgements about people or things? Don't we do that everyday? We make judgements about who's post we are going to respond to on OSP. We make judgements about the pictures that are posted. We make judgements about who we choose to be surrounded by in our lives. If you are African-American and you have only African-American friends, aren't you making a judgement about choosing not to surround yourself with more diversity? That goes for any race. Anyone watch "Ugly Betty"? Isn't she judged based on her appearance? If someone farts in public, don't the people around that person make a judgement about them.

In my opinon, the problem is when someone feels that they are being judged unfavorably. That's what's uncomfortable. If we say, Amber Holritz is lookin' sexay in that avatar of hers. That's a judgement. But it's a judgement that supports her decision to post that picture. But if someone says they don't subscribe to her point of view with regards to her decision...oh, then we're being judgemental. Yeah, it's uncomfortable to be criticized. We'd all like to think that our peers think favorably of us. But that's not the case. And it should be ok.

CHRISTIANS ARE NOT PERFECT. And any Christian who thinks or acts like they are is not reflecting the image of Christ. So, yes there are going to be Christian photographers who's decisions on who to photograph and who not to photograph don't seem to be consistent with their beliefs. But, then again how does one know what Christian beliefs are if you have not picked up a Bible, or set foot in a church, or studied the Bible for yourself. Aren't you judging someone if you call them intolerant and judgemental? Yes, you are. Ultimately, if Lynn is a Believer in the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, if she has a personal relationship with Him, HE is the one to which she has to answer. For according to her beliefs, He is the only one that is without sin. And it is only based on HIS morality that she should base her life decisions. Will she make mistakes? Yes. Will she get stuff wrong? Yes. Don't we all? But when she stands before her Maker, He will see straight through the things we all miss, and look directly at her heart and the heart of her intentions. That's what she and all of us should be concerned about.

On a side note: I don't think these discussions are bad. They're great. It is through these dialogues that we REALLY get to know who someone TRULY is, what they value, how they think. And that's why it's so uncomfortable. This is the stuff with which we are bearing our souls.

OOPS!! I meant to post this in Lynn's thread. Sorry about that.

wow, that took me a LONG time to get through (didn't see this thread till just a few hours ago). What a GOOD discussion! I was a bit nervous when I started reading it, not sure if I either wanted to read, or participate, because like many I wasn't sure where it was leading. But I'm extremely impressed Matt with your desire both to know the members here betterand create positive conversation that can lead to better understanding and unity (even if we don't all agree).

So I know I'm late getting into this, but I thought I'd share my answers quickly also.

(1) Since I don't shoot weddings as of yet (if ever ) question 1 doesn't totally apply. I'm not sure if I'd shoot another religious ceremony, I can see both sides to it that have been stated, that what I would be supporting is their commitment to each other, not their religious beliefs, but like Matt said, I'm not sure I would be altogether comfortable with the religious portions.

(2) Yes, I will shoot maternity photos (and look forward to my first chance to!). I'm not altogether comfortable with complete nudity, but that's more personal comfort level not moral. But I do believe in artistic nudity, and can appreciate it, however I personally feel many struggle with being tempted by any form of nudity and therefore wouldn't feel comfortable displaying such photos. If that makes any sense....

(3) I have never done a bar/bat mitzvahs (sp? I can't see the prior posts at this point to check spelling) but I would be willing to. For one like many have stated before the Jewish faith stems from the same beliefs as Christianity, but I believe their missing the crucial element, accepting Jesus as their Messiah. They are not in conflict with my beliefs (following a different god etc.) Just like how I would photograph a methodist, presbyterian, catholic, etc. event.

(4) I do shoot on Sundays, and this is a weakness of mine that i admit openly to not following as much as I should. I do believe that the sabbath as stated in other posts is created for humans not humans for the sabbath, and that after Jesus came that law was changed and clarified so we were not bound by the law. I believe we need to take a day of rest, both for our own health and wellbeing, the wellbeing of our families, and to focus on and drawn nearer to our Lord. But as I said, I am not as good about this as I wish I was. I try to not plan things on Sundays, and I always make attending church with my family a priority, I do sometimes book photo sessions on Sundays.

Thanks Matt for posting this, many of the thoughts and viewpoints posted here (from both the Christians and non Christians) have been good food for thought for me!

I have a lot to think about............



+1 I totally agree thanks for posting this!

Here here!!

I want to see your lesbian pics melody! But only if they're muslim, it's a Sunday and they've been married. These "christians" are freaking me out. Whatever happened to "God is love"?

For the record, I go to church and believe in God. I believe that Muslims, Buddhists, Christians, and Hindu are all equal and no single group is more "correct" the the others.

So all of you fundamentalists can wrap your heads around that one while I go have a glass of wine with my gay buddhist friend.


my favorite bumper sticker today:
"God, protect me from your followers"

I shoot everything except when they incorporate the color green. It's too whorish.

You know my buddy David? Add in "nudist" and you have him pegged!

So who uses Pictage?

Got any half-lesbian, fully naked?