I am drowning in post-processing and am just now learning my LR as bridge is going to age me fast! I know I have been doing things the hard way and I am simply over it. I know there was a thread about workflow but cannot find it. The only thing I do fast is an album thanks to Album DS. But my editing needs to be way way faster. I also need to stop trying to fully edit each image.

If anyone knows of a thread that was already started about this..would you post it?

Thanks a million

There is a balance between working hard & working smart. Working hard means you put in the 5-45 hours to edit a wedding. Working smart means it's 5, not 45. Everyone knows that part.

The part that people skip is that you have ANOTHER balance - the balance between "perfection" and "done" - you can work as smart AND hard as you want but if you're going for perfection, it's 40 hours of work, suck up & deal.

I'm NOT going for perfection. I'm going for quickly quickly doing the best job I can - before diminishing returns set in. For me, that's about 5-7 hours from download to cart. All Lightroom, at least 99.9%.

Where are you losing time? Time yourself on all the components of workflow:

1) Download
2) Backup 1
3) Import/Culling
4) Editing
5) Photoshop
6) Backup 2
7) Slideshow?
8) Upload to cart
9) Release

Time yourself on your next wedding - post your results. From there, it's easy to diagnose. If you're losing 20 hours IM'ing friends when you're trying to edit that's easy. If you're spending 1 hour downloading cards, that's easy. If you're spending 30 hours in Lightroom - you're insane. No j/k but seriously, that can be fixed too. Workflow is one of the easiest things to improve but we have to know *specifically* what's going on with yours.

Everyone has their opinion on workflow.

Here's mine:

#1 - get it right in the camera - less work up front means less work at the back
#2 - pick a solution and don't change it - For instance I import my images to my Mac with PhotoMechanic (the fastest program out there), and then export the selects to Aperture, where I keyword and double check exposure and sharpness. I don't do any decoration to any pics until blog, or album or print order. I post proofs in all the galleries (and self-fulfill so I don't have to edit every one).
#3 - The more software you have to use the longer it is going to take.

If you have a specific workflow question, I'm all ears!

Thanks guys. I by no means am being efficient with my time and I am not proud to say it out loud. I over think the whole post-processing deal. See, my thing is that while I was doing portrait and commercial work the Bridge thing worked fine. Now, with 700+ images it is truly insane!! But I do not know LR yet and I have only heard of PM. I know where I am losing time and it is the fact that I didn't know any other way than to import to Bridge, backup , delete those I don't like, rename and then edit ON-BY-ONE!!!! Yep, go ahead and say it loud "that's stupid!".

So, now that I am admitting that I need help..haha...I am asking. Is PM any different than LR? Also, do I first import in LR and then after backing up and deleting the ones I don't like...do I then use presets (never used) and/or actions? Or is it best to only do minimal work except to a very select few? I totally agree about getting it right in camera and I would say that I am getting much much better at that as time goes on. Three years ago I would have to labor over an image fixing what I did wrong. ARGH.

So, for someone just starting out in LR or considering PM. Are there some really good first time tricks?

That's stupid!

(you asked)

PM vs. Lightroom isn't really a "comparison" - LR is a full editor, forward & back. As Eric said, he uses Aperture. PM and Aperture are TWO programs so by the admission that "the more programs, the longer it takes" simplify down to ONE program - Lightroom. Trust me here.... Lightroom is the best.workflow.solution.ever.(yet).created.

That problem you have above - here's what you do.

Download the files (Sandisk ImageMate card reader)
backup files to hd or dvd
Now, open LR and import the files.

Here comes the solution to your woes:

there are three flags next to "filter" - the middle one is "unflagged images." Click that.

Now, you're only viewing UNFLAGGED images.

Click the first image. If you want it, press P. If you don't, press X.

As soon as you push one or the other, it should disappear - because it's flagged and remember, you're only viewing the unflagged images. Keep flagging P/X until they're all gone. Now you've sorted your images out.

Uncheck the middle flag and check the first flag. Now you're viewing your keepers. Start editing.

(Editing is a whole other topic .. but this gets you sorted fast)

Lightroom has changed my life. 11 hours of shooting a wedding on Saturday. 1200 photos.

Sunday:

1. Copied to hard drive. Fast card reader, takes about twenty minutes tops.
2. Back up to DVD, another 15 minutes
3. Import to lightroom, one section of the day at a time, with keywords (ie: salon, getting ready, bride name, date). I also have a preset created that gives me a levels boost, saturation boost, a little vignette. I apply this at import. If I have got it right in camera (which is the most time efficient way) then this is all I have to do to the photo as far as PP goes.
4. In library mode, set to show unflagged pics only, use the "P" button to pick and the "X" button to reject (this tip came from Matt a while back, thank you saves sooo much time). I don't spend a lot of time analyzing. Just gut yes or no on the pics. I will go through the rejects a second quick time to make sure I didn't get rid of anything I shouldn't have.
5. Now set to show picked photos only. Go through and see if there were lighting scenarios I didn't get right. Fix the first of the series (in same lighting conditions) with adjustments and then select all with same issues and sync.
6. Export to a separate folder.
7. Back up to DVD.
8. Select few get some special PP in Photoshop because I want to. Not because they need to.

