Hi all

Right-o. For the last six months I have been spending every moment on my PC teaching myself photoshop.

I have been trying very hard to get the colour mix for my images right - I want really sharp, poppy colours like the Southern Californian photographers on here!

But I just can't do it!! Mine seem to look too dark or too grey. I have tried actions, opacity mixes, blog stalked, watched tutorials and it just aint happening!

I KNOW that the photography side is a big part of it but I am getting so upset because I feel like I am failing. My poor husband keeps dragging me off the machine at like midnight...:-)

Can anyone help? My blog is www.dollyphotography.blogspot.com..so you can see my current colour mix!!

I just get so depressed when I blog stalk every day and think, that's what I aspire to but right now I can't see any way of getting there!!

take a class. you can sit there till your blue in the face and you may never get it right.

there are also a lot of online tutorials that can help as well. do some searches.

I don't think you've got much to worry about - your colors on your blog look fine to me!

Firstly & most importantly, it's about getting your exposure & lighting right when you shoot. Do you shoot RAW? If not, I would recommend shooting RAW and tweaking your images before processing in something like Camera Raw. Then it's basic levels, curves & make sure you sharpen when you finish. Rather than explain it all in words, check out this tutorial from Red Leaf Studio http://redleafstudios.squarespace.com/red-...-histogram.html (also try duplicating your layer, adding a high pass filter to about 10-15 & set the blending mode in your layers palette to soft light or overlay which will give it extra pop)

Obviously, there are a bunch of actions you can run too one of which I would recommend is Boutwell's Magic Glasses in the Totally Rad action set.

Hope that helps a bit.

I also took a quick look at your blog and it seems like some of your images are underexposed. I am specifically looking a the eye sockets, and they seem a bit dark.

Here's what I suggest:

Make sure your histogram is not just good, but great! The mountain should be in the center of the graph, and not quite touching the edges on either side.

Warm up the color temperature a bit - Somewhere in the 5000K range is usually good.

Resize your images for the web, and then sharpen using your favorite method.

FYI - I used to shoot JPG and now shoot raw. I expose for the eye socket (not just the skin). I love sunset light!

I just took a look at your blog. I really like your style.

Here are a few things that stood out. Things like dark (kinda like you said). You need to open up the shadow areas a bit, which can be done in Photoshop. Also all your photos seem cool. This is a personal preference, but I am thinking if you learn to experiment with color adjusting using curves, you could warm them up slightly and maybe that would "feel" better to your eye.

I wish you could see the beautiful parts of your photos too. You have some amazing stuff.

Let me know if you want some one-on-one training in photoshop. That is a service my company does and I am thinking a few hours of training can save you many late nights of trying to figure it out yourself.

Jodi

this is the key.

processing should enhance - you need to get it right in the camera - master the light. photoshop should be a tool, your photography is the craft.

Your photos look contrasty enough to me...but your colours are off.
Are you shooting in sRGB?

If so, you may want to try adding some increased saturation, or shooting in the cloudy or shade mode on your camera to warm them up a little.
You may just need to experiment until you get what you like.

Also, do your colours look like this in photoshop or only on the web. If you are "saving to web", this can sometimes change your colours.

Wow thanks everyone!! That's really great advice. I do shoot in RAW and I use a combination of TRA set 1 and Kevin Kubota's actions.

I must admit, I don't use much curves but I will try that too.

I defo agree on the exposure and getting it right in camera - it's something I am working very hard to achieve as well and I practice on absolutely EVERYTHING (including all my friends, the contents of my fridge, my birthday cards...etc etc! :-)!)

I haven't been saving as SAVE FOR WEB, I didn't realise it made a difference (such a noob!) but the colours do look roughly the same to me (though I know monitors are different.)

Would it help if I posted one of my raw files here so you can see my starting point?

That sounds fun!

Lots of good advice already - here is a good link to learn photoshop:

www.radiantvista.com

It's mostly geared towards landscape photographers, but nobody spends more time on a single image in photoshop than landscape photographers... ;-)

you bet!

Also, those photographers tend to find and shoot REALLY GOOD LIGHT. I had a pretty famous PJ once tell me that instead of looking for a moment, you should look for the light and shoot what is in the light. Obviously, this isn't always true, but the people you mention are always trying to get on the side of the subject with the most flattering, open light.

I think you can definitely warm up the images with a simple push in color temperature, especially when you are shooting in shadows on a blue sky day or even a cloudy day. Also, check out the Vibrance slider.

