Okay, for those of you who charge more then a few bucks for your services, I would like to pick your brain. First, what are people's reactions to what you charge? How do you handle the people that seem shocked and amazed at your high prices? How do you know how many people would actually pay for your services at your prices? And, if you are charging more then your family or friends can afford how do you handle that, do you find it hard to make a mental shift?
Any input would be appreciated. I find this concept very interesting. I am wondering how so many of you have handled it. Thanks!
Grace and Peace,
Crystal
Full Version: I REALLY want your $.02
I'd like to know too Crystal.. I am trying to set prices for my packages and since I am starting out, I really dont' know where to start. I have heard many people say not to charge too little as you would give off the impression as a budget photographer (and some people associate cheap with not very good quality). But just starting out, would people pay those higher prices?
Crystal,
I started out with fairly decent rates for sessions, around $150.00 in early 06. I have never had a question as to why my rates are what they are, etc. Things have risen gradually and I have a great clientele. As far as charging more than family and friends can afford, well it is what it is. I dont ever shoot family and rarely friends. It keeps things more business minded and it also avoids drama, etc. Most of my family and friends feel the need to pay me and I am the person that will NOT take their money, so I would rather refer them to someone else. I know it sounds strange, but it avoids a lot of hassle.
I recently read an article on people that were leery to hire a pro to capture their children’s' pictures because they didn't know that the photog could achieve the actual capture of who their child was at that moment. After reading people's comments, back and forth. etc., that reluctant person had considered Professional Photographer's to be what you would get from Sears, JC Penney, Picture People, etc. as a Photographer. Another consumer mentioned the difference and stated the difference in cost, and the naysayer was sold. Point is, hold tight and be true to you. You know you are worth it in talent as well as time, COG, Materials, etc.
My pricing helps to filter my clients. I know of a lot of others Photographers on OSP alone that are in my area that do great work and charge less. But it works for them as it does for me. If someone is put off by a pricey 8x10, not to be rude, then they can always find someone else willing to do it for less. My overhead in equipment, etc helps to keep me in check from charging too little, and if I am not the right fit in any event, there is always someone else that they can go to that is their fit.
Good luck and keep us posted!
I started out with fairly decent rates for sessions, around $150.00 in early 06. I have never had a question as to why my rates are what they are, etc. Things have risen gradually and I have a great clientele. As far as charging more than family and friends can afford, well it is what it is. I dont ever shoot family and rarely friends. It keeps things more business minded and it also avoids drama, etc. Most of my family and friends feel the need to pay me and I am the person that will NOT take their money, so I would rather refer them to someone else. I know it sounds strange, but it avoids a lot of hassle.
I recently read an article on people that were leery to hire a pro to capture their children’s' pictures because they didn't know that the photog could achieve the actual capture of who their child was at that moment. After reading people's comments, back and forth. etc., that reluctant person had considered Professional Photographer's to be what you would get from Sears, JC Penney, Picture People, etc. as a Photographer. Another consumer mentioned the difference and stated the difference in cost, and the naysayer was sold. Point is, hold tight and be true to you. You know you are worth it in talent as well as time, COG, Materials, etc.
My pricing helps to filter my clients. I know of a lot of others Photographers on OSP alone that are in my area that do great work and charge less. But it works for them as it does for me. If someone is put off by a pricey 8x10, not to be rude, then they can always find someone else willing to do it for less. My overhead in equipment, etc helps to keep me in check from charging too little, and if I am not the right fit in any event, there is always someone else that they can go to that is their fit.
Good luck and keep us posted!
I think for me it is interesting because as the family and friends go, they definitely would not spend as much on a photographer as what we charge. It was a mental shift, I was thinking "geez I cant imagine people would spend this much money on us. But as we really see what type of skill and talent it takes to actually get decent photos some of our family and friends realize the value of photography, and why it is more.
