Sorry to multi-thread (2) but I wasn't sure where to go with this:

A co-worker (at the day job) has asked me to design an album for his son's wedding. I did not shoot the wedding and I think he feels bad for not asking me (although, he didn't know I was shooting at that point), so he's trying to funnel some business my way. He's a sweet guy, so I don't mind helping him out. So, he brought me a disc with 800-1000 pictures on it and he wants an album with 50-60 images. Basically, I have full creative control - within reason, of course.

My question(s): What would you charge for the album design? Should I even do this? Is there a cost of photography to cost of album design ratio? If one charges X then album design should cost Y... I'm a photographer and I have no idea how to charge for this when they aren't my images. Like I said, I'm happy to help the guy out. But at the same time, I'm not a professional designer. It's going to take a lot of my personal time to develop this album. I don't think it's a service that should be given away.

Any suggestions/comments/criticisms? All greatly appreciated. Thanks!

I would charge a bit more (maybe 25% more?). And my reasoning is this - when it's my images, I know them intimately by the time I design an album. I already have an idea of what I want for the album design. With someone else's images, I'd have to rethink my whole process of designing it.

On the other hand, since they are giving you the images they want - it could either be good because you don't have to decide which images to choose or it could be worse because you don't have a creative choice in what to put in.

Actually the 50-60 images is just a number. Which 50-60 to use is up to (primarily) me.

Rich,

I would tell him to go to the original photographer first to see if they can produce an album. There's something not quite kosher to me about making money off someone else's work. Doesn't seem worth the hassle to me. In fact, I only see a downside. Instead of referral business, you'll get other people asking if you can do the same for them with their photographer's images.

Erm.... well...

Does he have a release from the photographer so you CAN create an album for him?
Do you want to risk angering/disappointing/offending someone you have to see every day if you don't do a good job (like you said, you've never done one)?

I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole, personally.

i do album layout design all the time.
only as a service to other photographers though, if a bride was contacting me for design, i'd either have to make sure they had permission for that, or tell them to have their photographer contact me.
but hey
i'll paste in my standard pricing and info thing, maybe it'll help you figure out what to charge.
--------------
$10 page (spread = 2 pages)
Images can be sent to me by ftp upload, on disk by mail, or i can download from your
hosting, up to you.
Online proofing (slideshow using showit web)
one revision included ($4.00 page for additional revisions)
final layouts will be your choice of, ftp download of (high res JPGs), or PSDs on disk.
NOTE: payment due in full before final layouts are made available.
--------------

Wow. Thanks a lot, you guys. I wasn't even looking at it that way... Should've tried seeing from the photographer's perspective first. I'll talk to my co-worker and see 1) If he has contacted the original photographer 2) If he has permission to out-source the album work 3) If it is even worth this hassle. Like Shane said, I don't think I want album design referrals (or negative-reviews, for that matter). I'm happy to do it as part of my photography package, but unless it's a photog-to-photog transaction the ethics radar starts sounding. Thank you, again.



Mark, thanks for sharing. Even if I end up not designing this particular album this is very useful information to tuck in my pocket. I appreciate it.

glad to help, that is something to think about in your own photography business, knowing how much you are charging for the labor is really good to know. helps you know the full costs for the products and services you offer.

Make sure you get it in WRITING from the other photographer if he gives his permission - I wouldn't just trust the client to say "sure, it's okay" then it become an issue later, you know?

Another good point. I'm the type of guy who would probably take him at his word and end up getting screwed. I appreciate it, Melody. Thank you!

I agree with that 100%!!!

I have done this one time. I had written permission from the photographer to create the book. (the photographer didn't offer coffee table books at the time and the bride wanted a coffee table book to give as a gift.)
I think I ended up charging around 3x the cost of the book once I added up how much time it would take me to design it.

Unfortunatley, I am in the same boat. My photographer never gave me my album. It has been about 1.5 years and nothing. I am contemplating whether I should make my own or have another photographer make mine. I guess I could just outsource the album to an album design company and have it sent to album company. You think they'll take personal orders like that?

1.5 years is a long time to wait for your wedding album.
since you're a photographer any album design company should be available to you.
as long as you have permission to use the images in that way.
i'd say find a designer that has the style you want, and go for it.

Well I have the high resolution files. But not sure about permission. The photographer is MIA... And I've been contacting the photographer since last summer. I would really like to have my album, whether it be I get it from the photographer or I create my own. I just want to be able to share it with family.

they haven't responded in almost a year?
albums aren't exactly cheap, i personally wouldn't want to give money to a person that doesn't reply to their clients.
you have the high res files, get yourself a album.
if you want a all in one solution, kiss wedding books is partnered with i think 4 design companies, you order and upload your images and they take it from there.
there are also a few designers around on osp, myself and i think a few people are mentioned on this thread.

The photographer has responded, saying the 'album is coming.' Etc. But so far nothing. *shrug* I've kinda already figured that I won't ever receive my album and should take my own initiative to have it done myself. My wedding package had an album included, but oh'well.

Thanks for the KISS suggestion though and the link to the thread!!

I'm bumping this up because I just had a bridesmaid in a wedding I just shot ask me to create an album for her. Obviously she thinks she owns the rights, but it definitely feels gray to me. I mean, if she designs the album herself and an album company prints it, that album company is making money off something that the other photog offers. Do I follow a different set of rules since I am of the same profession? It just feels a little gray to me. No matter what I am not doing anything without seeing the contract first anyway, but I am trying to get my ducks in a row before it gets to the point where I have to say yes or no to taking the job.

Another thing I am worried about is that the images will be weak and then the album printing will also be poor despite my efforts. Or the images will suck and in turn the album will suck. I am already leaning heavily towards just saying no, but looking for some experience from others on this one.

We charge $15/spread + $1/image to design the layouts. We average about 2.5 images per page in a typical design, so that works out to about $10/page for the design.

We also handle the complete album (design/print/bind) using any of the top album people for the print/bind part: Graphi, Leather Craftsmen, Asuka, Zookbinders, VisionArt, Tuscany, Finao, etc.

Maybe I am seeing this too black and white or something...but if a photographer gives full resolution images to the bride isn't that part of the deal? I mean, what's to stop them from making books on snapfish, shutterfly or any other online website? And what is the difference between doing that and then asking another photographer to produce the album for you? I don't see it as a big deal to design an album for someone else.....and if the professional that shot the wedding has a problem with it then maybe they should have taken that into consideration before giving over all the images.

Am I totally out of line here?

You aren't out of line at all in my opinion. I tried to point out that exact fact in my post that some company is making money off the photographers work without the photographer getting a piece when the disc of images are given out. Whether the client designs it on their own or hires out, it isn't any different than prints really. Basically they bought the disc to get things done on their own at a lower price.

I don't think another photographer doing the design is breaking any rules unless it is specifically forbidden in the contract. I am still worried about being held accountable for poor images though. Poor quality images will create a poor quality album. That is a scary thing for me. But thanks for chiming in and letting me know how you feel about it.

Dana,

I totally agree with you. "if the professional that shot the wedding has a problem with it then maybe they should have taken that into consideration before giving over all the images". I have had a few brides call me to create their albums for them and they had all the high res files and I have had no problems. Obviously, if the images are in poor quality then I won't touch them.

I think that photographers that do not offer an album services are missing a few bolts in their heads. Even if they have another company design the album and process it they would still make money. We are here to present our clients with a well rounded service...not a turn and burn system. Can I get an AMEN.... ;0)

Amen... But it may not be their forte while they could be creative in one respect album design could very well be beyond their capabilities. Or just take up too much time if they are not proficient.