I was able to do the whole wedding on Sunday and that's with some tv watching, cooking dinner, and a movie in the evening.

I used to do it the same way you were. It was crazy. I hope this helps and if anyone can shave some steps off mine that would ROCK.

There is one more issue and that is of storage. When I'm done with PhotoMechanic - I delete all the non keepers (that can save a TON of Hard Drive Space)
Only the keepers remain. The more files your computer needs to index, the slower it goes.

OOhh. So True. I hadn't thought of this. I don't "delete". Hmm. Maybe after a wedding is delivered I will delete the non-keepers from the hard drive (as they are on the first DVD back up anyway).

Nothing more to add really but the fact that there are many lightroom presets which can start off your edit in a particular direction helps a lot. LR has changed my life as well.

I used to use Canon's DPP as my RAW converters but LR handles the files so much more efficient and the keep/dont keep options are quite simple.

PS, I use DJ's Brilliant LR presets and then those that I want to do more work with, I export to PS and hit them with Kubota and/or Totall RAD actions.

If you guys could hear me through this computer you would hear thank you so much you would turn of the speakers!!! Matt...I totally agree with it being s-t-u-p-i-d. Sometimes I have to learn things the super hard way but when it slaps me upside the head because it doesn't make sense then I am ready to change.

I am going to go through each of these steps everyone has provided and I believe I might have my life back. I am truly embarrassed to tell you how many hours it took me on this last wedding. I had the photos to them quick, but the computer was my head for hours on end.

Now...question on presets. They are done upon importing the files? Do you create your own? Also, do you do the same one on most of the files?

I have GOT to get this down pat by August because I have a handful of weddings starting then until October.

Thank you again. I am sure I will be back with questions

To help you with your preset question--presets can be applied at import, while in Lightroom or on export. It all depends on how you want to do it. Currently I do not apply any on import, but I'm planning on working on one similiar to what Sarah described above. You can make your own (I've made a few basic ones), you can search for free ones or you can buy sets.

Thanks for the above tip for sorting pics, I have used the flags but selecting to only view the unflagged ones will definitely help. I've been working very hard on being selective on the images I choose--that has helped cut down pp time and storage space.

I think Lightroom will really speed up your workflow time Lisa--it has SURE helped me. I used to do exactly what you have described and I am so much happier with my current workflow which is very similiar to those described above.

A great resource for me has been www.lightroomkillertips.com--there are even free presets about once a week.

i dont import with presets - i just edit the images when im done culling them.

Hey there. Believe me, I know. Just last year I was still bringing every photo into photoshop and doing adjustments that way. I could not believe it when I got Lightroom (the first time I used it I couldn't wrap my head around it and actually continued to photoshop my weddings) and really started using it. It didn't strike me as saving time until Matt's trick of P&X to sort. Suddenly, then it all came together.

I created my own preset with levels, saturation and vignette and apply it to all of them on import. I haven't bought any presets at this point. I have a couple that I've picked up from members along the way, but they are more specialized and usually I know when I see a photo if it will suit.

I'd recommend practicing the steps on small batches of photos to get the steps themselves down pat. Then try it on a wedding. That's how I did it and there's no looking back.

My next wedding, I'm going to take the laptop down to a cafe (with air conditioning) and sit and go through it in one fell swoop to see how long it takes. One thing about being at home is that I'm still wife and mom while I sit on the computer and I get frustrated with hubby and kids when I get interrupted. I've decided that a couple hours of not being here and "getting 'er done" is better than several hours of snapping at them while I work and getting interrupted to cook dinner or distracted by something else. I'll let you know how long it really takes from beginning to end.

I am excited to hear that there will be relief for me that I am ready to pull an all-nighter learning it. If you saw how I worked through this last one you might have asked if I needed professional help!!! haha. Ok, so I am in a crazy mood right now..but I am sorta serious.

I am going to look at that website for LR.

Oh, have any of you ever used Lynda.com for tutorials?

I forgot to ask another question about editing. Do you keep a RAW version and then have your edited version and both are numbered the same? Or do you just have your backup and then get the RAW file if needed later??

Maybe that is different when I start using LR??

