I just got the church's wedding photog agreement in the mail from my bride. The agreement has all these restrictions and I am required to sign and return it. However, it also says that I am to send a MONEY ORDER or CASHIERS CHECK for $500 and that any violation of church policy can result in the full amount being withheld.

Um..... agreements are ONE THING, but a money order or cashiers check? WTF?

Am I just so redneck that I've never shot somewhere that required that or is that just a little bit out of line?

Need guidance. Thanks

I have never heard of that - it sounds ridiculous. Personally, I would offer them their deposit back and run.

Oh god.... wow...

I agree with karen!

If anything, wouldn't the client be the one to pay the deposit? Either way, the idea seems bizarre.

HA Wedding is in less than 2 weeks. Just got the agreement from bride today.

if it has to be paid, make them do it.

It'd have to be a huge money wedding for me to do that. I've never heard of that either.

Send the church an agreement. Require them to give you $500. If you don't like the sermon, some of all of the money will be forfeit.

Seriously, I've never heard of such a thing. Tell the bride they need to pay it.

They are out of their flippin mind! If the bride knew it all along I would be pretty ticked at her. No way would I be fronting the check no matter if they knew or not. AAAHH... another new line to add to my contract "Any fees or deposits required by venues to be used by the client are not the photographers responsibility to pay. All fees or deposits must be paid by the client".

The bride should have to give the deposit. If she had told you about before she booked with you, then it would be a different story. Did she not know about it either? It's a lot of money. Of course, you would get it back, but at whose determination???

Maybe you could call PPA if you are member to see if the church can legally charge you a "follow our rules" deposit.

They have probably run into photographers not obeying their rules, and are fed up with it. I am sure this is probably just a deterrent to get people to respect the ceremony. It would not surprise me if more churches start following this. The have been plenty of weddings where the cordinator or pastor has told me about previous problem with other photographers in the past. i would let your client pay for it. Good luck.

Ridiculous. It's a little bit late in the game to deliver something like this now, IMO. It seems like the church is putting you at direct odds with them and your client.

I would talk to the bride and have her cover it -- or raise heck about this "deposit" -- and the timing.

What a bad precedent. Essentially you'll be handing the church $500 that they can steal from you if the wedding coordinator thinks you got a little too close in attempt to gasp fulfill your contract with the client.

Depending on the money at stake I would consider calling the bluff of the church, having my lawyer (my sister) write a nasty letter, or just have the bride cover it.

Good luck!

That is the most ridiculous thing I have read this week! I would defintely make my feelings known about how this just will not be coming out of my pocket. This was not in any contract you signed and you will not be pressured into it because the wedding is 2 weeks away. It kind of feels like the bride may be banking on you not bailing on her since it is so close to her day.

If she held onto this info then I would be very upset. I hope for her sake that isnt the case.

they chose the church, they pay the deposit.

+1

I totally agree

Ummm...They cant do that. The CHurch is not a money making venu and is a non profit. I would ask what the fee is for and in any regards, the couple should incure such expense. That is crazy and very suspect.

Yep. Sign the form and mail it to the bride along with the instructions for the deposit.

Send the church a special $2000 "money order" and have them forward the extra $1500 to your "assistant".

Hey, one scam deserves another

Wow this is crazy. I agree with making the client pay it. They chose the church. Did they know about this when the booked the church and if so, did then let you know about it when the booked you? Even still this should be paid by the client!

Wow. Amazing. Hope the bride and groom have some extra $$ for this. There's no way I would pay it. Sorry you are having to deal with this. I'm amazed at just how much some church members hate photographers.....

It is funny at how highly the Chruch regards the sanctity of marriage and wedding, but they are making it nearly impossible for the couple to archive the day, or have th day that they dreamed of. One church here actually measures the flowers and if they are too tall--they throw them out! YUP CRAZY

There are only a few churches left in this area that will let you shoot during the wedding. Most of them will only let a photographer go in if they leave the equipment outside--which for me is not going to happen

I would let the clients pay it.

Absolutely! If clients want to photograph at the monuments here in dc, they get the permits and they are responsible for the fee. Same applies here. And I have never heard of the this before ......

Interesting...

My contract is between me and the bride/groom....NOT with the venue. But, for conversations sake, how is this fee different from a fee for a license to shoot an engagement at the beach?

Bottom line, as a responsible professional, I should ask questions to be aware of unseen costs. Or...if costs are already known, it should be built into the package or billed separately. At the very least, there should a clause in my contract protecting me from these "extra fees".

OTOH, the whole MO or Cashiers Check is just plain silly.

Don't get into a fight with the venue about it. Pass it along to the bride and have her deal with it. If the church calls you again, refer them to the bride and nicely get off the phone. I hope you have a clause which limits your liability in the case that venue rules restrict you from performing your duties.

Also, I think this might be a tax violation for a religious institution.

Pretty funny idea..... shame it would not be legal, but I am not sure demanding a 'deposit' is legal either. You could send them a certificate of insurance showing that you are covered - very weird.

If this is true, BLOW THEM IN.

I think this is absolutely ridiculous as well, and I agree with everyone else the bride chose the location, they pay.

Playing devil's advocate, I can kinda see why they are doing this. My guess is they have had some out of control photographers there who have interrupted/broke the rules/possibly did damage. They tried to hold the bride and groom responsible (under their deposit and agreement) and ran into problems as it was the photographer what did the damage. They are trying to cover their bases.

Don't get me wrong though, I don't agree with this, and if I was the photographer I'd have major issues with this as well. Sadly, Chris and I have pretty much come to the point where we dread our church weddings because of all the restrictions. What's even more sad, is that many of those restrictions have come about because of photographers who give the whole profession a bad name and show no respect for the venue's traditions, rules and the ceremony itself.


