OK, this is probably gonna be long. I need to be sure I am clear about what I want to know.

OK. So I would like to know what everyone does about sizing pictures. Here is the scenario. So you go out and shoot a wedding paying little attention to how the image is cropped. You get home and load your images, play with them in Bridge decide that some (or all) of your images need cropped. Do you just go into Photoshop and use the crop tool with a preset size? I had been doing that but then I realized that if the client wanted the shot in an 8x10 but I used a 5x7 crop tool that the picture would undergo some "unauthorized" cropping and it would no longer be cropped right or whole edges of the picture would be missing when it is printed!

Does everyone know what I am talking about? I hope I asked that question right. Normally I go in and crop every picture and use a preset cropping size, otherwise won't the original image size be too large for printing? I hope this makes sense!

I have always had this problem I have just never asked

sorry if this sounds a bit harsh, but first of all why are you shooting a wedding and not paying attention to how the images are framed? more importantly i guess, i don't think it's necessary to crop every image for proofing.

a couple of questions. what are you doing to preserve the original images when you crop them? are you using brdge's nondestructive crop tool or are you doing your crops in photoshop? have you considered using lightroom? full nondestructive editing at your fingertips, and well worth it.

whatever you do, do NOT under any circumstances crop and save your originals.... you do not want to lose parts of the image that you may need later.

I never go out and shoot anything without paying attention to the image. So I agree with Trevor, but I also don't want to sound harsh. But you have to admit that's a very haphazard way of capturing images that are very important to someone else.

And as for cropping, you raise an interesting question: how many of you wedding photographers crop your images?

I think I crop less than 1% of what I shoot, becuase I do shoot with intention, always striving to capture in camera the framing I want in the final. If a client wants to print an image cropped, they can do that, but I normally tell them how I shoot, and print, which is never cropped.

I'm really interested now to hear what others are doing.

To answer Bruce's question - I don't think I've cropped but only a handful of images - ever. I prefer to frame in camera - as I see it and as I want it seen. With the beauty of all our lenses, why would you want to rely on cropping to get the shot you want?

exactly my point!

and again, what i said wasn't meant to be taken personally by anyone, it just raises a lot of questions in my mind about how someone goes about shooting weddings like that.

i'm in the same boat with you guys, i hardly ever crop... only cropping i ever do is when it comes time to print odd (off aspect ratio) sizes.

OK, first let me make something very clear. I pay WAY TOO MUCH attention to how I crop because I was a film photographer way before I went digital. I was just trying to make myself understood. I actually have the reverse problem. I never want to crop but I need to because I need something to print in a certain size. I'm also not stupid enough to crop something then save it as the original.

Sheesh, I haven't posted in a while and this is what happens when I do.


So is anyone going to answer my question or just flame me?

I think it's smart to open each image that you want cropped to a certain size and crop them individually.

I can have all the creative vision I want, and have the picture just how I like it, but if my customer wants and 8x10 as opposed to the 8x12 I saw, they're gonna get it. So, I think that individual cropping is very necessary.

I don't think anyone meant to be so harsh. It just looks as if everyone got so caught up in your wording that they didn't even consider your question.

Amanda, I don't see where anyone is "flaming" you, but responding to your statement, "Here is the scenario. So you go out and shoot a wedding paying little attention to how the image is cropped." In my mind, you provided me with a clue to a much greater concern than your cropping needs, and since I rarely ever crop after capture, I felt you (and other OSPers) would be better served by addressing that.

Our thought processes and actual meaning are difficult to relay in an online post. I'm pretty certain that no flaming was meant.

To my knowledge, there is no way to accurately crop images in a batch. Note that I wrote "accurately". You can create an Action to crop groups of images, and there are others available that will crop to a pre-determined size. But the software cannot determine where the crop should be made. So if I am understanding your question(s), you will have to crop each images yourself. And if you are so concerened about what the client will do, given all the possible popular print sizes, you will then have to provide them every image cropped at every popular size. Otherwise you have no control over the outcome.

I was a film shooter for 20 years, so I know what you mean. So to clarify my own process, I simply inform my clients that I rarely crop the image, and if they order prints from me, the image is printed with a large border surrounding the full-frame image. I don't give them any other choice. That's how I display my work, so they are expecting it to be that way. But when I provide them images and they decide to print them at a popular size, I just don't worry about it. Given the number of images I have out there, it would drive me nuts!

