I've noticed several die-hard Obama supporters in the recent OSP Political poll thread.

I've got to ask why. Why do you support him?

1. Is it that he's willing to tax the wealthiest of America and cut taxes for the middle class? (If you answer yes, I'm appalled. For several reasons. )

- I want to be wealthy someday. And do you know what is considered 'wealthy' by Obama's camp? If you make over $150K a year. Now I'm not making that yet, but I wanna. If I do, I get to pay out the butt....hmmmm, maybe I should just be lazy and let the government take care of me.

- I think it's absolutely awful that 1.13 million Americans would pay more in all federal taxes than 128 million of their fellow citizens combined. The fairTax would be a much better option, imho.

- These folks don't just sit on their a$$es all day and eat bonbons (well most don't). They create jobs, they often pour huge amounts of money into philanthropic endeavors/ charities, and don't forget they BUY stuff...like huge wall portraits of their kids. Yet people love to hate 'em. Jealousy is an ugly thing.

2. He wants to raise the minimum wage?

Surely, as small business folks you can see that this in NOT a good thing.

3. He supports Universal Healthcare?

This is one of the things that TRULY scares me. As nice as UH sounds....having the government in charge of my healthcare choices is frightening. I experienced this phenomenon while in the military.....it's really bad folks. Really BAD.

4. War in Iraq?

What can I say? You either believe that Iraq is important or you don't. You either view our troops as a liberating force or you think of them as a occupying force. You either believe that overall Americans are hated or Americans are loved. I, personally, am not looking forward to the attacks that I believe will happen if we just turn our backs on this region. ('Cause I see us as a liberating force....but that's just me.)


5. Anybody but BUSH!

Yeah, we all know that Bush disappointed many with his decisions. But McCain ISN'T Bush!

As I'm reading Obama's Issues page on his site, I'm coming up with even more questions.....While I'm not a gung-ho supporter of McCain, I'm really frightened of the direction our country will go under Obama. Maybe I'm not seeing something that you "OBAMA 08!" folks are seeing.

Fill me in.

I'm a conservative voting for Obama.

One of the most important issues to ME is balance. I'm 100% sure having done politics & law for 7 yrs of my life that balance is necessary. Sometimes one party, sometimes the other. What matters is balance. Supreme Court needs balance. Laws need balance. The direction of Congress needs balance. And most importantly, the White House needs balance. Without it, we stagnate. Things change too fast one way or the other.

Say on Pay is a good idea.

Obama supports merit pay for teachers. He also wants higher teacher salaries, paid for by limiting our trips to Mars & stuff.

Obama introduced the BioFuels Security Act to reduce our oil consumption.

As far as health care, do a poll - how many self employed full time photographers have health insurance? I'd support ANY affordable health care right now. It's about $600 a MONTH here for insurance. 47 million people (out of 240 million) would go from UNCOVERED to covered by something - yes, I'll take that.

Obama supports environmental cleanup, moving toward cleaner energy, control of assault weapons, embryonic stem cell research that could cure or assist in curing MANY major illnesses...

I have *never* voted for a Democrat - but I will be for Obama. He's a DECENT human - th first such Presidential candidate we've had at least in my lifetime.

The first major obstacle to turning the economy around is turning around the economic policies - which means a change in the White House. Obama's election gets us moving a different way quicker than a McCain election.

that made my day.

1. Is it that he's willing to tax the wealthiest of America and cut taxes for the middle class? (If you answer yes, I'm appalled. For several reasons. )

Yes, I have no problem paying higher taxes (which I do) to support social programs.

2. He wants to raise the minimum wage?

So you don't think people should be able to earn a living wage, but instead turn to crime or welfare? Not very conservative of you.

3. He supports Universal Healthcare?

Yes, healthcare is a social right. Whether you have social insurance or private insurance, someone is making decisions for you. From my very personal experience in the industry, the private sector would find any way to screw over paying customers if the government didn't hold them in check.

4. War in Iraq?

Yes, the war is pointless. We didn't liberate anyone and created more problems than we solved involving ourselves in something many of us knew had nothing to do with 9/11. Bush had no problem convincing jingoistic Americans that we had to go attack anything with a remote connection to terror.

5. Anybody but BUSH!

Anyone but a republican.

Thanks for taking my question seriously. I knew I liked you for a reason.

