I recently switched to Mac and calibrated my Apple Cinema display monitor and got my test prints back. They are darker than what I see on the screen...should I re-calibrate or just know to lighten more? I don't want to take a shot in the dark when ordering, maybe I just need a different calibration system? Any thoughts?

My first thought is that you used a gamma of 1.8 rather than 2.2. 1.8 is standard for Macs and 2.2 is standard for Windows and labs. The 1.8 gamma will make things much brighter.

Go back and re-calibrate (what software are you using?) and make sure to set the gamma setting to 2.2.

If that's not the problem, you can call your lab and ask what that recommend for calibration -- they'll probably be able to help you out.

Thank you Adam!! I am using the Monoco Optix XR. I noticed that my icons on my dock seem to be very contrasty now that I used the Monoco. So, to me, it just does not seem right. This is my first time trying out ProDPI , so I wonder if their profiles are different? I just don't feel like my monitor is calibrated just right. I will try again with your suggestions and see where that gets me. Again, thank you

Hi Lisa,
I also use the Monoco Optix XR. One thing you have to manually tune is the brightness. You know how it asks what your room lighting is? That is where you can tweek it. Sounds like you have the your monitor set too brightly.
On the final screen when you are done with a "calibrate and profile" it will tell you your cd/m2 numbers, for whites you want about 110, for blacks something like .4 is good. Go back and forth between the room lighting screen and the final numbers until you achieve these numbers or something close.
Once you have that squared away, go back and do the profile only test to get the colors right for that brightness.
I wish you could just tell it what you want them set at and then you could tune to that rather than having to do it manually, kind of dumb the way the Monoco people did it!

Thanks Colin. I checked on what Adam said and I did see that the gamma was at 2.2 already. SO..I will go and try as you say and see how that works. I appreciate the tips, I just wish it was a little easier than that. Have you ever printed with ProDPI? I was surprised at the difference when I got my test prints. I am certain that it is something on my end and not theirs. So do you think I need to adjust for a room more dim or more bright???

Lisa,

Your room lights are extremely critical when doing a monitor to print match. We calibrate to industry standards at the lab and use the following settings. Some profiling tools will give you all control, I am not sure about monaco.

Color temperature: 6500k
Luminance: 120
Gamma: 2.2

You room lights and color temp of the bulbs will also affect how you are comparing. We recommend the use of daylight balanced halogen bulbs, not just daylight balance fluorescents. If you can open a daylight exposed window in your viewing area this will get you close. If you can imagine, color corrected in a dark room, your monitor is projecting light, however when viewing the prints in the same room, there is no light reflecting off of them resulting in a dark print.

If you can let me know of your viewing conditions when you reviewed your prints, this will help. If you have a standard desk lamp turn it on and view the print from 4-6 feet away.


Also, do you remember if you chose for the lab to color correct the sample prints?

Thanks!

Jeff

Prodpi.com

Lisa,
Everything Jeff said is right on. The color temp and brightness of the room makes a huge, noticeable difference when viewing the prints and comparing to the monitor.

-David

My favorite bulbs + a cheap Home Depot track light.

https://www.solux.net/cgi-bin/tlistore/soluxbulbs.html

When I was using WHCC, I had to use their printer profile to proof in PS.
I don't remember where you download it, but there's a quick keystroke to "proof" in PS, and it displays in the printer profile you've chosen for proofing.
Check into that.

With Mpix & Millers, I never need to do that because what I get from the lab is what I see on my screen, no printer profile proofing required.

Jeff, thank you SO much for your reply! I viewed the prints in a room with available light only. I didn't have a light on at the time. This is my first MAC and my monitor seems to be a little different to calibrate than my PC monitor. I know this is user error here I thought my prints were darker and with more color contrast than what I saw on my screen, but again, I don't know that I am calibrating it the best way. I appreciate the link and I will check into that. I LOVE the thickness of your photo paper and I am excited to see what they will look like when I get this monitor right. I am 95% sure I said to not color correct. I will have to see if my order form says anything about that. I will also use the color temp, luminance and gamma numbers you gave and try that as well.

Carey, I will definitely check into that. You don't remember where you found it do you? What do you calibrate your monitor with?

Pro PDI has been really good about helping me with calibration. I still have one tough print that they are working with me on. I did make a boo boo on a few....I could swear I converted them to Srgb, which is what they request...but on a few of them I did not, and that did make a difference on the reprint.

I can not speak for Jeff and the ProDPI team...but I called them and they were awesome at walking me though the process. I am using the Huey Pro and a dual monitor setup. Sometimes I think the huey system fights with the nvidia system of my videocard.

Hi Lisa, sorry, just saw your question.
Yes, I print some of my prints at ProDPI. They are just down the street from my wife's work so when I need stuff fast they are great. Plus, they have really nice shipping options for when you drop ship to clients, I really can't believe all labs don't follow suite! DPI is a great lab, they will always have at least some of my business.
I haven't seen much difference between ProDPI and Bay Photo Lab (one of my other labs). Of course I don't think I have ever had the same print done side by side at each, but I've never had problems with either matching my monitor.

I've seen very consistent results from both labs, that's why I stick to them.

you shouldnt need to download a printer profile for WHCC. all of my WHCC prints are exactly as i see the images on my monitor, thanks to the Spyder2Pro calibration system i've got. it really just depends on how accurately your system allows you to calibrate.

Colin, my blacks are .4 but my whites are 259.77...does that mean my screen is too bright??? I am going to go back and try again. If you have any thoughts it would be awesome! Thanks

So I reduced the brightness even more and now my blacks are .32 and whites are 220. I am not sure if this is going in the right direction?