The best thing for anyone is using Lightroom, not only can you crop using the same aspect ratio you can select 5:4 and aditional ratios from a quick pull down menu and also straighten the image instanly. using PS to crop and straighten compared to LR is as slower than driving on square wheels. You can also copy the crop to multiple images. If your not using a program like LR for large numbers of images life is passing by. Another point, all crops are not permanent like all LR edits are non destructive. I do my best to frame correctly but when being creative sometimes I can improve the composition with cropping and I do it often, sometimes it is just a tiny bit somtimes somthing I thought looked good wide looks better tight so with 12 MP I will crop the heck out of something if I think it looks better. so I will stand up here and say "My name is Steve and I do crop my images"

whoaaaaa.a...... back up. i see no flaming anywhere - just concern. your being overly sensitive because you asked something which caused concern amongst some seasoned professionals who wondered the same thing that probably dozens of others who viewed, but did not post their concern in this thread. why would you pay little attention to how you have framed the image?

its a valid concern.

I do some cropping...not alot...but when I do it's because I want to straighten out a horizon line or a building. And sometimes I will just want an image a bit tighter.

So....to answer your question I open the image in photoshop and size it to the dimensions that it came out of the camera. I shoot a 40d so my images are 10.8 x 16.2 @ 240 dpi. I don't know of that is the best way to do it...but I find it works well for me. As for printing...if a client wants an image...lets say 8x10 but that dimension does not fit the image...I will let them know that and they get it at 8x12 (same dimension as 4x6 and out of camera). If I think the image looks fine at whatever size they want...they can have it ...if I don't like it they get the closest size and have always been just fine with that. They are hiring us for our artistic eye and talent.

Open one of you images in photoshop. Go to image, then image size and see what size your images are. Then make a crop preset.

Hope that helps.

:-)

I think that I understand your question. I always keep my original file....Always, Always, Always. But I made a separte file and cropped all the images to 5X7. This is the images that my clients seen has their proofs. I mostly do High School Seniors and ran into alot of problems when it came time to print. If I framed the photo in my camera I could get a tight headshot and print a nice 8X10. But if the client wanted that SAME image in wallets.....then I was in trouble. They want the wallet to look just like the 8X10, and it is hard to explain to them that it will be slightly cropped to fit that size. So for awhile I over shot the image and spent alot of time on the computer cropping the image. The means behind this was that I had the tight shot to show them (finished proof of a 5X7) if I tried to make a wallet I would be cutting more of the image off to fit that measurement. So I would go back to the original and have the extra space to crop a new image to fit the wallet size. I finally stopped trying to please everyone and now show my original file and explain the best that I can that the images maybe cropped slightly to fit the needed size of print.

Thanks for the responses. I got mad before because I believe there was a more tactful way to address whether or not I paid attention to my cropping.

99% of the time people respond and are genuinely trying to help out. I misunderstood (and appears everyone else did too) what you were saying from the original post as "I just snap pictures and fix it in post". Given that's what people thought you were saying I think that the responses were well worded to alert you that there was a problem with that method.Now that we know what you were trying to say we can move on to addressing that, which I'll do now.



Only if I miss something in the background that really needs to go away for the final image. I provide images in a 4x6 ratio since that's what comes out of the camera and let the customer crop it to suit if they make their own prints. If they order through me (not really where my business is at right now), I'll crop the images they order.

I very rarely get involved in snippy posts, b/c I don't really see the point - especially when they stem from a post about sizing - I mean, come on, we're talking about sizing here! However, I feel compelled to respond since I've contributed in some way to your frustration. First, I apologize for making you feel as if you were being attacked. You have the right to ask a question that you genuinely need an answer to without fear of backlash. I apologize that I was not able to give you information that you were seeking; simply b/c I don't size the way you do (rather, I show as is and crop only through my lab's software), so I don't have knowledge of a good method for you.

All that being said, please re-read your original post - and do so in the context that most of us misunderstood a statement such as "so you go out and shoot a wedding paying little attention to how the image is cropped" . That, can obviously, be viewed negatively among photographers who think you many just point and shoot. The comments were to help you because, believe or not, many new posters on here really don't know the difference between composition and just shooting willy-nilly. I am very glad to hear that you do, and I looked at your pictures, they are beautiful. I have no doubt that you know what you are doing. The comment just seemed a bit unusual - and you even admitted in your first post that you weren't sure you were describing it correctly. So take a breath and realize that no, you did not describe it correctly, that (2) we apologize, and (3) would now like to help. And if it seems that not just one of us misinterpreted it, but many of us, you can hopefully see that no one meant harm. Bruce and Trevor were trying to help you - and your business - which is what OSP is for. So, while you have a right to be frustrated, hopefully you can take a step back and see that nothing that was said was malicious and in fact, Bruce was trying to incite a free-flowing conversation discussing styles and how others do this. If left its course, it might have been a great, informative post.