Raising prices just gets you into a new bracket. There are so many out there that people need photographers at all ranges, I know when we got married we had no photographer and no budget. Maybe for the whole thing $500 including dress (which I returned to the store with the tag still in tact) So raising prices just means that you need to find the people who VALUE photography more.
Raising prices just gets you into a new bracket. There are so many out there that people need photographers at all ranges, I know when we got married we had no photographer and no budget. Maybe for the whole thing $500 including dress (which I returned to the store with the tag still in tact) So raising prices just means that you need to find the people who VALUE photography more.
Prices are a tough thing. I'm not "SPENDY" compared to some photographers, but I live in a small area and I am fairly high around here (and want to go higher)
Part of charging more seems to include presenting one's self as higher end. I certainly get people who think I'm way to high, and have even had people simply hang up without so much as a goodbye (not kidding)
I will sometimes flex for someone who really wants me, but in general I get great clients who are interested, When their paying that much they aren't messing around, and you can bet they'll usually cooperate well.
It's no over nigh process, and I'm not the worlds expert on charging alot, but I keep inching up.
Part of charging more seems to include presenting one's self as higher end. I certainly get people who think I'm way to high, and have even had people simply hang up without so much as a goodbye (not kidding)
I will sometimes flex for someone who really wants me, but in general I get great clients who are interested, When their paying that much they aren't messing around, and you can bet they'll usually cooperate well.
It's no over nigh process, and I'm not the worlds expert on charging alot, but I keep inching up.
because when i charged less, i got the horrible ugly venues. its all a mental thing.
when you are about to buy something for your house, something that will require an investment, as much as you want to get a good deal, your concerned about quality arent you? so when you look at something and see its really cheap, arent you concerned your going to be getting cheap quality as well?
when you are about to buy something for your house, something that will require an investment, as much as you want to get a good deal, your concerned about quality arent you? so when you look at something and see its really cheap, arent you concerned your going to be getting cheap quality as well?
What you charge should be determined by your costs and by what people will pay for you. If your average package is $2500 but you are booking 90-100% of your interviews, you're way too cheap. If your average package is $3500 but you're booking 20%, you are probably too expensive. Try to keep your bookings between 25-75% and your pricing follows. We book roughly 40% of our interviews at around $3800 average. Last year we booked about 45% at $3200 and the year before we booked 80% at about $2500. Next year for 09 we've so far booked about 60% at 3800. You can see how once that 60% gets to 75%, pricing would definitely go up. We don't want it to even get here - we're raising prices next month for the 09 season. Just enough we hope to make it 50% at $4k. 
I read in an interview with Mike Colon where he said that the best decision he ever made for his business was to specifically target the high-end market after being in business for a few years. He purposefully turned down many jobs...even ones from past clients with established relationships if the job did not fit his new business plan. It was a sacrifice as there were no calls for a few months, but things started to roll eventually.
Wow, this is all really great information guys! I am very grateful for everyone responses so far. This whole concept continues to intrigue me...
Grace and Peace,
Crystal
Grace and Peace,
Crystal
One of the biggest portrait photographers in town opened her studio about 20 years ago. She didn't have alot of experience, but she set her prices high $95 for a 5x7, which was CRAZY 20 years ago, and still gets balked at today. Anyway she had the idea that if they really wanted her services, they would pay it. One debutaunte baby came along and that was it the ball started rolling. Her work is absolutley gourgeous, and her clients spend around $2000 for one family session. She recently retired and had her studio for sale for over 900K. She sold it to an artist who has never really touched a camera before, but it hasn't affected the business she make s just as much as the original owner because people equate the price with the quality.
The hardest thing isn't setting higher prices. IMO, it's setting appropriate prices. It's determining a price level at a point that will support your business, and make you a profit. Most people don't know what that number is for their business. That's your floor. From there you can edge up to the point where Matt talked about bookings falling off, whether it's weddings or portraits or whatever. Simply increase until you are working enough to be satisfied with your activity level and your income. There is no ceiling.
