I was just reading the OSP Post about getting Kissed and using InDesign for album layouts. I have Indesign because I bought the Adobe creative suite... but have never used this program. can anyone offer up any information about getting started with it, how to get started, and if it really has helped them with album and brochure layouts??

Being that I have never ever used it should I buy the Kevin Swan video or will it be to advanced because I've never even opened the program....(until today)


Thanks for your help in advance!!!

Buy the video by Kevin Swan! I had never used indesign before but was able to design an album for the first time very quickly...It was well worth it

Very cool! Thank you!

InDesign is the perfect tool to create album designs. It makes a lot of sense when you think about it. It is so easy to use. I second swans video as a introduction to indesign. I designed my fist album just on kevin's video alone. But if you are in need of some additional help with the software, I really recommend lynda.com. They have video tutorials on just about any software for $25/mo.

One thing to keep in mind with Indesign is that it produces PDF files. Actually 1 file with many pages. Some album companies (KISS) will accept (even require) PDF format documents. If you need .jpgs or .tifffs then you need to convert the .pdf. In design itself can convert for you or use Adobe Acrobat, which you may already own in your CS Suite.

Enjoy InDesign.

I can't believe people design albums with anything other than InDesign. ID is created for the sole purpose of laying out multi-page documents: books, catalogs, brochures, and of course, albums. I use ID every single day at my FT job. You gotta go with ID! A bit of a learning curve, but will save you buckets of time in the long-run.

BTW, if necessary, convert PDFs in Photoshop. You have much more control over quality than you would exporting from Acrobat.

I'm so gonna have to buy the dvd. I'm very excited to design pages faster!! Thanks so much!Carlo Thanks for the heads up about the PDFs and lynda.com Chad, thanks for explaining the PDF's conversion perfect for me! OSP ROCKS!!I'm so gonna have to buy the dvd. I'm very excited to design pages faster!! Thanks so much!Carlo Thanks for the heads up about the PDFs and lynda.com Chad, thanks for explaining the PDF's conversion perfect for me! OSP ROCKS!!

You are right that Idesign is the best layout software. But it is costly and maybe an overkill for many users. Also, template software like Page gallery, Photojuction, YSI and many others provide ready to use template with a drag and drop ease that make page layout quick and very professional looking. That, among many other valid reasons people use software other than InDesign.

I have been checking out InDesign and I have a question maybe some one can help me with. After placing an image in Indesign if I increase it size it becomes pixelated. If I do the same thing in PS it does not become pixelated. Why does that happens? How it has to be done? That sort of disappointed me but I know I have to be missing something.

Someone suggested that they have to be made the right size in PS and then placed in InDesign. That does not make sense to me if one of the purpose of InDesign is to work faster. It appear to me that what I see in InDesign is sort of a low res representation of the real image. Am I right?

Carlos, (Kevin, correct me if I am wrong) I believe that InDesign CS3 does export jpgs.


Thanks,

ID CS3 does export jpegs, although it's a bit funky sometimes. they're going to correct this in ID CS4, but it's doable currently. However, KISS (and other good book vendors) take PDFs, which are directly exportable from InDesign.

to the OP - BUY KEVIN SWAN'S VIDEO! It's soooo worth it and will teach you everything you need to know to get going with ID album design.

Does Kevin covers how to resize images within ID in detail?

That is one of the issues that concerns me the most.

not in detail, from what i remember, but assuming that you've got a decent, native size image, you can upsize most images with no problems at all by simply dragging the corners.... it's really quite easy.

David, first off, you should never be up-rezzing in Photoshop! Additionally, your screen is never a good determination of resolution--there's no way for you to see better than 72dpi.

And, there is no better program out there that offers the level of control of images and type that InDesign does. There's a reason it's the industry standard (along with some Quark users), for page layout software.

To address the image question: In InDesign, raster images (and vectors), are representations of the actual image. If you want to see them full-res, you can change that setting in ID preferences under Display Performance. The reason for not previewing high quality raster images is to speed the program up.

To check the actual resolution of the image, you would in fact, need to open them in Photoshop. However, if you're placing Pictures you've taken, you're probably safe in assuming that the photos are hi-res, in which case you can use the Direct Selection Tool (the white arrow) to select the photo, which will show you the size percentage of the original image. In other words, if you select a photo and you see "200%" in the properties panel, your 300dpi image has essentially been reduced to 150dpi.

Hope this helps.

Yes, it does. Thanks. That is precisely what I thought I remembered.

But a differ with you in something. Just because InDesign is the standard for laying out magazines, offer incredible text control and allows you to do complex designs involving text it does not means that it is necessarily the best tool for laying out wedding albums. Compared to what InDesign was designed to handle, wedding albums are quite simple.