We're so far into debt, someone is going to have to pay for our huge trade deficit and war debt. How the hell we can still pay out all this money for the war I'll never know. The Pentagon seriously needs a good accountant. You cannot spend,spend,spend and not raise some taxes somewhere.

Minimum Wage is a joke. How can anyone expect people to live on $12,000 a year in today's economy?

Oh and rich people and companies pour money into charities mostly because - IT'S A TAX WRITE OFF

How about stop giving HUGE tax credits to oil companies?

Obama is a complete 360 turn from Bush, McCain has not showed he's any different from Bush. He's kneeled down to Bush's policies so many times. And to think I thought McCain would have been a great president in 2000.

Hard to believe it's been 16 yrs and we're now back to "it's the economy stupid"

I have no idea what Obama can do abut Iraq. Talk about FUBAR. We started a war knowing NOTHING about the cultural area. Now the only way we get people to stop shooting at us is by paying them off. I have a Marine friend, and this is coming from him. But anything is better than what we have now. I'm tired of the BS experts saying if we leave, it will be worse for us. These are the same experts who claimed, "Mission Accomplished" Iraq never attacked us. Check out the British history in Iraq and see if they faired any better trying to accomplish "democracy". Better yet, check out our history in 1953 of the Middle East and see why these people don't trust anything we do.

You hear Obama has no experience. And Bush had some? Anyone remember what this guy did during his first 6 months in office except pay us off with $300-600 checks? Kennedy was bashed for not having any experience he's considered pretty high up on the best pres list.

Change is exactly what it means. We've had 8 years of GOP reign, step aside it's time for a new direction. Now that is unless you want Hagel or Paul in office which would be fine by me. What ever happened to the Goldwater days? Seems Rove knew how to hijack the USA and people have forgotten the true American spirit. It's not shopping at Wal-Mart for patriotism.

Crazy Chris

I just don't understand anyone who wants to pay more taxes. I am struggling to make ends meet, so I would be the first one to balk at higher taxes, but anyone that things the government needs more money that they can mismanage is not dealing with reality. Instead of campaigning for higher taxes for inefficient and wasteful programs, take the money you would have paid in taxes and give it to some charity. You would do much better than the government would.

Matt's post covered a lot of what I would have said.

Another issue which isn't as big but still important is that politicians are so used to sticking short-term band-aids on stuff because it gives them bumps in the polls. Case in point: McCain's and Clinton's pushing to put the gax tax on hiatus during the summer months. Sounds great, right? But Obama rightly pointed out that this is just a stunt, and would only save the average American around $30 over the summer (and that's assuming that gas companies don't raise prices by the same am't and pocket the difference). That's a small example, but I'd rather vote for the guy who isn't going to pander to me.

Necessary evil. I pay a premium for quality help I can rely on, i've never taken a minimum wage job nor paid someone at minimum wage. I expect more than the minimum so that's what they're going to get.


Merit pay is BS. Standardized tests are crap now-a-days. I know school districts that re-give the same tests until students reach an acceptable score, or sliding scales that are used internally. The tests are such a joke that you only get a "real" score if you're above the set minimum (usually 80%) otherwise you get that 80 score.

Teachers most definitely deserve higher pay, but not merit pay. Teachers are training our future leaders and millionaires they should get a little "somthin' somthin'" for that.

I really, really like Obama as a person and a leader, but I don't think I can vote for him because of taxes and health care.

We need to cut the m@th3rf0*k!ng waste and pork in government and spend wisely. People like Ted Stevens and his bridge to nowhere are the bane of my existence. I like the idea of the Fair Tax.

I don't like the idea of universal healthcare, just look at how our amazing leaders run the VA hospitals. No thanks!

At this point, I'm thinking No Confidence. :/

This is the hottest issue for me. If Canada and every other European nation can make it work why can't we? Healthcare here is a JOKE. My Dad was a hard working guy in the automobile industry his whole life. Dedicated teamster. He had heart problems and it sunk my parents into massive debt - which my Mom is still struggling to pay off after his death. I'm really worried about her in the next coming years. They had to put a full mortgage back on the house that they had just paid off after 30 years - and he HAD FULL INSURANCE. To make it even worse because he was too sick to work and had not yet fully retired the had to go on the COBRA plan and they had to pay close to $2K a month for insurance - plus 3K a month in prescriptions. He went on disability but that does not kick in for 6 months once your approved. They had 6 months with nothing coming in and 5K in basic medical expenses a month. My Mom was 62 when he died at first she was going to completely go without health insurance because she could not get approved for her own plan - simply because she has high blood pressure. She was turned down four times - then thank god the Teamsters came though for her with a plan - which she didn't even know about because it was in the very fine print of the life insurance policy. Something they would not do for my Dad when he was alive. I'm watching my disabled brother currently struggle to pay a $900 a month prescription because he's currently in a "donut hole" of his plan. If you get sick in this country it's over for you - your pretty much so going to loose everything you've worked for. My family almost has.