QUOTE(Charlotte @ June 30 2008, 09:47 AM) 
One of the biggest portrait photographers in town opened her studio about 20 years ago. She didn't have alot of experience, but she set her prices high $95 for a 5x7, which was CRAZY 20 years ago, and still gets balked at today. Anyway she had the idea that if they really wanted her services, they would pay it. One debutaunte baby came along and that was it the ball started rolling. Her work is absolutley gourgeous, and her clients spend around $2000 for one family session. She recently retired and had her studio for sale for over 900K. She sold it to an artist who has never really touched a camera before, but it hasn't affected the business she make s just as much as the original owner because people equate the price with the quality.
HOLY MOLY!!!!
It is hard, when my hubby and I got married we had no money as well. I think I spent all of 1,500 on our photographer and that was "pushing the budget" so when I started doing photography I started down there but after a while realized for the amount of work I was doing I was not even making minimum wages, let alone enough to cover taxes and other business expenses. We have recently been charging $3000 for wedding photography, and at first every time I would tell people that I would cringe inside waiting for them to balk at me. But the more I really understood that for the amount I was working on things, this was still just barley making me any money it became more natural, and since we have had an almost 99% booking rate at those prices this last year we are taking a HUGE leap of faith and raising prices to $6000. And you know I don't think I will have the mental problem saying that to clients like I did before because I've done the math and I know that for the amount of work I do, and for the amount I need to make every year to be able to let my hubby quit his job and stay home and just work with me. This is what I need to charge. So I think the big thing for me was UNDERSTANDING why you are charging what you are. That way it's not some huge random number you are telling people. It's an amount you've studied and gone over time and time again and know that it's just they way it's got to be if you want to stay a float.
Anyway, I didn't mean to write so much, but that's my .02 cents...
Anyway, I didn't mean to write so much, but that's my .02 cents...
pricing is not magic, it's math.
figuring out what to charge is a combination of knowing your costs (what is costs you to be in biz and make a profit) and what the market will bear.
i do not photograph friends and family - unless it is my gift, so i don't care if they can afford me, and this whole problem is partially why. they do not understand the costs of owning a biz. they see me as someone who takes pictures.
figuring out what to charge is a combination of knowing your costs (what is costs you to be in biz and make a profit) and what the market will bear.
i do not photograph friends and family - unless it is my gift, so i don't care if they can afford me, and this whole problem is partially why. they do not understand the costs of owning a biz. they see me as someone who takes pictures.
I currently have a price list and I give everyone 50% off PRODUCTS during this portfolio-building time (probably ending this in September). This way people can see what I will charge in the future with more experience and they feel like they're getting a good deal. They also can see what the real price is so they're not surprised when they want to book again or will know my prices when they refer friends. My session fee is flat and covers shooting and editing time, so I am compensated even if they don't buy anything. At some point, I will raise my prices by only giving 40% off, then 30% and so on. This way I don't have to keep revising my price list with higher prices. (To give credit where it's due, this was a suggestion from Cheryl Muhr at the Secret Workshop- which was wonderful and really just a tiny little nugget of what I learned there. I hope it's not a faux pas to share this. While I feel this was an important thing I learned at the workshop, this was maybe 5 minutes in 2 days, and I learned so much more than just this pearl.) I am also very forthcoming about this with people so they are conditioned to know that the price they are receiving is very likely to go up, and they have a sense of urgency about booking. It's honest and true.
I set my prices based on profit margin, production time, and how much I would need to be paid to be away from my family and with guidance from some other people.
For family, I gift what I can so I don't have to worry about it (and by sticking to my prices with others, I can afford to gift sessions and give 50% off products in the future. I also still invoice all gifts), but there are several in my family who can afford me and they will pay, so i will take their money if/when they want to hire me. I am lucky that we have another family business and our family is large so my extended family is already conditioned to not expect anything for free, but they know they will be "taken care of".
