(this post is directed toward the wedding & portrait photography arena)

This PostSecret post and Second Shooter request made me think.

Just because you're a "professional photographer," doesn't mean you're good. It just means that you earn a living at it. This definition seems to sum up our line of work...

11. a person who earns a living in a sport or other occupation frequently engaged in by amateurs: a golf professional.

"Professional Photographer" is such a loose term, it cracks me up when used to convince someone else of ability; i.e. "Yes, I can take your picture. *I* am a professional photographer!"

If YOU could create a definition of what a Pro Photographer is (as a distinction of level of expert ability opposed to an amateur), what would it be? Is there be a way to differentiate between an amateur, novice and "professional" photographer? At what point are you no longer a newbie?

Because you know what an F-stop, ISO, Sunny 16 and shutter speed is, doesn't mean you should be considered a pro photographer that is capable of covering a wedding. Likewise, if you DON'T know those, it doesn't mean you're necessarily NOT capable either. Gear is an important element of our job, but you don't have to be a Gearhead to prove you've got what it takes.

Art is relative, I know... I'm just thinking with my fingers and wonder what you have to say.

What if the term Professional is applied to what you produce, not what you know? If you can produce consistant, marketable work. If think that would play into the part of being professional.

Acting professional is another part.

Running a profitable, organized business year after year could be another.

Hello my old friend. We haven't talked in a while. This is something that seems to roll or stroll through my mind from time to time. This is SOOOO not going to be THE answer but more of a feeling I guess. I was finally comfortable defining myself as a professional photographer when these things lined up for me.... again, not THE answer just what made it right for me.

More than 10 weddings booked in a year

Professional equipment (i.e. Mark series cameras and L series lenses, an arsenal of flashes and remotes, stands and the like)

My income is supporting my shop expenses and meeting our monthly income that supplements my wifes income. (Not sure I said that right. We're making it)

I no longer can afford the time a 40 hour "job" takes

I have a steady stream of clients in more than one section of my photography (portraits, headshots, models) Hopefully some day the weddings will be the only thing.

Thinking with my fingers too, those are the things that my fingers think of, right off the tops of their heads.

I'm a professional photographer... I photograph professionals. Professional actors, professional doctors, professional teachers, professional librarians...

Oh, and I get paid to do so. I don't have a day-job other than raising 7 kids. Does that make me a Mom with a camera?

Leann

no, but it makes you one hellova woman!

Photography businesses are like opinions.

Everyone has one, or will have one someday!

And you know what opinions are like, so if P, then Q = Photography businesses stink!

to be a professional means to act with professionalism.
start there.

IMHO, it's not about the gear, the pay or even the images. it's about how you conduct yourself and treat the people that you consider to be clients.


shannon you are a professional.

Definition:
Professional: One who earns a living in a given or implied occupation


Technically, if you charge for what you do - you are professional.
The other question is how good you are at what you do. That is a totally different story.

Hey my customers love me and I work my tail off for them. Sorry for whining, I just want Robin to say I'm professional too.

you're a pro, mark.

i know that 'by definition' if you are paid you can call yourself a pro. but when i was 5, i got paid to serve lemonaide, and when i was 13 i got paid to take care of someone's kids, and i wouldn't call myself a chef or a childcare professional. i've had a LOT of JOBS in my life (i am pretty old), and while i work as an engineer, my PROFESSion is photography.

You know. I found an example that makes me realize how silly this all is.

If you go to a dentist. And he stinks, his practice is falling apart and goes out of business eventually, is he ever considered any less of a professional than the one down the street succeeding with the latest fancy gizmos's and all. Nope. Not one bit.

I'll have to agree that it has to do more with action and interaction with clients than with anything else.

I also fail to see how what you look for in a second shooter has to do with professionalism. Everyone wants a different type of second shooter. Some want ones with the right gear. Some people want ones that are great with people and kids. Some want ones that keep out of the way, get a few key shots and then get the heck out. Some want ones that know enough of the technical shtick to consistently get a properly exposed and composed photo so they can round out an album/CD (that's what I look for).

Different strokes for different folks right?

I 2nd that! Kuddos!

+1

Now THAT is unprofessional of us

Right

Tru dat

+1 and I you Robin!

Yes, it is, isn't it?

+1

+1 and the dentist analogy is right up our alley (except I don't think there are as many "amateur" dentists posing as a pro than we have in our industry).

Sorry Bryce... your analogy is flawed.

Dentists have to have a college degree PLUS spend an additional 4+ years in medical/dental school. They have to pass state required boards to open their practice. They have to maintain continuing education attendance to retain their licenses.

Photographers need a camera and a website.

As one photographer has emphatically told me during a discussion on the merits of testing and licensing photographers:

"We DON'T cut people open!" or drill their teeth, or do root canals...

In your analogy, the state government mandates that a dentist jump through many expensive hoops to be a professional.

