Hi all --

As mentioned above, I'm a newbie...plain & simple. Not much to say about that. Unfortunately, this isn't what I make my living at, although that would be the eventual goal. And if you've checked out the website -- yes...Smugmug for those who are snickering a bit -- you won't see much in the way of weddings so far. However, that is slowly changing with the referrals I have been getting due to my work with children and I need to gear up for what may be coming my way. SO with that said, I'm looking for some guidance in...well, a lot of things. But for the sake of trying to not overwhelm myself, I figure I need to find a good turnkey solution for my website, ordering and print fulfillment (including albums). Hence, the reason Smugmug sounded like a good solution for me (minus the album part since this hasn't been a concern of mine yet).

After reading quite a few threads regarding each of the areas I listed, I realize there are a lot of opinions about who the best companies are to work with. Actually, I'd love to have the opportunity to work with most, if not all the great vendors that have been mentioned. But I have to think practically since, again, this is a part time gig for me at this point. I'm looking for quality but also simplicity and affordability.

I'm leaning toward going with Big Folio or something similar to design a website that is a bit more professional, but keeping my client galleries with something like Digilabs so that all order fulfillment and payment processing can be done in one place. I just need that at this point. Presentation is also important to me so can anyone tell me how each type of product is presented with Digilabs?

I haven't 100% committed to going this route but it just seemed like the solution I was looking for. But I also know by reading these threads that there are many, many options available to this industry and it's always a good idea to solicit feedback so as not to miss an opportunity.

Thanks -- and I promise not to be such a lurker from now on.

Amy

No one? Really? Hmmm.

Hey amy!

The best way to expose your thread to more readers is to reply with the word bump. That is forum etiquette. You won't get many responses with the reply you posted before. It puts people off. This might have just gotten sifted down to the bottom. I doubt it was intentionally ignored.

I used smugmug for proofing until I switched to zenfolio last year. I don't know of a turnkey solution for prints AND albums. But zenfolio is great for me. I have a blu site, but I hear that bigfolio is great too.

I've never used it but I know BigFolio has an order fulfillment solution called NextProof that has integration with ProDPI Lab.

If you're already planning on getting a BF site you might consider bundling.

Thanks Damon & jmesser! I appreciate the feedback.

NextProof/BigFolio looks like a good option...I'll have to look more into that.
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And I've heard good things about ZenFolio too. Who do you use for your albums, jmesser?

KISS albums are definitely a good option. They are extremely easy to design, the print quality is outstanding, and the service is the best. If you are too busy to design, there are a number of design companies that will design and order the album for you making your life easy.

The other options you can look into are: Leather Craftsmen, Finao, GraphiStudio, Asuka, and more for your albums. For prints, WHCC is an excellent choice although I don't know of a "turnkey" solution YET (they purchased PickPic, so perhaps soon).

For websites BluDomain and BigFolio are the most popular. Blu has some upset clients on this board due to very poor service, but I have heard almost all positive about Big Folio. ShowIt Sites is gaining popularity as well. Some other places to check out are Livebooks and FlashPalette. Between all the companies, you can get something nice and professional set up.

We use Big Folio and Digilabs for our online proofing/fulfillment. Do I wish I had something where I wasn't losing a chunk to someone to fulfill orders but for now it works. At some point I'll prob move up to our own shopping cart type system, but not now.

If you visit our blog, click on the "your images" link at the bottom to go to our Digilabs gallery page.

Keep us posted on what you end up using!

Hello Amy,

I'm also looking for something like this - a turnkey solution as I'm just starting to build my business. Wanting to spend my cash wisely, I wasn't thrilled at the thought of large monthly fees for things I may not need at this point until I'm more established. After looking around and reading a lot of posts, I'm considering Collages.net. I'm not sure I'll be totally thrilled with it long term, but it has several options and starts out with one that does not commit me to monthly fees. I realize it may initially cost me a bit more in profits but at least I won't feel like I'll be spending money before I'm earning it.

Later on when I get a better feel for how all this works, I can always change to another option if necessary.

Any thoughts from others to help point me in a better direction are welcome!

Keep us posted.

Hey Amy,

Keep using Smug Mug! They are awesome and have some incredible new pro options coming very shortly! ... and they offer a discount to OSP members by clicking through www.SmugDJ.com.

Also, definitely focus on having a custom and unique website - not a template. It's really a simply problem everyone is seeing. Photographers who portray themselves in the same way as other photographers end up commoditizing themselves and getting paid the same as other photographers.

Thanks, David. I completely agree with you on the "template look" and I've been trying to tweak the look of it as much as I can within SM. Do you think a truly customized look is possible with SM or should I only use it for my galleries/order fulfillment?

And it still doesn't solve my album issue...unless you have heard they will also be adding that to their print options??? If that's not something I will be able to do, I'd love to hear your input on the albums you feel offer quality but reasonable pricing.