I think your stuff looks great - very sharp! But I do agree with others who are noting our stuff is on the "cool" side. One thing you'll hear a SoCal photog like Jess Claire talk about is the warmth of her images. Try playing with "Warm It Up Kris" with TRA 1 and you can start to see the differences. Granted, it's good to focus on nailing stuff SOOC camera (as others on here have said) but I'm like you (still new to the gig) and I understand the need to then punch stuff up as you're learning your PP style.

BTW: I'm just now figuring the whole "Save for Web" stuff too (and probably still not doing it right) so don't feel so bad!

I think Jasmine* discusses how she does what she does at

http://prophotoresource.com/index.php/ProP...-Star/1887.html

This link is a list of articles that she has been interviewed for by prophotoresource and I there was one I remember reading on exactly what she does for the treatment.

On the other side of things, I think you do great post processing, I do notice that your images are a bit on the cooler side which can be adjusted per recommendations above. But your images pop and they are sharp! I remember photogs like Jasmine and Jessica Claire always mention the importance of light, and it's so true what a HUGE difference poor light vs. really good light can do for an image.

I also remember that becker on his b school blog was talking about finding good light--for example finding shade next to a building than rotating a model in the shade to see where the light hits their face best.

Yes, so many wonderful resources but one just has to tap into all this great information and put it all together! This forum is definetly a major factor to me developing~

nicola,

just a quick note....

since you said you new to this, try to be patient. yes! photography is very exciting - especially now. but, be patient with yourself. let YOUR style develop. it takes a little time. be inspired by others, but create your own best style by deciding what you do that you like. let it be your style, not a copy of someone else's.

it takes a little time - let it grow.

Hi again -

And thanks once again to all the new posters - you all raised very interesting and valid comments. I know I should let my own style develop, I am trying to just kind of pick out what I like...it's tough to leave it alone cos I genuinely LOVE it! It's so exciting!

Anyway, here is my image as promised (hope this works, I never popped one on before)

I did actually read that J* article and used that colour mix on my photos...but you can't tell!! I have no clue where I am going wrong - aside from the fact I have some glaring clangers in my original photo!!

Here it is, (slightly embarrassed by it in its raw form...)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3012/267142..._3d35738d9b.jpg

It's a really bad example - everything is off!! Exposure, the lot :-(

It is not really bad! Geez, if that's your "really bad" ... I don't know, all I'm saying is that your "really bad" would wipe it's a** with MY "really bad".

Anyway, I pulled it onto my computer and it was really small and a .jpg, so I didn't really get anywhere that I felt I could show you something useful, but I do definitely think curves will give you what you want. I messed with curves just a little bit on the .jpg and it definitely gave it pop.

Don't be so hard on yourself! You're just starting out - you should see some of my stuff when I first began! I'm sure many others would say the same thing.

You've definitely over-exposed the dress and that's not something you can "bring back" but all your shot needs is a few tweaks, a crop and it "pops" just like you want it (thanks to Boutwell's Magic Glasses & Contrast & Luma & a high pass layer & a crop)! You just need to concentrate on getting the exposure right though especially if you plan on working with white dresses on a regular basis! Maybe that's something you should concentrate on first instead of PS...
Click to view attachment



.........Don't think the photographers whose work you might be admiring do everything right in-camera & don't post-process at all!

the jpeg is a little small to work on I agree...if that is a raw file though I would look at your camera settings as it does look a bit cool straight out of camera--maybe a picture style or something set wonky in camera or the white balance in camera is on something unintentionally. The first thing I notice is giving your images their coolness is a lot of pinkness/magenta in the skin tones. also cut yourself some slack. your work looks good....realize that what everyone is saying about the light is true. Images taken in the midwest where I live in mid day open shade are never going to have the golden tones of a cali sunset or sunrise golden hours shot with out a total photoshop overhaul...and there is no reason it has to go there. :-) all different types of light can produce beautiful images and there are actions/ etc to help out with all different kinds--just takes experimenting.

Kate

Whoa Nicola! Why so hard on yourself? All I see are gorgeous photos.

Do you mind me asking where you are from? It just looks like you get a lot of cloudy days... where as those so-cal folks get lots of yummy sun...

Sorry! I am just a huge cynic! I like to push myself, it's how I work best. I second shoot every weekend so hopefully I will sort out the dress issue:-)
Sofie that looks cool!! I will try that! I don't know why it uploaded as a JPEG. Its most def a raw file...