Sandra,
That is a real tragic story. I know the healthcare thing is horrible and the insurance industry is a big part of the problem. I don't think universal healthcare is the answer. I don't know what the answer is, but if you ask people in countries with universal government healthcare, they don't like it because they often have to wait or do without. Some even travel to the US to have emergency health procedures.

My wife is from South America and their health costs are much lower. Some people fly down there just to have surgery or dental work done. Imagine that. It is cheaper to buy a plane ticket and pay for services there than to find it locally here.

Dang! You'll be staying home in November then! All politicians pander. It's in their DNA.

Thanks for your replies Phil, I'm happy you are in that upper tax bracket and don't mind paying someone else's share, but I'm not there yet. I still struggle sometimes month to month...although that is getting better. I don't like how the current or Obama's proposed tax reform shifts the burden over to a smaller and smaller group...in effect penalizing high achievement. Additionally, it's been shown over and over that lowering taxes actually raised earnings.

Not sure I ever identified myself as a conservative.....but I am. A Libertarian conservative. I do think people should be able to earn a good living, and I feel they can if they give it any effort at all. They should care about their education and apply themselves to the job. People that show effort and initiative rise through the ranks quickly....earning more as they go. And, actually, raising the minimum wage often sends more low income people to welfare as employers let go of workers they can no longer afford. So now someone has NO job rather than a low-paying one.

Not sure I can agree that it is a social right. But I can agree that the industry (specifically medical insurance) will find any way to screw over paying customers if the government didn't hold them in check. Regulation is needed, but total governmental control is going to lead to shortages as doctors become scarce.

Ouch. Pointless? I personally know some folks that feel pretty liberated right now. They wholeheartedly feel that life is getting better over there and desperately hope that we don't leave them all alone before they can fend for themselves. (jingoistic - big word...nice. I like it when people use their vocabularies. )

Yeah, I'd really like to see a Libertarian in there!

I taught school for nine years - and merit pay for teachers is absurd. There are entirely too many factors to take into consideration. It will not work - it would be a disaster. I could explain why - but it would take a while.

I don't support universal healthcare. Going to any government agency is a nightmare. Everytime I move and have to go to the DMV I think what a disaster it would be if I were seeking healthcare. I do support tax incentives for those who purchase their own healthcare. IMHO opinion - people should purchase catastrophic insurance - and cover their "small" medical bills. If everyone did that - I guarantee you they would do more shopping around for price than they do when insurance covers it. I'm not cold hearted. I am all for helping those who need it. But I am not for supporting those who manage to pay for fake nails, cell phones, cable, etc - but can't seem to find the money to pay for insurance.

It drives me nuts when people assume that b/c Republicans are for offshore drilling that they are not for finding alternative sources. That couldn't be less true. In fact, I went to a lunch yesterday with our state representative and and he threw out a long list of ideas that I had not heard. Republicans are for BOTH.

I never wanted to make minimum wage, so I educated myself and put myself in a position where I wouldn't have to do so. If someone wants to make more than minimum wage - then they need to better themselves and find a better job. This is why I volunteer for the Choices Program. It is a GREAT program - you should check it out for volunteer opportunities near you. I am much more interested in empowering people to help themselves.

Who cares why rich people pour money into charities...they do it. And to say that they only do so because it is a write off is BS. You have no way of knowing that.

A 360 puts you right back where you started... I think you meant a 180º

A vote for Mccain is a vote for another crusty old white guy in a long line of crusty old white guys that only care about other crusty old white guys.

If I ever get around to registering I'd vote for anyone who isn't in that category.

Why McCain? Seriously.

I am an Obama supporter for every reason you listed you are not.

1) Taxes- as an accountant I know first hand what a burdon income taxes are, especially on the self employed. Percentage wise the higher income taxpayer does pay less then the working poor and the middle class. The middle class is choking with the price of fuel and groceries, we need to see some tax relief.

2) Minimum Wage- In California the minimum wage is $8.00 you would be lucky to buy a gallon of gas and a gallon of milk with $8 per hour, the working poor need to eat too.