I recently struggled with this myself, when my brother wanted to commission some shots of business properties he owns. It will take five half-days to get the shots he wants based on what he is looking for and the locations of the businesses. I'm more into portraiture, so this isn't really my thing, but the instant cash will be nice and I actually am excited to shoot something a little out of my ordinary as a learning experience. So, I gave him 50% off my half-day rate and told him he could have a bulk order discount on prints which turns out to be a little less than 50% off of what's on my price sheet and he has to provide or compensate for travel. I sent it to him and he's going to hire me, but I decided that if he decided to pay less to someone else, I was okay with that. But the proposal I sent him was for the amount of money it would take for me to be away from relaxing at home or cleaning out my closet and feel good about it. He's my older brother, but I had a right to fair compensation for service I would be providing to support my business as much as he had a right to go somewhere else or ask me to make a deal if I was out of his budget. It doesn't mean he's not my brother if he hired someone else. I'm lucky to have a business-minded family, so everyone understands.
He and his wife can totally afford me for portraits, but they have another photographer they work with and like, so I'm glad they're loyal to him. His wife kind of balks at my prices anyway, but the pricing model her photographer has is just a little different, and really she pays more with him. They're not big order people though. They get a full session and buy a canvas and some Christmas cards and a couple prints. My last order bought the digital files, an album, 2 gift albums for grandparents, some senior info cards, some 8x10s (yes, even though they bought the files and could get their own printed) and a storyboard. Plus, that lady has my back and tells everyone at her kid's private school about me and has already referred me 2 clients in the last 3 weeks.
Lastly, we currently have another income in our house, so I am not reliant on photography money. However, I have set my prices so that with 2-3 portrait sessions a week, we could live off the photography income if the other income went away. I had a photography business on the side before, and I didn't like being the cheap person with headache clients. I never charged $0, but I didn't charge a lot, and it wasn't worth my time (I had a day job then and I wasn't charging enough to make it worth taking up my free time outside of work) and the headaches. And I didn't know how to raise my prices and transition to a different target market and I went back to being a hobbyist and enjoying photography again. This time around I have designed my business better and priced myself so that I still have me time and my business supports my life and not the other way around.
The worst thing I ever did in regards to my own photography business before was to charge too little or nothing. I'm not one to rail against the people who do, because I made that mistake before, and I believe they serve other segments of the market. I want people who like my work and are willing to bend over backwards for ME because THEY see the value in what I am doing for them (and I do take good care of them anyway). Those are the people I am marketing to. I can handle working a little less if it means the people I am working with are the people I want to work with. The others are just in a different market. If I'm over here selling Volkswagens and someone wants a Honda, I understand if they go somewhere else because I don't have what they need. No hard feelings.
Anyway, that's the long rambling story of my mental shift regarding pricing.
I set my prices based on profit margin, production time, and how much I would need to be paid to be away from my family and with guidance from some other people.
For family, I gift what I can so I don't have to worry about it (and by sticking to my prices with others, I can afford to gift sessions and give 50% off products in the future. I also still invoice all gifts), but there are several in my family who can afford me and they will pay, so i will take their money if/when they want to hire me. I am lucky that we have another family business and our family is large so my extended family is already conditioned to not expect anything for free, but they know they will be "taken care of".
I recently struggled with this myself, when my brother wanted to commission some shots of business properties he owns. It will take five half-days to get the shots he wants based on what he is looking for and the locations of the businesses. I'm more into portraiture, so this isn't really my thing, but the instant cash will be nice and I actually am excited to shoot something a little out of my ordinary as a learning experience. So, I gave him 50% off my half-day rate and told him he could have a bulk order discount on prints which turns out to be a little less than 50% off of what's on my price sheet and he has to provide or compensate for travel. I sent it to him and he's going to hire me, but I decided that if he decided to pay less to someone else, I was okay with that. But the proposal I sent him was for the amount of money it would take for me to be away from relaxing at home or cleaning out my closet and feel good about it. He's my older brother, but I had a right to fair compensation for service I would be providing to support my business as much as he had a right to go somewhere else or ask me to make a deal if I was out of his budget. It doesn't mean he's not my brother if he hired someone else. I'm lucky to have a business-minded family, so everyone understands.