The one thing I did grimace on was that you became "mad" with angry face and all, because you felt we lacked the "tactful way" of responding that you were seeking. However, given your own, knee-jerk responses, they seem to leave something to be desired as well, which is unfortunate as I was interested in hearing others chime in on how they do it.

I do all my cropping in camera. I try to keep in mind while shooting that they **may** order an 8x10 and allow enough space to crop w/out important parts of photo being cropped out.

Most times my clients don't even notice the **slight** difference between a 4x6 and a cropped 5x7. (or other slight dimension changes)

After the client has ordered and prior to printing I just crop (to retain a similar look of the original in camera crop) in photoshop with the ORDERED dimensions, sharpen and send to print.

**IF** a print is ordered that it's going to significantly change the look of the photo (an 8x10 or a 10x20 or something crazy) then I send them a proof of the photo showing what it will look like and their options. They can order it as I have shown, they can order it (if it's an 8x10) as an 8x12, or other similar dimensions to the print without the excessive cropping, or I can put a border around it and they can order the print in the size they wish with the photo in the center.

I don't crop each photo. I never know what each client will order, and spending that much time in photoshop cropping to all the *possible* ordering dimensions would have me chained to my computer unnecessarily (well at least more so than I already am )

A lab told me the best way to crop an image to retain the best resolution in Photoshop is to set your Width: and Height: to your dimensions (8 x 10) but leave the Resolution: field blank (don't type 300, 240, etc. in the field).

Oh, and only crop when it's your final image. If not, then you can SAVE AS a separate file to retain the detail in the original. I save my crops by adding "_8x10" at the end of my file.

oh yeah, I forgot to add, for ordering I set up a file of all the sized, cropped sharpened files and I add the size extention label the the end of the filename as well.

And thanks for the tip on cropping without put in dpi Shannon


PS, I miss you, how you been?

I apologize for flipping out! I did word my original post poorly!
I just moved up north again and I'm semi-unemployed for the 2nd time in a year. I love being at home with my baby but lack of "adult time" is really getting to me! I find my nerves wearing thin a lot these days! Thanks for the help and concern.

I PM'd you (so I wouldn't thread jack).

we are here to help, please remember that first and foremost!

We don't crop proofs. We provide those full frame. We crop them when they are ordered, but never the original. We leave enough space so that they can order various sizes and we are still able to crop them to the appropriate size. Most of the time we do the crops in our labs ordering software. If there is a special effect on it, Adam crops it a gives it a different name before he gives it to me to order.

To further what Lynn said above, really the only time I need to size it in PS is if there's a vignette on the image. For most effects, cropping isn't necessary.

And Amanda, if you ever want to meet for a cup of coffee or something (for adult conversation), Lynn and I would be up for that.

you can correct vingettes in lightroom!

okay, let me start by saying that i'm always pretty shocked to see someone respond the way OP did. that being said, when i joined OSP i came from another forum which was more volatile than my parents' divorce, so go figure... i was on the defensive when it came to any slightly firm/honest post as well. however, keep in mind that OSP is a family - a great group of people - and once you begin to realize that, you'll understand that posts like the first 6 or 8 of this thread are not meant to harm but to help. it was an honest concern. there ARE noobies out there who point, shoot, crop later and don't give a crap about what they do. without any insight into how you do things, i was honestly left to worry "is this one of those people?" Well, i'm glad you aren't.

now, down to business.

pretty much the same as everyone else as said - i do not crop proofs at all. okay, maybe one or two if i REALLLY need to remove the fat lady distorted by the edges of my 16-35, but otherwise, proofs are uncropped. my shooting style is what it is. i don't intend to change that later. in fact, it drives me crazy when people order 8x10s or some sort of "cropped" aspect ratio print because i have to go clip out some part of the image! that being said, crops are only done upon ordering and export for print.

good luck!

We don't use lightroom. Adam's financial officer won't let him spend anymore money on software at the moment when he has plenty of options in what he already owns.