3) Universal Healthcare- Damn straight, I have health insurance through my husbands employer, we are lucky. My parents were hard working teamsters who were promissed life long healthcare... that is a joke, I cannot tell you how many times my mom has had to make a choice on which of the perscriptions she can fill each month. Obama is offering us the same HC plan he receives in Congress... I can live with that.

4) Enviromental Clean up.... Yeah no debate, we made this mess and this administration has ignored it for 8 years, someone needs to deal with it and I think Americans are ready to do the hard work to save the planet for our children.

5) War in Iraq. Obama voted No to the war. I agree with that.

6) Anybody but Bush. That goes without saying, I think the country is ready for a fresh start, a new leader, new ideas, a new approach to dealing with old problems. I do not think he can get it all done, we are in such a mess, and who ever is the next President will have a long and difficult road ahead of him. We need a President that is thoughtful, strong, decisive but not bullheaded to lead this country out of the mess that President Bush lead us into.


Just my 2 cents.

Mel O

In that case, will you pay for my share as well? Please send me my share to the following address: XXX ... you get the point.

I don't like it when people force me to pay for a particular charity or program. That is why we have the choice of donating in most other areas. If someone likes to support certain social programs, then he/she is welcome to pay for them.

I worked hard for my money, so I would like to choose how I spend it instead of the government waste it for me. Right now, the harder I work, the more I get penalized. What would happen if we did this in school?

Good job Timmy on getting a 97! But Bobby over here only got a 61. How about you just give him 10 of your points so he can pass. That would never fly in school, so why in the real world. That is my thought on the topic.



Sadly, this is what I have been hearing from most of my friends as well. BUSH = Disaster, BUSH = Republican, Republican = Disaster.

I personally don't think it really matters this year which one wins. I think you see increased taxes and a worse economy. Hold on for the ride.

Raising the minimum wage won't work. Most anyone who has studied Macro Economics can clearly show that those who need minimum wage increases the most actually are hurt by it the most. I won't go into the theory here since I am sure anyone can Google it and find out why it didn't work in the past, nor will it now.

As a disclaimer, I do NOT support McCain in the slightest either.

This could get real heated real fast... I am going to go sit on the sidelines now.

I'm sorry, but I'm not a crusty old white guy. There are plenty of young, non-white (and I'm sure non-crusty!) people (including women) that are in the higher tax bracket. Again, it's not taking into account the issues by just voting for "anyone who isn't in that category" (crusty old white guys). Look back in history, several of our Democrat presidents would actually fit into the "crusty old white guy" category.

If Rachael is a crusty old white guy then I must be Minni Pearl.

You really stirred up the pot Ginger.

This is slightly off topic, but has anyone met a McCain supporter? Not just a "republican", but someone who really wanted McCain to be president? I saw my first ever McCain bumper sticker the other day and I have looked everywhere and all I can find are people who are for Obama or against Obama.

I'm from Arizona, so there are several here, but for me, he's not conservative enough on some issues.

[quote name='leicachris' date='July 2 2008, 01:34 PM' post='353942']
Hi Crazy Chris,

I agree we are way too much in debt and the government (not just the Pentagon) needs to learn basic bookkeeping practices. That's why I keep going to the FairTax. It would solve so very many of our countries economic woes and get the politicians hands out of the pot. But, honestly, from what I'm reading, Obama's spending will reduce in regards to the war, but increase on the social issues front.

It's not a joke, it's a starting place. Meant for folks new to the workforce. You are not supposed to stay at minimum wage, you should be able to move up by being a good worker. They wouldn't have TV, a car, a cell phone, but it can be done. But honestly, I wish people would think of this before moving out on their own and trying to raise families. *sigh*

It is a tax write off, but do you know how many times I forget to write it off? (I'm not rich btw....probably because of stuff like this. ) And does it matter why they give? I'm sure there are a number of charities out there that don't care why, just that they do!

HUGE tax credits to oil companies? It's all about politicians buying votes on this one. The oil industry is not the only one benefiting....not by a long shot. That's why the FairTax is so good, takes this power away from the politicians.

I'm afraid I feel that both the big candidates bow down to their respective parties too much. That's why I have little confidence in either.

Hard to believe it's been 16 yrs and we're now back to "it's the economy stupid" - agreed.

"We started a war knowing NOTHING about the cultural area." We being the general population....there are several Americans who know a great deal about the culture. Unfortunately, they are often ignored.