All a photographer needs to be a professional is $2000 of stuff from Costco.

speak for yourself!!!!

So said Mrs. Hyde!

rut rho

i think i would rather be jeykle - wasnt jeykle the kinder, gentler of the two????? (which suits me to a T)

I think I need to read that book again...

just exactly what are you trying to imply? (runs to phone to check flights for kentucky....)

I gotta disagree with those two. Who needs a website? $90 of prints from Mpix (or equiv) and you can book weddings. Word of mouth from there and then spin it so that you "want to have a more personal relationship", and you've got an angle and a base to work from.You just have to work harder to book the first few weddings. And $2000? No way 2 used D70's 2 fifty 1.8's 2 used Sb-28's some gaffers tape over the model of the camera and most people won't be able to tell the difference.

And troy, you should know that i respect your opinion but ya missed it. In my analogy the dentist has to jump through many hoops to be considered a professional. Everyone knows that so no one questions it. Photographers don't have that, so they have to prove it in how they deal with their customers to get the proper respect to be considered a professional. Maybe that was a bit unclear... but that was the meaning.

Yeah, I know a couple photogs that got their start just with thier Flickr accounts.

But when I think back 10 years when I was married, I didn't know how to find vendors for my wedding, and certainly didn't use the internet to see what's out there. A friend was a photographer on the side of his day job (his dad too).

I just wish that people didn't have so many sucky photogs to choose from (did I just type that out loud?), and thinking they're PROFESSIONALS because they have a website/blog and charge $.

i disagree. this is a different world we are living in today - ten years ago when i got married, i did not have the internet and got stuck with shitty, crappy vendors.

i find everything i need now on the internet, if they dont have a website, i dont want to deal with them.

i think a lot of people feel that way - we (they) dont have time anymore to go 'shopping' for vendors. clicky clicky and they find what they want on the internet.

+1000000000000
My cousin hired a 5K wedding photographer who never once checked exposure and blew every last image out. She had one... literally one... acceptable image. The photog's answer was to the effect of "you saw my gallery" when she brought it up. It makes me simultaneously proud of my work and the people i work for but still so upset that brides have to get crap service and images....

I guess it depends on what you're going for then. Word of mouth is the most powerful advertising. It's a million times more effective than "clicky clicky" because you hear from someone that you know and trust about what they went through and how they felt through it. You may get better exposure with a website and more "cold bookings" but I don't see why you couldn't get along with word of mouth and a print portfolio and some old fashioned advertising.

I guess it's just a difference of opinions because for as much as I think it's possible to do, it's not something I would do (websites are too cheap and easy), and since I wouldn't do it I can't really make a strong case for it.

yes, they hear about you, then want to see your work, immediately and want to see your site.

Exactly... ease of doing business. I don't care if a friend raves about something, it also needs to be easy to do business with them. For many, the web is their storefront.

I'm probably going to open myself up to the firing range since I am a newbie here and in the industry, but oh well..

I think defining a pro photographer is really difficult to do. As much as it's technical and business driven at times, it's still art. Going back to what Red Hen said, being a pro doesn't make you good... or more specifically doesn't make you a good artist.

The equipment you use would vary depending on if you're a wedding pro, a food pro, a sports pro, etc. I came from the commercial world where I had to use a tripod. I LOVE my tripod. Do I ever use it on location for portraits? Everytime. I think it's because I'm used to it and love what I can use it for. Someone who never uses a tripod, will never use it and never think they need it. And they don't.. for their style. Not having it may limit what they can produce, or it may force them to think outside of the box in a different direction. It all depends on how creative they are.

You may be able to fake it till you make it not knowing F-stop and iso, but it will also greatly limit what you can produce. There are pro photographers in the commercial world that are brilliant but have no idea how to use their aperture. Are they pro? yes. Do they make more money than I do? YES. Does it matter I know more about aperture? NO.

A lot of these "professionals" will get burnt out quickly or learn REAL quick. How I distinguish someone that's been in business a while vs NOOB is look at their reprint pricing. If they are charging $.24 for a 4x6, NOOB. If they are charging $3, Semi-NOOB... and it goes on.

I once passed on a pricing calculator to a local photographer along with a "how to price" pdf. She asked me why I sent it to her? I told her that if she can do 4x6 FINISHED prints for $2.00 I'm sending a TON of work her way.. because I can't touch a finished product for $2. 8x10, $5... Really.. who can retouch, place the order and ship it out (self-fulfillment) for $5 and the key, MAKE A REASONABLE PROFIT?????

Good point. I wouldn't mind using one, I just don't want to lug it around I just saw a photog-for-hire that listed 4x6/5x7's at $2, 8x10's at $5, 11x14 at $10. Yikes.I know there isn't a suggested retail price for prints, but there should be a suggested don't-charge-that-little price listed somewhere