He and his wife can totally afford me for portraits, but they have another photographer they work with and like, so I'm glad they're loyal to him. His wife kind of balks at my prices anyway, but the pricing model her photographer has is just a little different, and really she pays more with him. They're not big order people though. They get a full session and buy a canvas and some Christmas cards and a couple prints. My last order bought the digital files, an album, 2 gift albums for grandparents, some senior info cards, some 8x10s (yes, even though they bought the files and could get their own printed) and a storyboard. Plus, that lady has my back and tells everyone at her kid's private school about me and has already referred me 2 clients in the last 3 weeks.
Lastly, we currently have another income in our house, so I am not reliant on photography money. However, I have set my prices so that with 2-3 portrait sessions a week, we could live off the photography income if the other income went away. I had a photography business on the side before, and I didn't like being the cheap person with headache clients. I never charged $0, but I didn't charge a lot, and it wasn't worth my time (I had a day job then and I wasn't charging enough to make it worth taking up my free time outside of work) and the headaches. And I didn't know how to raise my prices and transition to a different target market and I went back to being a hobbyist and enjoying photography again. This time around I have designed my business better and priced myself so that I still have me time and my business supports my life and not the other way around.
The worst thing I ever did in regards to my own photography business before was to charge too little or nothing. I'm not one to rail against the people who do, because I made that mistake before, and I believe they serve other segments of the market. I want people who like my work and are willing to bend over backwards for ME because THEY see the value in what I am doing for them (and I do take good care of them anyway). Those are the people I am marketing to. I can handle working a little less if it means the people I am working with are the people I want to work with. The others are just in a different market. If I'm over here selling Volkswagens and someone wants a Honda, I understand if they go somewhere else because I don't have what they need. No hard feelings.
Anyway, that's the long rambling story of my mental shift regarding pricing.
This is a great thread.. I have had many pricing woes myself. I am seeing a huge difference in between the market I am getting now and the market I WANT. I don't want to be outrageous but I am looking to serve a certain market, and the bargain market isn't that market.. Not to be rude.. but a certain attitude often (not always) comes along with that market and it's been unpleasant more than once.
I started using ShootQ and I just found out that I am undercharging a lot based on what I charge for individual items. So, I did some price adjustments.
You make a very hard question for which there is no easy answer. Lots of formulas out there. It blows me away when I see that in average you can charge $4k in the States while in Puerto Rico it top off around $3,500.
There are many reasons for it.
At the moment I am focusing on my target market and looking into what I can do to make my offering unique and attractive to that target market.
I read somewhere that you want to get to a point in which your clients sees you as an investment and not as a cost in their wedding. Those kind of clients are more concern with what they are getting and not necessarily what is costing. I want to see if that plays out on my market.
PPA did a research study (is doing a new one right now) about the wedding market which is worth a look.
One thing for sure, when I got married I could not afford me.
You make a very hard question for which there is no easy answer. Lots of formulas out there. It blows me away when I see that in average you can charge $4k in the States while in Puerto Rico it top off around $3,500.
There are many reasons for it.
At the moment I am focusing on my target market and looking into what I can do to make my offering unique and attractive to that target market.
I read somewhere that you want to get to a point in which your clients sees you as an investment and not as a cost in their wedding. Those kind of clients are more concern with what they are getting and not necessarily what is costing. I want to see if that plays out on my market.
PPA did a research study (is doing a new one right now) about the wedding market which is worth a look.
One thing for sure, when I got married I could not afford me.