Bush is not running, so why does his name keep coming up?

Taxes:
Well, I'm not advocating taxing to allow people to sit around and do nothing, I can't stand that either. But there's a ton of investment we can make into the education system and healthcare and infrastructure. Why is it that countries like Denmark and others in Europe are happier than ours? They pay high taxes, but people are cared for.

Minimum wage:
I hate to say it, but there are people who, no matter how hard they try, will not be able to get well paying jobs. It's easy for us to say that any motivated individual can go out there and get a great job, but that is naive and untrue.

3. He supports Universal Healthcare?

I just visited Portugal, where my parents live; and health care there is wonderful compared to the US. One of my friends there is an MD there, and while it's not without its challenges, people have regular access to primary care, something 40 million Americans don't have.

Is Ireland worse than the US? What data do you have to back it up? From research I've read, the US ranks last among developed nations in a number of health indicators, so clearly we're not doing something well here. Again, it's easy to say people can purchase plans, but when the best people can get are minimum wage jobs without health benefits, health insurance sorta takes a back seat to feeding your family.

4. War in Iraq?

Hey, freedom is great and all; that just wasn't our battle to fight, especially when we've got so many issues here in our own country. We've been shown the war was started under false pretenses, and now we've got a destabilized country with a ton of infighting. Congrats GW!

5. Anybody but BUSH!

I was being somewhat facetious here, I'm willing to support anyone with a reasonable view, but at this point I can't find a republican I can agree with.

Sandra, I'm going to walk very softly here....your family has been through a lot and, understandably, your emotions run high with this topic. (BTW my family has experienced a bit of this ourselves, so you're not alone here).

Unfortunately, you have been misinformed somewhere along the lines. I've lived in France, their healthcare system is struggling. And they are not alone in Europe. Britain is suffering shortages of available services. Even Switzerland has moved to a more privatized form of universal healthcare due to all the troubles government run HC experiences. So your first line question is invalid. Just google european healthcare and see what comes up. It's a real eye-opener.

My Dad is a member of an union as well, but I think unions are inherently bad things. They often use strongarm tactics to secure their membership and they harbor a strong US vs THEM mentality that is unproductive. But I'm glad that, in your case, they were able to help your Mom. I wish they would...could... figure out a way to support their members without causing harm to non-members.

I hope those of you young enough to be reading this without health troubles will take Sandra's parents' plight to heart and secure yourself some disability insurance now - before you need it. My hubby's been fighting me on this, but I think I've got him convinced now how important it is! Health insurance is not disability insurance. It won't help you pay the bills if something catastrophic happens health-wise.

Interesting stuff indeed!
You do have a little more cushion, the tax increase would be for married couples over $250,000 and single filers over $200,000 Good [url="http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/27/news/economy/obama_wealthy_taxes/index.htm?postversion=2008062809"]article in CNN gives this a little meat.

Unfortunately our economic stance as a country has not faired well. Multiple factors have lead to our nation debt ballooning to unprecedented levels. There is going to have to be some factor to bring down the debt and stop our borrowing from other countries (although China loves that we sell them our dollars). We are either going to have to make revenue (raise taxes) or reduce spending (and a big ticket item is the DOD).
Over thirty states already raised their minimum wage above the federal minimum wage, you could say the federal government is a bit lagging in this area. Folks are putting a greater emphasis on what is a living wage now rather then a minimum wage. When I worked with the Iowa legislature, they thought there would be greater resistance by the state to increase the wage by small businesses. The fact is, small business was already more likely to be paying its employees over minimum wage and was not effected. The biggest concern that small business had was that it did not have any help in providing health insurance to it employees. They were asking for relief from the state to help keep premiums down. Unfortunately there was no good way to help them with out working on health care.

Now he certainly has not gone as far as to say socialized medicine. Realistically his plan is more similar to one of the physicians that is a Member of Congress. First, make sure no one can be turned away from coverage, and that they will be provided comprehensive benefits. This will do two things, make it more efficient to become covered, and secondly increase the insurance pool to drive down premiums. Make sure that the premiums are affordable, as well as any deductibles. Now, it is not public, because insurance companies are still part of the process, it just means there is more transparency. You still have choices, but you also have options. Think price shopping for MRIs, but with open and disclosed prices so you can compare hospitals and clinics and keep them competitive like every other business model out there.