And in answer the question as to where I am from? Barnsley, South Yorkshire. Very small population. Former mining town that was crippled by recession in the 80s and is only just really starting to have money pumped in to develop it. But I love it here, it's where my family is. AND there's noone here that has a style like mine so hopefully I will have a niche when I finally go solo!

I take everything that goes wrong as a challenge to conquer - but I think I need to dial down my enthusiasm some times :-) I'm not really being hard on myself - just honest, I can see what's wrong with them...I am just not yet at a stage where I know easily how to correct it.

But I will get there! Thanks so much to everyone, it really has lifted my spirits hearing some of your comments and raised my confidence a little. I look at my photos again and am starting to see the good and not just the bad!

Eric, I've got to take issue with this advice. The histogram will look different depending on the image content, and trying to make a sunset/sunrise, or a bride and groom (white dress/black tux) look like a mountain will never happen.

I just don't want someone learning wondering why they can't get the "mountain", when maybe it will be correct with spikes at both ends and a valley in the middle. A low key image histogram will be biased to the left or dark side and high key will be opposite.

And if anyone can tell me how to post a RAW file I will do it!! I have tried reading the upload rules and am a bit stuck (I know what I did wrong I hosted it in flickr which converts to JPEG!)

OOOh wait! I think I did it!!

I thought the shots looked good. I would agree that the color was a little cool though. I would try warming it up by using curves or processing them through LR. You have really good contrast and great style so I wouldn't be too hard on yourself!

You know, I am seriously wondeing if that coolness has to do with a/ perpetual grey skies and no sun or b/ my camera!

I have checked the settings and as far as I can see everything is as it should be...on RAW, normal colour settings etc etc.

I shoot on a D80 and have always thought my images came out looking 'grey' - especially in comparison to the S5 which I have borrowed a few times.

Nicole,I would also try a trick that I do in PS to add some pop to my images. I use Saturation and bump the Master up 15-25% then I drop the red 10-25% to avoid sunburn on the skin tones. You can also warm your photos by pushing the blue channel in your Curves. Curves are your best friend so I would play with them!Kevinwww.kevinkeithweddings.comI could tell you shot with a Nikon by looking at the image. Nikons tend to shoot a lot cooler then Canon. You will have to warm your images upin PS or LR. I would suggest making an action or preset if this is a common occurrance.

I hope you dont mind Nicola but i had a play aswell. and can i first say i love the image. I basically did a levels adustment, a curves adjustment, fuji snap it and some burning to lead the eye in to the subject.

dont be too hard on your images they are very good, but i dont see anything wrong with wanting to be much better, im the same.

scott.

You know Nicola, I hate to say it, but, I know exactly what you are talking about. And it goes beyond just "getting right in the camera". There is a certain quality that they are achieving that has to do with more than correct exposure and finding good light. I am not sure if it is the use of prime lenses or if it is photoshop or what it is but I have taken PLENTY of shots that were dead on with exposure and in great ligthing...and sure it makes for a much better image...but it still doesn't reach that certain quality that you are talking about. It is that super tack sharp, yet very buttery, and almost 3-d looking image that seems like it could punch you in the face. And as much as this has been discussed I have never seen anyone post an example of how they think it is done where it actually compares to that look. So I am with ya. I can "punch" my colors with curves with the best of them and I can sharpen and all that good stuff but I still cannot seem to get that "look".

Matt - I really think so much is a combination of both the photography, sharpness, expsoure, lighting, etc AND the editing. Curves and sharpening are great, but there are more techniques you can try too. Also sometimes people ask me to try and make their photo look like someone elses - on the editing side.

The thing is often times, who they want to imitate is not technically sound. I see color casts, and especially blow outs, etc. So I really do recommend people try to find their own style. Though I still know everyone has certain looks they aspire too.

Just be true to who you are while being inspired.

Jodi

Great advice and comments all around! I won't be lazy and expect people to do it for me! I will keep plugging away and see what happens next time I shoot (friday!)

Now, off to bed with my Understanding Exposure book :-)

Yes I completely agree with you and I appreciate your input. And don't take this the wrong way cuz I'm not trying to nock you here, but, I think, for me at least, I don't know that this is a matter of wanting to emulate someones style as it is trying to figure out how to make my images as sharp and clear as they can be. It is along the lines as if I asked..."How do I get my exposures accuate like Jessica Claire".

Don't get me wrong, the majority of my images are sharp and are of professional degree. But there is that "next level" of clarity, sharpness, and punch that makes people ask time after time how jasmine star, jessica claire, et al. acheive that "look" and that "look" isn't just style...it is a degree of quality.