QUOTE(indygirlie @ June 30 2008, 01:41 PM)
The worst thing I ever did in regards to my own photography business before was to charge too little or nothing. I'm not one to rail against the people who do, because I made that mistake before, and I believe they serve other segments of the market. I want people who like my work and are willing to bend over backwards for ME because THEY see the value in what I am doing for them (and I do take good care of them anyway). Those are the people I am marketing to. I can handle working a little less if it means the people I am working with are the people I want to work with. The others are just in a different market. If I'm over here selling Volkswagens and someone wants a Honda, I understand if they go somewhere else because I don't have what they need. No hard feelings.
Anyway, that's the long rambling story of my mental shift regarding pricing.
Anyway, that's the long rambling story of my mental shift regarding pricing.
Hi Kristen.
I am struggling with this as well. Did you ever do free shoots to build your portfolio or just go off of a discounted rate. I did think about putting my targeted rate and offer a limited 'special' to boost my portfolio as well. How is that working for you?
Thanks!
Frances, I had a small side photo business about 6 years ago for a couple years. Then, I was doing lots of free portfolio-building shoots. It was very hard to get people to see the value in the photography when I was giving it away for free, and then I decided I wanted people to pay.
So, this time around (I had a detour in grad school and the real estate business) I am building my portfolio up again, and I'm charging while doing it. If it's family, I may gift the session fee, but everyone else pays the session fee and right now everyone gets 50% off products (prints, albums, canvases, digital files, etc.). That is my portfolio-building special pricing that I will probably stick with until the end of September.
i learned the hard way that if you set the precedent with free, it is hard to get money from people later.
David, Isn't ShootQ great for being able to see your profit-margins? It's so great for seeing at-a-glance what the margins are on your packages and goods.
So, this time around (I had a detour in grad school and the real estate business) I am building my portfolio up again, and I'm charging while doing it. If it's family, I may gift the session fee, but everyone else pays the session fee and right now everyone gets 50% off products (prints, albums, canvases, digital files, etc.). That is my portfolio-building special pricing that I will probably stick with until the end of September.
i learned the hard way that if you set the precedent with free, it is hard to get money from people later.
David, Isn't ShootQ great for being able to see your profit-margins? It's so great for seeing at-a-glance what the margins are on your packages and goods.
Hi Kristin.
Thank you so much for the insight. If you don't mind, may I adopt your business model? lol. I had been thinking about it, but was hesitant with the limited portfolio I have for pets. But I have posted on craigslist (i know i know, maybe not such a great place to get revenue) for free sessions and even then, I got like no responses. I suppose this time around I'll pass out my business cards to vendors and hopefully get more clientele.
Thank you so much for the insight. If you don't mind, may I adopt your business model? lol. I had been thinking about it, but was hesitant with the limited portfolio I have for pets. But I have posted on craigslist (i know i know, maybe not such a great place to get revenue) for free sessions and even then, I got like no responses. I suppose this time around I'll pass out my business cards to vendors and hopefully get more clientele.
QUOTE(Kadie Pangburn @ June 30 2008, 02:24 PM)
It is hard, when my hubby and I got married we had no money as well. I think I spent all of 1,500 on our photographer and that was "pushing the budget" so when I started doing photography I started down there but after a while realized for the amount of work I was doing I was not even making minimum wages, let alone enough to cover taxes and other business expenses. We have recently been charging $3000 for wedding photography, and at first every time I would tell people that I would cringe inside waiting for them to balk at me. But the more I really understood that for the amount I was working on things, this was still just barley making me any money it became more natural, and since we have had an almost 99% booking rate at those prices this last year we are taking a HUGE leap of faith and raising prices to $6000. And you know I don't think I will have the mental problem saying that to clients like I did before because I've done the math and I know that for the amount of work I do, and for the amount I need to make every year to be able to let my hubby quit his job and stay home and just work with me. This is what I need to charge. So I think the big thing for me was UNDERSTANDING why you are charging what you are. That way it's not some huge random number you are telling people. It's an amount you've studied and gone over time and time again and know that it's just they way it's got to be if you want to stay a float.
Anyway, I didn't mean to write so much, but that's my .02 cents...