I do not understand this logic though; you may have to clarify for me a bit. If we continue the course in Iraq, we are going to have to maintain spending, in order to do so we are either going to have to make revenue (raise taxes) or reduce spending (and our biggest spending is in the DOD). So do you support or oppose McCain's position to stay in Iraq without a timetable? If you do, then we are going to have to raise taxes. There is no way we can adequately keep our troops abroad if we do not have the financial resources to take care of them.

About the Iraq way, everyone will have their opinion. Iraq has been occupied, now it is time to turn it back over to the Iraqis, that was the initial reason for the surge after all. For me a big issue at this point is how we take care of them now while there are in combate, and when they come home. If we really cared about them, as General Petraus said, we would not have them forward deployed into areas it takes us two weeks to get them supplies and leave them as open targets and pawns (i.e. Put more budget or these folks that are two weeks from supplies are sitting ducks.) Barack had done a great job of outlining how he would improve mental health treatment and benefits for veterans. I for one want to make sure the folks that are fighting for me are taken care of abroad and when they come home.

Actually, when you are in a higher income bracket, you are not able to write off as much as those in a lower bracket. They hit maximums that they can write off. Whereas, I can write off anything I donate, because I am in a lower bracket. My mom and one of my sisters are both considered wealthy. They give whether they can write it off or not if it is something important to them. They don't give just so they can have tax write offs. I am in the lower tax brackets, I give because I care about the charities I give to. I don't give for the tax write off (even though I do write it off, when I remember to).

Concerning the grand idea that socialized medicine is the answer, I just don't get it. In England, people wait and wait to get care, but hey at least it is free. In other countries in Europe it is the same. I do think we need to better options for the self employed and to improve access to healthcare, but socialized medicine is just not going to be the great solution that people claim. It has been proven over and over again to not work.

My sister has many relatives on her husband's side who live in Canada. They have no incentive to work, so they don't. Many of them remain students until they are in their 40s or more, because that keeps them supported without having to get a job. I would much rather live in a country where your work matters and you can better yourself by working harder.

Rachel I'm refering to the president.. we've had nothing but crusty old white guys as president. I want to see what it's like with someone who isn't.

I actually hate Hillary.. she annoys me.. but I would vote for her if it was between her and a crusty old white guy.

I'd probably consider myself a tory but I'm not in the UK anymore and I've yet to vote in an American election. Now that I'm a citizen this year would be my 1st chance to vote but I don't really think our votes mean much outside of local elections (like mayor and congress) Having to choose between the lesser of 2 evils (democrat or republican) and then seeing some lose when they have won the popular vote because of some antiquated electoral college system really does nothing to boost my desire to go and register.

So on that note... I'm probably not voting anyway.

Wow, I did stir the pot! But the exchange of ideas/beliefs is good to see.

Rachael and Jill, I think you both have some excellent points and insights.

I can't continue to discuss so much today, gotta work! But I'll keep checking in to see what you all have to say.

I honestly don't understand why universal healthcare would be such a sticking point for you that you bring it up as a reason not to vote for Obama.

Having lived in Canada all my life, and been privileged to have universal healthcare here, I can't imagine paying $600 a month as Matt has mentioned. My healthcare here is $44/month. and as of January 1, 2009, will be $0/month here in Alberta.

yes, there are wait times, but there are also no deductibles either. My father in law had a heart attack last november while down in Phoenix. The medical bill totalled over $50K. Fortunately, he has health insurance coverage that covers him while down in the US. and only paid a small deductible. Had he had the heart attack here, there would have been no deductible even.

Just my $0.02.

[quote name='Phil P' date='July 2 2008, 03:00 PM' post='353998']
Taxes:
Well, I'm not advocating taxing to allow people to sit around and do nothing, I can't stand that either. But there's a ton of investment we can make into the education system and healthcare and infrastructure. Why is it that countries like Denmark and others in Europe are happier than ours? They pay high taxes, but people are cared for.

We don't really need to spend more money on education (and that is coming from a former educator). What we need is to reduce wasteful spending in education. When I taught school, I often didn't have money for what I needed. But it wasn't unusual for someone to come around and say, "We just got $1000 per teacher to spend on XXX (usually the money had to be spent on what I didn't need - not what I needed) - I need your order by this afternoon or we lose it." That is just a trivial example. And in Denmark - I think it would be more appropriate to say - those with a strong work ethic pay for the well cared for. My neighbor has relatives in Denmark - that work hard - but barely squeak by b/c of high taxes. She sends them candy for their kids at Easter b/c they can't afford it.