Of course, if you have the InDesign knowledge you will find it way easier to design your album in InDesign than in anything else out there. But for many of us it involves learning a completely new and different software that cost $700 that it is an overkill for album design. And, you begin with a blank page which can be daunting for many people. (that is why I am seeing more threads everyday of people requesting InDesign templates.)

On the other hand, Album Design Software was created with the idea of (1) make as simple as possible for photographers to design their albums and (2) utilize software that they already have... Photoshop. It comes with pre-made holes to place your images and it is as easy as drag and drop. It even add layers effects. Plus it allows you to tweak the layout in PS.

I am looking into InDesign only because I was given a copy of it as a gift and want to see if it offers me something that I don't already have or if it really makes design easier compare to what I already do. But if I had to buy InDesign I probably would not consider it.

Also, I don't understand why you say "I should never up-size images in PS". I not sure I necessarily agree with that. Are you suggesting that InDesign is better in up-resizing images? I would think that as Indesign is the standard to deal with page layouts PS is the standard to deal with images, including resizing.

David you really should buy kevin swan's video and STOP worrying about ID. Its honestly really simple man.

You're probably right. I'm a designer and am totally, 100% biased toward ID. I wouldn't even think about using anything else. I like starting with a blank page--I enjoy the creative freedom.

And, I never said to use InDesign to rez up photos--that's actually not possible. But, like I said, you should never, never, never, never, never up-rez photos in Photoshop. If you start with an image that is 500x500px @ 300dpi, you should never, ever increase the pixel dimension, or the dpi. You can always go down, never up.

The reason for the degradation is because bitmapped, or raster, image types are limited by their pixel resolution. When you attempt to resize these types of images, your software either has to increase the size of each individual pixel - resulting in a jagged image - or it has to "guess" at the best way to add pixels to the image to make it larger.

InDesign is giving you a proxy image--not full res--in layout. Enough that you can see what you're doing, but it's not going full res so it doesn't slow you down. You can trun on high-res preview, but it will slow to a crawl with a wedding album because it's all images.

I've seen many people export from InD without having all their images linked properly. If you place a photo in InD, it will have a link to that photo's location. If you move that photo, rename the folder, move the InD file, etc. InD will loose the connection to the high-res file. It will still show the low-res preview, but that won't print well at ALL. So, make sure your links are connected before exporting (InD will warn you if not).

If you're concerned, the best way to verify if your pictures are going to be pixelated at all is to look at the export. Export the page to a PDF or JPEG. The PDF settings KISS recommends are at http://www.kissweddingbooks.com/helpfiles/layouthelp.pdf. If you have CS3, you can export a high-res JPEG. If you're one of the unlucky, your high-res JPEG may have a dim bar across the bottom or even be missing part of your photo--but it will be VERY obvious. I've repeatedly made Adobe aware of this bug, and (so far) haven't seen any of it happening in InD CS4. Many (most?) people can export fine out of CS3.

My purpose in creating the InDesign video was solely for photographers who already owned the full CS and InDesign was sitting on their harddrives, dormant. I don't know that I'd push for folks to rush out and pay full retail for InDesign as a design tool for albums. I might steer them toward something like Photojunction if they're starting from scratch. As David said, InDesign is overkill for album production--but if you already own it, the video will show you the few tricks you need to make albums.

OK. I have a stupid question. I have templates that I've made or bought for Photoshop. Can I use them in InD? if not, can I convert them so I can? OR do I have to buy all new templates??

You can bring them into Indesign as a layer, draw boxes on top of them in InDesign, delete the photoshop layer, and then just drop your photos into the boxes you created when you're doing your layout.

K

YEP, I'm so going to buy your video. It sounds simple, just need to figure out the learning curve!!! Thank you!!

So it seems that if I’m going to uprez an image I should do that in Photoshop and not ID. What if I’m down-sampling an image? If I bring in a large image and then make it smaller will ID do as good a job as Photoshop?

Thanks,

JT

I do all my sizing in InDesign, not sure why you'd want to make more work for yourself...

Yes, once an image is placed in ID, you can make it larger or smaller according to your needs; there is no need to create exact sized image in PS for placement. However, as mentioned before, you need to be careful "up-rezzing" photos (though you're not really up-rezzing, rather sizing). A 300dpi image @ 200% in ID, is essentially reduced to 150dpi. To be safe, I never scale an image in ID larger than 120%.

Hope that helps.

Ok. I think we maybe talking about two different things. I meant making the image bigger not increasing resolution.