Anyway, I didn't mean to write so much, but that's my .02 cents...
SAME HERE! we only i paid a friend $450 to do our wedding photos... we had nothing. and i do cringe inside when i talk about my pricing, but its starting to get a little easier thank goodness!!
QUOTE(Hayashi @ June 30 2008, 11:35 PM)
Hi Kristin.
Thank you so much for the insight. If you don't mind, may I adopt your business model? lol. I had been thinking about it, but was hesitant with the limited portfolio I have for pets. But I have posted on craigslist (i know i know, maybe not such a great place to get revenue) for free sessions and even then, I got like no responses. I suppose this time around I'll pass out my business cards to vendors and hopefully get more clientele.
Thank you so much for the insight. If you don't mind, may I adopt your business model? lol. I had been thinking about it, but was hesitant with the limited portfolio I have for pets. But I have posted on craigslist (i know i know, maybe not such a great place to get revenue) for free sessions and even then, I got like no responses. I suppose this time around I'll pass out my business cards to vendors and hopefully get more clientele.
It's not really MY business model as much as it's a business model I have adapted for myself after hearing a couple different ways of doing things at some workshops and doing lots of reading here and on other forums and researching the different business models for photography businesses. My pricing is for the most part modeled on advice from Cheryl Muhr. See if it works for you.
There are areas of my portfolio that I want to beef up and certain people with whom I want to work, so I will shoot for free if I want it for my portfolio (like the maternity shots I am currently editing). I am seeking out specific people and more than anything it's shooting for me more than for them. When that's the case, I haven't been charging. So, i don't want to let you think I haven't done any free sessions this time around. I have. But I have also been doing them on my own terms and look at them as an sweat equity in my business and even in the case of free I'm not giving everything away- usually they're just logo stamped web images. If they want prints or anything else they buy them at the 50% off.
If someone is commissioning something from me, then they pay my current discounted rates.
But I'm trying to always be shooting or editing for myself if I'm not doing it for someone else.
Regardless of what your prices are, you're always going to be "too expensive" to some people. If you charge $1000, you're going to be too expensive to the people who only want to spend $400. And if you charge $4000, you're too expensive for the people who want to spend $1000.
People will pay what they can afford to pay, assuming the they like your work and personality and are attracted by your marketing.
I, certainly, couldn't not afford to pay what we charge for photography.
Robin, you are brilliant.
Yes, it's basically a math problem. I posted a price-setting guide here. Basically it's a matter of figuring up your real costs and setting a decent wage, and your prices kind of determine themselves. It doesn't matter what people are "willing to pay." If you do the math, and can't get prices to pay what it costs to live and save and produce...
We set our prices in this manner, and we do fine. My wife and I both work at the business full time, and I generally find our prices to be "above average," but for our troubles we live in a 1616 sq ft home in a low cost-of-living, semi-rural part of Florida (no state income tax yeah!!) and drive a Honda Pilot. No X5 in my garage
However, we have health insurance and a retirement plan and a take a vacation or two every year, and generally enjoy life. But we are by no means "wealthy."
I don't really want to discuss specific numbers because they vary so widely from area to area, from product & service level to product & service level, and also...I hate to say it, but it's the internet, and people lie like crazy. There's some kind of bizarre pissing contest that goes on between photographers about "who charges the most for a wedding!" Don't believe anything you read
Thankfully, though, you don't actually have to. Did you know that parts of business IRS tax returns are actually publicly available? And that from a few simple internet searches you can derive the gross sales numbers for other photographers? And that...sad to say...in many cases, the numbers don't exactly match up between photographers' claims on the internet and their actual business tax returns?
So, don't pay attention to any numbers you get here. Just do your own math, figure out what you actually need to be profitable and fulfilled in your life, and charge that. If it turns out you can't get the dollar amounts you need to satisfy those requirements, create a plan that will allow you to achieve those goals. When it comes down to it, the only thing that doesn't lie is the numbers Pay attention to the numbers, and ignore egos (your own and those of others) and you can find a solution that will work for you
Cheers,
Matt
People will pay what they can afford to pay, assuming the they like your work and personality and are attracted by your marketing.