Minimum wage:
I hate to say it, but there are people who, no matter how hard they try, will not be able to get well paying jobs. It's easy for us to say that any motivated individual can go out there and get a great job, but that is naive and untrue.

Those who truly can't already get govenment support. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to work hard and make higher than minimum wage.

3. He supports Universal Healthcare?

I just visited Portugal, where my parents live; and health care there is wonderful compared to the US. One of my friends there is an MD there, and while it's not without its challenges, people have regular access to primary care, something 40 million Americans don't have.

Is Ireland worse than the US? What data do you have to back it up? From research I've read, the US ranks last among developed nations in a number of health indicators, so clearly we're not doing something well here. Again, it's easy to say people can purchase plans, but when the best people can get are minimum wage jobs without health benefits, health insurance sorta takes a back seat to feeding your family.

I'm not talking about people who truly can't afford to feed their family - they already get government healthcare. I'm not opposed to helping those people - but only if the reason they can't afford to feed their family is because the TRULY can't work. There are too many people (as we have mentioned before) who CAN afford luxuries (yes - cell phones, cable, fake nails, etc are luxuries, designer clothes) but expect someone else to foot the bill for their medical expenses.

Hey, freedom is great and all; that just wasn't our battle to fight, especially when we've got so many issues here in our own country. We've been shown the war was started under false pretenses, and now we've got a destabilized country with a ton of infighting. Congrats GW!

No - we have not been shown that the war was started under false pretenses - that is an outright lie.

No, my family is from Quebec. I completely understand how their system works and 100% agree with it. I think my relatives there are pretty well cared for with their system. i often wish my family would have just stayed in Canada.

I do agree with fair tax - $150K might be good money in Nebraska and Wisconsin - but out in Long Island - with the crazy real estate and high cost of living and such if you make $150K a year and have 2 kids - you're going to be struggling to make it month to month.

I'm also not fond of unions I consistently saw my Dad getting screwed over. One reason why I won't work for anyone and insist on being self employed.

<popping popcorn>

Pass the salt guys!

Nate... got any ice cold shots left? this is getting good!

Yeah, I purposefully didn't say anything about Canada because I have no first-hand knowledge of their system. I'll have to check it out. Glad you see the good in the FairTax....I feel like a parrot talking about it all the time, but I'm so tired of folks ignoring it when it has some real merit. My Dad, too. I think he's ready to get out. I think it's a large part of why I'm self-employed as well.

Sandra, you're correct about how the system runs here in Canada. As for Ginger's statement about googling European healthcare, well, I don't necessarily believe everything i read on the internet. There are plenty of bad stories about healthcare in pretty much every country in the world.

the problem is, that you don't necessarily hear all the good that goes on.

True....but it's all a lot of us have to go on. But good point. I guess the best we can do is read a lot....from many sources.

I will start off by saying, I doubt there is anyone out there who wants to increase taxes. Realistically, any political figure knows that folks are concerned about their pocket book. However, we had a $5 trillion surplus that has become a $4 trillion deficit during the last eight years. That equates to every child in this country owes $30,000 the day they are born, and that does not make a lot of economic sense. If a business ran that way, they would be taken to court for such practices. McCain does not have the best economic plan to turn this around; he is more contingent with sticking to Bush's tax breaks and making them permanent and remaining in the status quo.

No matter what we still have to provide for our veterans, defense, education, and the laundry list goes on…The level of increase (if congress approves it) would be between 4 and 5%. This is the same level of increase that happened in the 90's and there was not the significant detriment that folks speak of. So unless we get a hold of our debt, the dollar is going to remain weak and we will continue to feel more pain before we feel relief. $4 trillion debt, that is not a sound fiscal policy to model after.

Ironically, I have kettle corn at my desk right now

Crusty old white guy alert:

46 is the official new age to be a "Crusty old white guy"

William Jefferson Clinton. Born Aug 1946 -- Elected to president in 1992

Third youngest to ever serve in the office.

As an (almost) 44 year old, I'm glad I still have two years of sanity left!

I'd like to see Obama win just because I think it's about time we had a muslim president.

Hey you have not watched FIXED NEWS lately, now Obama hates Muslims!

matt R:

You're evil!

Random comments on what I've read.

1 - If you're not registered to vote, and you're not taking step to get registered, then shut up. Participate in the process, or shut up. Men and women have died to give you the privilege (it's not a right) to vote.