Now I have a question about the comment above. While I think it's totally wrong that they are doing this, why is it a tax violation? How is it any different than the deposit or even building use fee they put on the bride or any other group that wants to use the facility?

this reminds me of HOT POTATO HOT POTATO. the bride already passed it on to her... dont just pass it back to her, call her and discuss this wtih her and advise that this is not your responsibility.

i honestly do not find this anywhere near similar to obtaining/purchasing a license for an e session.

i'm sure had jess known about this, she would have integrated it into the wedding contract and asked the bride and groom for a returnable deposit to cover it.

no way should jessica be responsible for this. this could almost be considered extortion.

i dont know what the rules are for this church, but normally, you meet wtih the church/pastor/minister whomever, before you can reserve the church so i am wondering if this was already mentioned and they have forgotten?

It's not a tax violation. It's not a fee. It's a deposit. It's also ridiculous, IMO. I mean I could see it if what you were doing could conceivably cause damage or require a clean up effort by the church staff, but you're a photographer. You leave no footprint at all.

Have you called the church to make sure this is a requirement? They might waive it for a photographer, where a caterer using their kitchen might have to pay it. We can talk about it all day long, but we have zero effect on whether you have to pay it or not.

Wow. What will they think of next?

hahahahaha! seriously


oops! Edit to say I am in Houston and I have a friend here in town who is also a photographer and she had this happen to her as well.

I have never heard of such a thing. I agree with the majority. Have the bride pay the deposit, as I would think that as far as vendors, that doesen't apply to a photographer.

What were the rules they are asking you to follow?

Oh this is not some general vendor contract. It is SPECIFIC to photographers.

And it makes no mention of damage or liability. It is even named ... including capitalization "Refundable Restriction Adherence Fee"

I want to hear how this story ends. Does Jess pay? Does Jess contact prebride to pay? How is THAT letter worded? Does Jess call church to find out what local photog ruined it for everybody? Does Jess shoot anything during ceremony? Does Jess/bride get deposit back? Is there any fighting over vagueness of restriction rules? Does Jess change her contract for future gigs? What does the new contract say? SO MANY QUESTIONS!

So they deduct a certain amount for your deposit every time you commit a "no-no"...

She moved during the ceremony... -$50

She sneezed... - $37.50

She stood on the grass... -$75

She goosed the minister... priceless

Even if the bride and groom pay (which should be the case), you still must find out all the details. I know you have a list of the policies in hand, but questions like this come to mind...(I'm guessing at some of the restrictions.)

It says no flash photography during the ceremony. What is the church's definition of the ceremony? Once guests are seated? or Once the Bride walks down the aisle? or Once the Pastor begins speaking?

When is it safe to begin taking pictures? After the kiss? After the lighting of the candles? After the couple emerges from the sanctuary?

Am I to be penalized if guests take flash pictures? Who will be watching closely to make sure I am not blamed? ('Cause it's gonna happen!)

No movement during the ceremony. Do I have to remain seated? Can I sit anywhere? Can I move left to right but not forward? Get specific.

Time limits. What happens if we go over the limit at no fault of my own?

Final judgments. Who is the judge here? Do I get any warnings?


See, this all gets SO VERY SILLY if they stick to this. And I see a great possibility for unfair treatment to gain revenue.....this is just wrong. I know they are most likely responding to poor actions from previous photographers, but this is not the Christian way. Period. (Coming from one, so no allegations of Christian-bashing here.) I once had a church nazi tell me I was not allowed in the sanctuary. I asked why and she said "because you are a photographer". I very politely told her that I am a Christian....photography is what I 'do'. She let me in.

I'm just saddened by this all. I wonder how we, as a profession, can reach out to clergy/church committees and put their concerns to rest? Any ideas anyone? If all OSP members did so, maybe we could prevent this kind of thing.

Back to work.

Really Ridiculous A[] Fee

Steve! Where have you been buddy?



Back on topic, that's seriously the most ridiculous thing I've heard in awhile. And I've heard some whoppers. lol

NFW

What are the restrictions?

I mean, you can just tell them "no" and let the bride sort it out. I just think this is ridiculous and for them to spring it on you 2 weeks before the wedding? I wouldn't give them a dime because inevitably some little church lady will be watching you to step on Jesus' toe and scream out "BLASPHEMER" and run to the bank to cash the check. Well, hobble because of the walker...

Maybe they are trying to raise money for goodwill towards all mankind.

I have worked with other photogs that are not very respectful in regards to a place of worship. I worked with a guy who was so addicted to Nicotine that he almost light one up right in the sanctuary. Maybe they are looking at that side of it.

I think it is absolutely STUPID but maybe they have been burned before.

omg. i'm letting you type up my responses from now cause i want to know all this and MORE.

Exactly!

Ok, tell you what. You take my editing off my hands, and I'll sit around and type osp responses all day. Deal!

You ROCK Ginger!

(And yeah, this sucks Jess.)

This is crazy, Jess!!! Definetely let us know the outcome . . . inquiring minds want to know (it all)!!

Have you shot this yet? What ended up happening??

I shot it last weekend *26th*

The bride called back before the wedding and basically said that she'd called, gotten no response, so don't worry about it. We'd cross the bridge when we came to it.

A very nervous me decided to do just that. The day before the wedding, the "planner" who apparently JUST started that job called to run over everything and so I asked about it and she said "OH! She DID tell you that you DIDN'T have to pay it, RIGHT?" Relief.

yay! well i'm glad it worked out for you. a little anti-climatic for the story, but good.

GOOD! Glad to hear it all turned out okay.....one of the dumbest things I'd ever heard. *sheesh* Still shaking my head at the thought. I'm now an advisor to our wedding guild at church...you know the group of ladies who make the wedding rules.