I, certainly, couldn't not afford to pay what we charge for photography.
QUOTE(Bellissima @ June 30 2008, 03:30 PM)
pricing is not magic, it's math.
figuring out what to charge is a combination of knowing your costs (what is costs you to be in biz and make a profit) and what the market will bear.
i do not photograph friends and family - unless it is my gift, so i don't care if they can afford me, and this whole problem is partially why. they do not understand the costs of owning a biz. they see me as someone who takes pictures.
figuring out what to charge is a combination of knowing your costs (what is costs you to be in biz and make a profit) and what the market will bear.
i do not photograph friends and family - unless it is my gift, so i don't care if they can afford me, and this whole problem is partially why. they do not understand the costs of owning a biz. they see me as someone who takes pictures.
Robin, you are brilliant.
Yes, it's basically a math problem. I posted a price-setting guide here. Basically it's a matter of figuring up your real costs and setting a decent wage, and your prices kind of determine themselves. It doesn't matter what people are "willing to pay." If you do the math, and can't get prices to pay what it costs to live and save and produce...
We set our prices in this manner, and we do fine. My wife and I both work at the business full time, and I generally find our prices to be "above average," but for our troubles we live in a 1616 sq ft home in a low cost-of-living, semi-rural part of Florida (no state income tax yeah!!) and drive a Honda Pilot. No X5 in my garage
However, we have health insurance and a retirement plan and a take a vacation or two every year, and generally enjoy life. But we are by no means "wealthy." I don't really want to discuss specific numbers because they vary so widely from area to area, from product & service level to product & service level, and also...I hate to say it, but it's the internet, and people lie like crazy. There's some kind of bizarre pissing contest that goes on between photographers about "who charges the most for a wedding!" Don't believe anything you read
Thankfully, though, you don't actually have to. Did you know that parts of business IRS tax returns are actually publicly available? And that from a few simple internet searches you can derive the gross sales numbers for other photographers? And that...sad to say...in many cases, the numbers don't exactly match up between photographers' claims on the internet and their actual business tax returns?
So, don't pay attention to any numbers you get here. Just do your own math, figure out what you actually need to be profitable and fulfilled in your life, and charge that. If it turns out you can't get the dollar amounts you need to satisfy those requirements, create a plan that will allow you to achieve those goals. When it comes down to it, the only thing that doesn't lie is the numbers
Pay attention to the numbers, and ignore egos (your own and those of others) and you can find a solution that will work for you Cheers,
Matt
brilliantly put, Matt
Great post Matt.
Lots of good advice in this thread.
Lots of good advice in this thread.
This "cost of doing business calculator" has been posted before by others but it has been incredibly helpful to me and so I'll post it again!
http://www.nppa.org/professional_developme...cdb/cdbcalc.cfm
http://www.nppa.org/professional_developme...cdb/cdbcalc.cfm
QUOTE(Matt Radlinski @ June 30 2008, 10:42 PM)
Regardless of what your prices are, you're always going to be "too expensive" to some people. If you charge $1000, you're going to be too expensive to the people who only want to spend $400. And if you charge $4000, you're too expensive for the people who want to spend $1000.
People will pay what they can afford to pay, assuming the they like your work and personality and are attracted by your marketing.
People will pay what they can afford to pay, assuming the they like your work and personality and are attracted by your marketing.
So true! As I'm going through price adjustment, I need to remember that our prices will always be too expensive for some people...but we don't want to book those people anyway! But still, it's scary to raise your price.
Great thread!
QUOTE(Cindy Lowe @ July 2 2008, 11:45 PM)
But still, it's scary to raise your price.
Worst thing that happens is, after a month of not booking well, you go back down to your old prices
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