2 - Flat tax. The only fair and equitable way to handle financing our country.

3 - Tort reform. You want affordable health care? Stop the frivolous lawsuits that drive up premiums, cause excessive testing, and effectively are the main cause of uninsured folks that would otherwise have insurance. Some folks will never take responsibility for themselves, and will buy lottery tickets instead of insurance.

4 - Health insurance is not a "social right". The only necessities in life are food, shelter, and air. Everything else is a luxury. If you can't afford it, then you don't get it. That's not to say we should not help the poor and needy. A very famous Person once said that is the most important job we have on this earth.

Now, why Obama? To remind Americans what Democrats really do when they are in power. Obama gets elected in '08, and Congress gets a fresh infusion of Republicans in '10, and most likely a Republican President in '12. A man that promise undefined "change" is scary. You know what though? We don't have a good candidate this election. Bob Barr is closest for me, except that he's a libertarian. Libertarian's endorse the legalization of drugs. I don't for a second think that would come anywhere close to happening in this country, so I'm not concerned about that. There are Libertarian platforms I agree with, and some I don't, just like any other party.

I only know this for sure, and that is that anything that makes government bigger, gives government more intrusion into our lives, and takes more money into governments coffers, is not a good thing for the United States of America.

We (You) have done more for us (you) in the long haul than government has. Plain and simple. And the scary thing to me as a Black male typing this is that it strangely rings Republican, and in my short voting history I've always voted Democrat.

What are the tax rates in Canada for someone making 75k-100k? or a couple making 150-200k? This is not a stab, I seriously just want to know to be educated.

Right, but you also stated "that only care about other crusty old white guys." I don't believe that. Some candidates are looking out for all classes, not just the middle class. I feel that in general, Republicans have my best interest in mind with regards to business and family.

On a side note, what made you decide to move to the US and become a citizen?

Crap, too obvious?

And I so wanted to use this graphic:

Ok, I'm probably going to be the least popular person on this board after you read my personal thoughts.

On Obama, I think he's an amazing speaker who manages not to actually say anything.

My biggest issue with Obama is his foreign policy, and not necessarily even the war in Iraq. He has a very weak stance on most things, and that is simply not the image that we need as a nation right now.

On universal health care, I vote no way. I do however think that health care in the US needs a major overhaul. Having spent the last year and a half going to the doctor on an almost daily basis due to my cancer, I have really strong opinions on the US health system. I was fully insured when I got sick, my insurance has to date paid less than 1% of my bills. Yes, that's right less than 1%. Prior to getting sick, I owned multiple companies and was financially in a place where I could afford to never work another day in my life if I lived the average upper middle class lifestyle. I would not have called me rich. To date, I have paid out of pocket for my health care. To say it has been financially devastating is an understatement. Weekly prescriptions cost me more than 2k, A WEEK. That does not include any treatments I receive in the hospital. The amazing thing to me is that a hospital can refuse you treatment if you can't pay. One of the ladies in my chemo group was unable to pay for the rest of her treatment, and they cut her off! Apparently cancer treatment does not fall into required services.
All that to say that personally I think our only option as a nation is to eliminate health insurance. If you have ever lived in Central America, the health care system is not perfect but it works better than ours. You simply pay when you go to the doctor. It's affordable; in Panama an office visit will cost you $10-30. Prescriptions cost pretty much what a co-pay will cost you. Obviously, that can be difficult for someone to come up with if they are facing a serious illness, but we already have tax exempt healthcare savings plan set up in our country. Also, doctors in Panama make a very decent income and will generally work with you on a payment plan if necessary. It also puts you in a position of having so much more control over your treatment options and plan.

The max personal income tax rate is 46% which is taxed on income above a certain dollar figure. it's tiered up to the dollar figure from the tax free bracket of less than ~$8k in income up to that point. Last I checked, it was incomes of ~60K+ that were then being subject to the 46% tax.

that all is of course before deductions, writeoffs and other expenses that a person can write off.

Okay, if I'm reading McCain's great tax cut plan he would drop companies like Exxon,Wal-Mart,AT&T and JPMorgan's tax rate from 35% to 25%

WTF??? Less taxes for fortune 500 companies?

Wonder who's getting it in the rear?

Just a little over 200 years ago, the British made us pay for their debt ridden French Indian War. We started and won a little war partly because of that.

Let's just vote "none of above" and start over.