And thanks to all who posted!

Yea SmugMug is best used for online viewing and order fulfillment but your main web presence should be different and more presentation and personality based.

For albums I've used Queensberry but they are getting way to expensive so I'd suggest checking out Couturebook which has some cool offerings or Leathercraftsman for a more traditional look.

Amy...methinks David was having a little fun with you.




I would say it's more important to have unique images and a unique style that sets you apart. The website is the delivery tool. The images are the commodity. ;-)

We used Collages.net previously for about two years and I highly recommend it. As our business grew, it made more sense to us to bring everything in house, so we quit using them about a year and a half ago. We started out not committing to a monthly plan, until we grew enough that it made sense. They have options for print fullfillment. They also offer albums, press printed books, canvasses and greeting cards, now. I have not used any of those things, since they were just bringing them out when we left, but I have looked closely at them at trade shows and I really liked what I saw. I am not sure if they offer album design or not. Also, Collages.net had some of the best customer service we have experienced. They are awesome to work with.

I certainly wasn't having fun with anyone.

Shane - If you think clients can judge unique images/style you're fooling yourself...just ask your client to pick which pictures they'd like in their wedding album and you'll see they aren't a very good judge of "images"

....and if you don't think the delivery tool is important than we can agree to vastly disagree because I think the medium of delivery is incredibly important.

Yes, I agree that it's very important to have a great website.

But if the images are not great, it won't matter how good the web site is. I think you can promote your fantastic web sites and the idea that the photography is still important - at the same time.

You're right.... Clients are not good at picking out images for the album. But that's why they hire us. It's our job to tell them the story. It's their job to enjoy it. That doesn't mean they don't know a good thing when they see it.

Awesome. Appreciate it. While I don't want to downplay what SM does offer, I was finding limitations on what it could do to help me establish that 'wow' factor. Agree on your points on the visual impact of the site, and as much as I also agree with Shane that it has to be accompanied by great images, the way in which we deliver those to the customer makes it all come together. I don't know that you can be as effective with one if you don't have the other.

Thanks, guys!

Amy, great observation of smugmug - something a LOT of people apparently don't understand. It's a VERY primitive looking solution, with very little visual appeal compared to the many (better) solutions out there.... good images won't simply make smugmug itself look good.

Actually with SmugMug you can completely customize your look unlike every other solution out there.

Yeah, unless you want to self fulfill (which has pros & cons) or pay $1600 for a completely custom Photoreflect (not a good idea), Smugmug has decent customization but ... (their prints haven't come back great for us EVER)

Hey Matt,

Be ready for a really cool announcement soon

DJ: I was just about to switch over to Digilabs...should I wait?

Yea! For sure!

Tons of great feedback in here and clearly lots of smugmug fans, but I personally find it a bit lack luster in the way of presentation and efficiency. Hopefully this "cool new announcement" will be worthy!! I just left Digilabs and Pictage and am now trying out Instaproofs for my galleries and am suprisingly happy with them! Free, customizable, MY branding, shopping cart and unlimited photo galleries. Oh yeah, and did I say Free? For awhile I was hung up on having an "all inclusive" supplier but I've realized that paying a monthly fee for these services is just not neccessary if I dont need printing. After testing out Pictage, Digilabs and Smugmug, I have to say I wasn't totally thrilled with the quality of prints from any of them so I've decided to do all my prints through WHCC and keep my free gallery hosting through Instaproofs. My albums are done through KISS and sometimes Bon Match.WHCC quality is fantastic, amazingly affordable, and easy to work with. Instaproofs is proving to be the same for me. I wish someone had told me to go this route 2 years ago. lol The only thing I pay for now is my actual website, and that I'll likely be switching over to ShowIt sites soon.

Wonderful insight here from someone who obviously has the sense to understand how efficient self fulfillment can actually be. IT ISN'T THAT BAD PEOPLE! Not to mention that the money you spend on services like smugmug or (god forbid) pictage, could be put to better use like hiring a great assistant to fill orders and QC everything for you. In fact, you'd probably save money.

Sadly, smugmug has not delivered in the print quality arena due to their affiliation with a very consumer quality lab, not to mention that PROS want their proofing and ordering systems to look and feel integrated and branded to their unique style. That just doesn't happen when you have "smugmug" written all over your gallery (and yes, I've seen that even the "customized" smugmug galleries still have smugmug branding at least somewhere on the page - freakin lame.) Oh, and maybe it would be nice to use a system that is not readily available to the general public? Hmm...

And of course, there's that name. Many have been there before, as have I, so I won't go any further than to say that the name simply turns many people off. It sounds just flat out dumb.

Basically what it boils down to is that smugmug will, with this update, have to change MANY things to really start attracting more pro customers. I wish them the best of luck but I choose to take the high road and, like John, host my own proofing solution and handle my own orders to ensure that my clients get the best customer service and quality they could possibly dream of!