I have a question about sharpening and different print sizes. So far, I've only ordered 4x6 prints from WHCC. I size all of my JPEGS to 4x6, sharpen them a bit after sized, and upload via ROES to WHCC for printing.

Now, let's say your client orders different sizes (4x6,5x7,8x10) of the same image. Do you:

1) Do you upload your full sized highest resolution JPEGS and let ROES do all the sizing (and cropping on formats like 5x7 and 8x10). Do you sharpen those full size JPEGS at all before uploading?

or

2) Do you pre-size and crop all of the images to size in Photoshop, sharpen, and then upload? In other words, you create 4x6 images for the 4x6 prints, you create 5x7 images for the 5x7 prints, and 8x10 images for the 8x10 prints. This would let you sharpen each set at size, but probably lots of work and not necessary.

I only ask because I always thought it best to size your image first, then sharpen... but might not be most efficient.

Thanks for any insight.

Hi Steve!

When making my own prints on an inkjet, I sharpen myself. When printing at a lab, I always allow them to sharpen the image before printing.

Sharpening is a very destructive operation. Therefore, the only time you should ever sharpen anything is as the absolute last step before output, whether output is a web display or transmission to the printer. That means, when you capture, whether JPEG or RAW, always set sharpening to zero, and don't save your "finished" files with any sharpening, either, since the proper amount of sharpening depends on the dimensions of the final image.

Basically, don't do any sharpening of any kind until there are no modifications to the file at all before web display or printing.

Hope that helps.

Matt

Hi Matt

Thanks for the input, good advice. Yes, I should have mentioned I shoot RAW, and don't do any sharpening on my RAWS, Photoshop files, and the high resolution flattened JPEGS I shoot out at the end.

I think your comment "since the proper amount of sharpening depends on the dimensions of the final image" is what caused me to initially post. When dealing with labs, do you upload your biggest sized master JPEGS (with a touch of sharpening for printing), and let their software do the resizing? Then, you lose on the opportunity to sharpen at actual print sizes.

Or, do people create different sets of files (4x6, 5x7, 8x10) and sharpen each of those sets at size, then upload.

Whew, does that make sense? It sounds like you go the route of uploading files to a lab without sharpening, so do you upload one big file to be used for all print sizes (if applicable)?

I size the images appropriately for printing (for instance, I'll take a full-frame file and crop it to 8x10 at 250dpi or whatever), apply no sharpening, and send it to our lab, Reedy Photoprocess, to sharpen appropriately for the printer and image dimensions. Those closest to the printer have the best sharpening knowledge for their system

Hey Steve
Well this my be mundane but I use WHCC and I was instructed by one of the customer service ladies to re-size for each picture. So I have saved a 4x7 then a 5x7 then an 8x10 for each size if they are ordering the same picture in different sizes. I am not sure if that is what you are asking. Is it?

Hi Dawn

Thanks for the input, and yes that does help for sure. I will resize my images to print size prior to upload. I also spoke with Jeff at ProDPI and his advice was the same: resize before upload. ProDPI also does not apply any sharpening, so you would need to sharpen your images if desired after you resize them.

I don't think WHCC does any sharpening either.

And thanks again, Matt.

Steve and Dawn:
I'm working out the same issues that you first brought up in this post Steve - resizing images for print. So - question then - when you do your initial save of the image out of say, Photoshop, are you just saving the image at the highest setting (high enough say, for an 8x10), and then, making copies to resize down for the other sizes (4x6s, 5x7s). Are you saving those images you resize down? I'm just getting concerned about how much space on the computer these images could potentially take and would love to hear how someone's workflow goes doing this.

First time running photos thru WHCC and it can be a bit intimidating if you are newbie!

I process my image to perfection then save it (no sharpening). I then resize it to whatever size I am having printed and apply what sharpening I deem necessary at that time and save in an order folder. I do this with each size I am ordering (of course starting with the processed original). Takes a little more time but I have been happy with the results and if you are concerned about space you can delete the files that you saved in your order file once they have been deliverd and you are satisfied.

Just my process.

no pro lab should.

i also size every file for print, and slug the filename with the quantity of prints (eg ClientName_0459_8x10_3.jpg) for easy ordering in ROES.

We order through WHCC ROES and just upload the full size image and crop it in ROES to whatever size we need. I don't see any reason to size every file for print, that seems like a total waste of time to me. The only exception to this for us is if we are adding a special effect that needs to be added to the particular size in order to work, then we would crop it first, add the effect and then order it.I know when we first started using WHCC and you had to ftp the order in a folder you needed to size for each print and do all that. There is no reason whatsoever to do it if you are ordering through ROES.When we are ordering a whole bunch of 4x6 proof prints, we do downsize the images so that it doesn't take as long to upload.Miller's sharpens, I wish WHCC would.

Thanks for the other follow ups. All were helpful.

Gail, if you are still curious ,here's what I've been doing..

1. I keep my original unflattened edited PSD file (a bit of a space hog, but at this point in my development, I want to hold onto them)
2. I run a batch action in Photoshop on my PSDs to create Level 12 Quality flattened full size JPEGS. No sharpening at all.
3. I then run a batch action on the high quality JPEGS to size them to 4x6 prints @ 300dpi. The action also applies a bit of sharpening to the 4x6 files.
4. For any 8x10 requests, I size those by hand, because there are generally fewer requested and no sense having an 8x10 sized copy of each image.

So, the workflow produces 3 copies of the file.... 4 copies if I make an 8x10. After printing, I could toss images from steps 3 & 4.

I used ProDPI on my most recent order and was quite impressed -- nice color, clean B&W, sturdy packaging with no bent prints, and quick turnaround. I'll be switching to them. Sizing my images to print size reduces upload time in ROES, was recommended by Jeff at DPI, and also is a requirement for one of their services (Express)

Hope that helps,
Steve

steve, you shouldn't be saving to level 12 jpegs for WHCC.... they only require level 10, there is no quality difference between the two but the file size is very different... much smaller and quicker to upload.i don't really see why you would want a lab to have more control over your images. it seems... so backwards to me. why put the time into correcting your own image files for the results YOU want, only to have someone at a lab go back and make further changes? i have an action that applies just the amount of sharpening I want, and WHCC's prints look beautiful when I receive them. it takes maybe 1 extra second to apply the sharpening that i prefer during the action JPEG process, so it doesn't bother me one bit.

I guess we have different workflows. It would be a major PITA to resize, crop, and sharpen for each image that was ordered. The lab can sharpen based on the print size. I'm not a lab, nor do I want to be. I'll let them do what they do best.

Hi Meeks

Thanks for catching that. I meant to say I save my master JPEGS at Level 12. For the 4x6 prints, my action saves those at level 10. I suppose I could even save my master files at 10, but like having the level 12 masters, which never go to the lab.

yep, if you're going to do it that way, might as well not throw the quality away too fast if you're saving from jpeg to another jpeg. makes sense!