I just did a side by side comparison of images from Jasmine's blog, and images from other photogs I respect. None of them had that same quality as Jasmines. That's not to say that they weren't great photos, but they just lacked that sharpness/ buttery tones/ vibrancy that she acheives. And I know for sure that good lighting and proper exposure certainly is a big part...but there is something else to it that nobody else seems to get. For instance, there was an image of taken out in pure harsh sun. And for sure it wasn't the best lit photo of jasmines, but it still had that extra punch of sharpness and butteryness and perfect contrast to it.

Matt,

Totally interesting - I hear what you are saying. There is something amazing about both people you mentioned - Jessica and Jasmine. I think it even goes beyond the photos though. There is something magical about them, their attitudes, their personality as it comes across on the blogs, and about their work.

I love it. But here is something funny. I showed their work to my family, as I have a sister 12 years younger who is getting married. Just wondered about their thoughts. They did not love it. They did not see what we as photographers see. They thought it was too abstract, too artsy, not "normal" enough. I argued and said - but these people are at the TOP of the industry...

Anyway, back to your original thoughts, what is missing from everyone else that they have?? I do not know if I know. We all know whose actions they use - they mention it all the time. But those actions alone do not make photos look like theirs.

Many photographers have matching lenses and equipment. So why - did they get a better version of a camera - LOL - just kidding. A better copy of the lens - kidding again... I really do not know. I do think it is a certain way they capture the light, combined with nailing focus, nailing exposure, post processing, and their own vision. But what the "IT" is - well I cannot really say for sure.

Most of my training customers are portrait photographers, and they all have certain children's portraiture photographers they have these same questions about.

Maybe some just have more of the "gift" - LOL. Or more skill. And I could go on for hours.

But I won't. Thoughts???

you are a true artist my friend!!!

Just wanted to say that I agree with you. There is a something a little extra in them... more talent? Probably.

But the good news is that talents can be developed

Ha! I know EXACTLY what you mean about your story of when you showed their pics to your sister. It's so funny sometimes how us photographers will just absolutely LOVE a certain image or style, and yet others are just like "what? I don't get it." I have done some work for friends before that I thought was just amazing and couldn't wait to show them. When I showed them I could tell that they were so used to a more conservative studio style portraiture and really didn't get it. Oh well.

And you're right, Jessica and Jasmine, setting aside the whole "punchy" quality, are exremeley talented in the way they bring out a side to thier clients that makes for amazing photos that are very personal, connected, and unique to each of their clients. When I look at their work I don't see a whole lot of repetition. I see a very personalized approach to each client. That, I think, more than anything, is why they are at the top. And you can see how jasmine et al's personalities are communicated through their work. That's what gives them their "style".

I agree with the others that your images appear cool and that you have a lot of fine images regardless. Definately warm them up during the RAW conversion either in ACR or Lightroom. You can setup a camera profile that is a bit warm and use that as a starting point on all your conversions. But that all has been said.

I think you have found a lot of nice even lighting, or are stuck with it because of where you live, which is a good thing but while finding and using even lighting I'd also suggest looking for directional lighting. It doesn't have to be harsh and it can even be light bounced off a building while your subject is in shade. I say this because IMO the shadows are very important in providing shape and texture to images and flat light eliminates a lot of that. Also overexposing your images will cause trouble in the same regard. I'd rather be a bit underexposed then over as you can often pull detail out of shadows but you rarely can rescue highlights. This is what I see in your sample image. You can even work with super soft even light and kick in a little bit of light with a reflector or strobe to get some direction and if you work with strobes and gels you can warm up the subject while letting the background go cool.

And one last tip. If you look at a lot of the photographers that you are trying to emulate you will see an almost standard use of edge vignettes which help to focus a viewers eyes on the main subject in the photo. I think you will find it helps and in combination with more warmth and some soft directional light you'll have nailed that look.

Except that their clients are always drop dead gorgeous and always wear the best shoes!

I have some seriously drop dead gorgeous friends!!

I am prepared to work for it. There are some people who have answered my posts that have an absolute knockout style too and I am thrilled that you guys have taken the time to answer.

I am going to take all that advice (directional light, reflecting, exposure issues, etc etc) and concentrate on my in-camera work tomorrow (I sometimes panic but I will breathe!!!)

If people are still interested (don't want to take up too much time) I will repost some of those afterwards so you can see how your advice has helped me.

Thanks so much, truly. You are all great!

I would love to see the next round!

Me Too !