I also use PhotoMechanic for the sorting/culling and I love it. It's sooooooo fast at previewing RAW files. I go through and tag all the ones I want to keep, and then once I'm done editing down the keepers, I choose the option to only view tagged photos and then I drag them into their own folder that I call "Final RAWs". Then I import them into Lightroom for the editing. I find it much easier to work this way than doing the sorting in Lightroom.

This way, I don't have to clog my hd with the raws I'm not keeping too. I keep them backed up but I don't have to keep them on my working machine while I'm working. You can apply keywords and IPTC data very quickly and easily in PhotoMechanic as well.

So, the only reason for PM is truly just to view and cull fast?

SUPER FAST

So Eric...what you are saying is that I should have PM with LR to make my life much easier???

Thanks!

+1000000000 for sure

Lisa, if you follow Matt's directions you can sort through your images incredibly quickly in LR. I don't own PM so don't know anything about it but LR is supposed to be a door to door program for you (with quick stops off in PS as needed).

If I understand your question about your RAW and edited files, the really great thing about LR is that there are no edited files. Not until you export them, anyway. What you are doing in LR is completely nondestructive editing--the RAW files (or jpgs for that matter) are never touched. LR is basically recording the series of actions/edits that you are doing to each image and only when when you export your files (to a full size jpg, email size jpg, tiff or whatever it is you want to save them as) are the edited versions created. Basically, when I am ready to upload to the lab or burn final images to the disc, I export the final copy of everything to a folder on my desktop, burn it to a disc or upload it (or whatever), and when I've done what I need I delete that folder. If I need those specific images again, I either pull out the disc I burned or I export new ones out of LR. The original RAW files sit happily on my hard drive and are never changed. The edits exist only in the LR database until I create new files during an export.

I hope that makes sense. I have to say it's a little mind bending but once you realize how LR works it's amazing.

I can't understand why PM would be faster than LR? I'm not dissing PM cause I've never used it, but LR loads the photos super quick, too and I can go through and pick the keepers in no time. Then I just sort by flags and delete the rejects. It's pretty quick. How is PM any faster??

Lisa,
When I first started out learning LR, I used the tutorials by Chris Orwig on LR via Lynda.com - they were AWESOME!!! It's just nice to have visuals that walk you thru every step of the process (seriously, Chris is an enthusiastic teacher and all but holds your hand at it)... It still took me a while to get the hang of things in LR post-tutorials, but that just comes with putting the program to use at a personal level.

I just second shot my first wedding and used LR to edit and the whole process took me less than 4 hours.

Oh, and on presets - they are AWESOME! You can select all your images - or maybe you just want to apply the preset (which you can preview ahead of time) to a few of your images - and hit "Sync" and it will apply it to all of them. THink of them as Photoshop Actions on hyperspeed!!

Speaking of Presets, does anyone know of any good ones? I'm curious about the Kubotas..

And also, not to hijack your thread Lisa, since this is on the same topic, but do you all keep your PSDs that get created in LR when you edit an image from LR into PS? (how's THAT for most use of acronoyms in one sentence!!!)

Hey Lisa! Check out Kevin Swan's tutorial on LR; it's great for getting a good workflow started!

I don't know how it is faster either...but it is.

Just for grins, download the demo and take 100 images in a folder and run a test: LR vs. PM. You won't believe it. That said, I tend to favor LR for the "one-stop shop."

Back to the workflow...does anyone care to share how, if they're using LR for culling, exposure and tone adjustments, they work PS into the mix for their TRA and Kubota actions?

I'm specifically interested in:
-sequence (when used)
-type (via image processor, SIE dashboard, batch)
-folder system to house iterations
-final archive (where do your iterations or finals end up residing)

I think I read where Matt A. deletes all from LR once he's done...assuming he just backs his final edits up and gets ready for the next gig to keep LR running tight.

I'm finding myself doing this:
-Ingest (pre-meta, keywords)
-Cull
-Virtual copy
-Exposure/color adjustments
-Export to folder
-Run ShowItEffects (use actions via the SIE dashboard) for specific actions (saved in sub folder)
-Run Image processor for batch effect (saved yet again in sub, sub-folder)
-Run sharpen (for prints)
-Upload to gallery for ordering

...now, I'm not quite sure how to handle all these "versions" outside of LR. And I'm not feeling good about the DAM make-up for LR at this point. Maybe I'm overlooking something...


-

Gail, thank you for that information and no worries on the hijack b/c I too am interested in that question What presets do you use? I am going over so many things at once that I am on overload. But I do get the hang of things pretty fast. Less than 4 hours? That rocks and is much better than my hen-peck editing I was doing in Bridge!!!!! THAT will make a person go gray in a second.

Nathan, I have been looking at some other tutorials, but will be sure to look at this one as well. THANK you.