I increase the size of images all the time. I take an 8mp image and stretch it to fill a 24x12" space. It's nearly 200% (or more?) and it always looks rockin.'

If you export your file and look at it at 100%, you'll get a good idea of how it will print.

Chad is saying never go up, I say do it! Yes, you'll degrade the image--but usually it's fine. Always trust your eye when you look at the 100% size results in Photoshop after exporting. If it looks all jaggy, it will print as such. If it looks good on screen, it will usually smooth out a bit more in print (because of how pigments spread on paper).

Don't freak people out, Chad! hahah.

Thanks Kevin and Chad, you both clarify a lot of my concerns.

Like Kevin said, if you have InDesign you at least should give it a try. You already paid good money for one of the best layout software why spend more for just a bunch of templates unless you really need the templates to help you along.

And, yes, I will be buying Kevin's video.

Kevin, one of my fears is how InDesign handles layers... does it work just as in PS? Also, can you do textures for background in InDesign as easily as in PS? (Blending modes?)

Thanks, man!

Layers in InD are not as sophisticated or complicated as PS. For blending modes, etc, you'll want to do that in PS and then just plop the PSD straight into InD. If you hold option down and dbl-click on any image, it launches it in PS for a quick edit. When you save in PS, it updates in InD.

Thanks for all this info!

I opened up ID last night to try an 8x8 book for the first time. I had 30 or 40 photos that I exported out of LR at 4x6 by 300dpi to have printed. I thought these would be fine for an 8x8 because I would be adding at least two photos to each page. There was one page where I tried to size a photo larger then ID placed it on the page. When I exported the page as a jpg I could see there was a slight degradation to the image (probably not noticeable in print). If I had uprezed this same file in Photoshop I don’t think I would have seen any degradation (I only went up by about 10%). I’m going to go back and export that one photo as an 8x12 out of LR and I don’t think I will see any more problems.

Also, when you place photos on a page in ID do you use the rectangular frame tool, rectangle tool, or just place the photos in without using the tools?

Thanks,

JT

I followed your advice and bought Kevin's video.

Thanks to all...

I just watched Kevin's InDesign video and I must say... EXCELLENT!!!

I have to agree with everyone else that have said that if anyone want to use InDesign to do their album, Kevin's video is a must have for sure.

Kevin, I guess you now have to do a part two with more "advance" techniques" like how to do gradients between two images...

I do have a question. You were using CS2 and you said that the Export JPG didn't do hi res jpgs .Does that hold true for CS3 too?

I did one spread and I exported directly from InDesign to jpg and got a 7.5MB files. I also created a pdf file and opened in Acrobat Pro and exported the spread as jpg and got a much smaller file. 1.8. Did I miss something?

How do you do gradients between two images?

Yes, CS3 has the ability to export hi-res JPGs.

What do you mean "between two images"?

To create gradients, go the flyout menu on the swatch palette, and choose "new gradient swatch. There, you can select the two colors to gradiate. You can then use that swatch as a fill for frame. To adjust the gradient, use the gradient palette.

In PS I get two images. Each one in its own layer. Then select the top layer add a mask and using the gradient tool on the mask I "merge" both images.


Did I say Kevin's video rocks? Well, it does.

Oh. That's not possible in InDesign. You would have to create the image in PS, and then place it in ID.

Ok. Is there any "roundtrip" between PS and Id? Let say I have enlarge the image I want for background on In design , Can I somehow open that image on PS directly from ID, do the "merge" I am talking about and then return to Id?

Or, what would be the best way to handle that?

There sure is!

From the links palette, you can select the little pencil icon in the lower right-hand corner, which will take you over to PS real quickly. When you save the image and go back to ID, it will automatically update (make sure you don't change the name of the PS file. If you do, you'll need to re-link).

There also a way to double click on the image while holding down some shortcut key (ctrl, option) to do the same thing. Not sure of this shortcut though--I'm too used to the links palette.

You should be able to do gradients with images by going into the effects (where you do drop shadows, etc.) There's a gradient feather that adjusts opacity. Just turn on your "preview" and play with it until you get what you like. Place one image on top of another and play with the gradient.Works great!

To edit an image from InD to PS, just option double click it.

Thanks Guys!

I will test this new knowledge on my next album next week.

Thank again.

Kevin, I know you use Lightroom, but have you tested the Aperture-InDesign script?

I haven't yet. I have Aperture 2.0, and there's things I like--the album designer being one of them--but the lack of presets still kills me. There's going to be a LOT of cool plugins for Lightroom 2.0, just wait!

I totally agree with you. Apple should add presets in to Aperture.