The sharpness comes from "Magic Sharp", they have both said that on their blogs

Nicola, hello this may come late as I am writing while still unable to post. The composition is good but blowing out the the dress detail causes a myriad of issues, princibly one large blotch of white which detracts from everything else. In this case the dress is as important as the subject. Also the D80 is not capable of capturing the dynamic range of an S5. One of the things is to learn to work within the scope of the equipment at hand. No matter what you shoot with, there are compromises, part of the job is neutralizing them as much as possible. Lastly onto photoshop you will not learn how to post process overnight. Rather than learning photoshop imo you would be better served by learning some basic techniques. Why? because photoshop is a monster and the same thing that makes it a great program also causes it to be a bear. There are so many ways to accomplish the same end... some are more intuitive, some simply work better, some don't work at all. post processing an image is like a chess match, you must have a strategy to achive the desired end result. And to get that "WOW" factor it begins at the camera and ends at the final product. I'm not saying this to be mean or negative, but if you are not meeting your expectations. It's because you do not have the knowledge it takes to get you there. And that's not a bad thing. What's bad is beating yourself up about things that are outside of your control. There's only so much time in a day. learning techniques instead of tools has andvantage in photoshop, the tools are fantastic in photoshop. But for the most part they are used in conjunction with other tools. By studying techniques you come to understand the relationship between the tools and how they can be used until that magic day when you can think outside the box. Hope you don't mind, made a couple of curve adjustments to the first image and and added two different types of sharpening to the following images.

Two seperate curve adjustments


Slight shapening


Hipass

Hi there - don't worry, I take no offense! I know the technical side is my down fall and I am working on it with my mentor at home! Will post some of my shot later where I followed the technical advice above - thanks again everyone!!

Hi everyone -

Blog updated with my practice images!! It's http://dollyphotography.blogspot.com

Would appreciate your feedback once again (have at it, I can take it!)

The ones of your sister, right? Oh well, those are the ones I'm commenting on.

First off, the light in the first one is GORGEOUS. Her skin looks kind of yellow, though--I would do some color adjusting to make her look more people-colored.

Next, and possibly most importantly, I think every single one of these pictures could benefit from some amount of vignette. Raw has a great tool for that.

And finally, they're still coming out cool. Have you tried warming the color temp in raw?

I think the second one (closest one of her face) is your best try on this round, but I think the top is the one with the most potential, especially for what you're going for, and the blurred background helps. I think other people could probably give you better technical feedback and how-to's, but that's what I see so far.

I still think your pictures are coming out amazingly, Nicola! All of this is strictly based on what your stated goal is. You're very talented and definitely on the right track.

Hi Sarah - thanks for that !The colour temp on some was raised to a whopping 6000!! I sure do think it's my camera you know that makes them a bit cooler. Some more going on there within the next five of my mum!I will have a go at tweaking as per your suggestions, you have raised some really great points I hadn't noticed. How much do you recommend for a vignette if that makes sense?! I have put one on but it's obviously too subtle!! I haven't done it before so not sure how much is too much!!I did a wedding on Friday too but I haven't got my images back yet!! Can't wait to see them!P.S The last four posts are new (all the ones of my lovely family!)ps The last four posts are new (all those of my family!) I had another look and you are right - still coming out cool!! mmmm!!! What have I done there then?!

On the raw slider, I will usually start at -100 and see how it looks--on some of them it's just way too much, like a department store cheesy effect or something. If that's too much, I'll take it to -50 and compare. I actually have 100 and 50 saved as presets in raw, since I use them both so much. I just leave the midpoint at 50.

Here's a tip about vignetting, though--I totally recommend using it in raw, because it does like a true burn on your edges. If you go through the photoshop filters, it puts like a gray layer or something over the edges, and it especially looks really bad on lighter areas. If you have to do a vignette after you've gone into PS, say for cropping or something, use the burn tool.

As far as "how much is too much", I have one rule that I go by--if it looks good. That's how I do all my editing--I'm done when it looks good. I'm sure there are good technical rules, but for me, that trumps them all.

And as far as color temp goes--same thing! Push it past 6000 if you have to. It doesn't matter what the numbers say, it matters how it looks. Don't be afraid to really push it, really experiment and see what happens. If you need permission to cut loose and forget the rules, you have it!

Now go watch some Dead Poets Society, where they rip the pages out of the book.

OMG Love that movie!! I am at this moment trying to warm up the temperature. They really are still blue!! I am posting one here if you want to play ;-)

Just sent you a PM!