I think I should just call support b/c now my blacks are back to .4 but my whites are 265!!! hmmm

Yup, that's too bright. I like the brightness when viewing photos on the monitor. However, when using for proofing and color matching to print. That's too bright. You want to be about 110-120 for LCD monitors. When you first achieve that brightness level, your LCD will appear dim to you. But you just need to adjust to it. Additionally, the brightness of your room's ambient light will change how you perceive your monitor's brightness level.

-David

Definitely too bright! If you can't get it down to 100-120 range, it might be time to replace the monitor with a model a few notches up. You don't have to spend a ton, but there are some good moderately priced screens that will give you proper calibration levels and in turn a good profile.


Oh just read the top, you are using a cinema display. Should be just fine in the quality department. I would start with 5-6 "squares" when you press the brightness keys on your keyboard. See what the calibration software reports back. I think my 30 is a little less than the middle on brightness.

Great..thanks guys. I appreciate it!! I do have a question...If I get it down to that number, my blacks drop as well, is that ok?

I'm baaaackkkk! try to not shoot me here Ok. I just did this again and I got the whites down to 129 BUT the blacks went down to .20 and now it just doesn't seem like it has enough contrast. I have used my Monaco Optix XR for a long time on my PCs with no problems, but I am having FITS with this cinema display. I need to get an order in and I am driving myself nuts! David, you are right, my monitor does seem dim, but you said I would get used to that. What do you think about the blacks level?

You should be just fine with the black level that you have. I would send in a few prints to your lab of choice and take a look now.


It is definitely strange at first, but your eyes will adjust in no time.

Thank you very much I appreciate your help with this! I need to send in some test prints. Have a great night

Lisa, the Spyder2Pro colorimeter is EXTREMELY easy to use. I calibrate my monitors ~twice a month and it takes about 10-15 minutes with me doing NOTHING but making sure the backlight on my monitor is set to a certain level. you may want to look into the Spyder2Pro or Spyder3Pro on amazon.com for around $170.00 and you'll never look back once you get one. They're great, very very accurate and easy to use systems.

Hi Lisa,
Yup, the black level looks good. The lower, the better because that just means you'll be able to reproduce more details in the darks. Whether you can see it or not depends on ambient light temperature and your desktop wallpaper or open items that has too much whites or black. However, the monitor will not look gorgeous like it did when it was uncalibrated and bright. However, the goal here is to match prints...and I am sure it should match much better now.

What you can do if you monitor supports multiple profiles is calibrate for both 120 and 250-300. Then simply switch between the two and load up the respective icc to your video LUT. However, doing it this way will lengthen the time it will take for you to be ok with the 120 brightness setting. Additionally, since the Cinema displays are control via software (I think it is since I don't see actual buttons, but I could be wrong because I don't own one) you may not have the multiple profile option.

At least you don't have the problem I do. I have a high gamut monitors. Those ones that reproduce close to the entire NTSC or AdobeRGB color space. You'd think that's a good thing. But in my case, it is horrible for surfing the web. In color management aware apps, it's great. Perfect. In the world WILD web...everything is oversaturated because a. Most browser does not understand about icc profiles...or b. The image on the web does not have a proper icc profile attached. So all the pictures gets mapped your monitor color space and thus everything is completely oversaturated. At least my prints comes out matching my monitor though. But using the Safari browser does help a little bit as it is ICC aware. Just wish companies like SmugMug doesn't strip out that profile when they resize your photo.

Let us know how the test print turns out. Take advantage of ProDPI's free test print feature if you haven't done so already. I am prepping up some images to send into them since I have heard amazing things about their service. Just remember to view the test print under a daylight corrected light source. I would go out and buy a desk lamp that is design for that purpose. They don't cost too much.

-David

This thread keeps getting buried so I can't keep up!

As far as I know, the lower the blacks the better. True black is 0 so .2 is more accurate than .4.
Contrast is a totally different control. Always be careful with things that *seem* right or wrong in instances like this; it could be that you are so used to seeing super contrasty images on your screen because the it was so bright and now it looks bad cause you aren't used to it? If you haven't already, go back and re-calibrate everything (but keep track of where your brightness is so you can just set it when you get there and know you are right) then everything should be perfect.
110 and .2 is a good setting, I think you are fine as long as all your other settings are corrected now as well. Mine is 109 .18 right now and perfectly matches prints at both DPI and Bay Photo under corrected lighting.
If you need me, PM so I can help sooner, I'm happy to do so.

David and Colin your explanations are EXCELLENT and I think I have got it now. I still think my whites could be a tad lower, but right now 117 whites and .18 blacks is so much better than what I was working with. I agree about being used to seeing images that are over saturated and contrasty. I was used to how this monitor came out of the box as it was beautiful. But boy was it horrible for editing. I am still getting used to it being more dim than before, but I am adjusting quickly. I am anxious to see the test prints. I have to say, I really like the photo paper quality of ProDPI!

Trevor, thanks for the heads up on the Sypder2Pro, but I am trying to not spend more than I have to right now. I have had to drop some $$ lately for things. My S5 has decided after 10 months to have focus issues and my S3 is only good for my backup. So I had to quickly get a D300, ugh! But I will keep it in mind for the future

Thank you again

Glad you got it all worked out!

Ok, just calibrated again...for those of you that understand what whites and blacks should be...is .18 for blacks and 108 for whites good? Or should I do again?