We were just thinking about all the time and effort it takes to get all the formals/shot list done and how it is this huge downer for most people and an interuption to the day. Then to compare it to how many of those images we really sell.

Anyone else feel the same pain?
How do you make out with the formals/sales?

I dont hate doing them but it is such a huge stop in the flow of the day. Fortunately lots of our brides dont want alot of them but we are worried about the parents that pay for all or part.
We were thinking of offering a short formal session of 4-5 shots? Would your brides balk and walk or would they be delerious about it?

If not, could offering to do some less formal groupings at the reception work?

Anyone have any experience in this area...

Good idea? Bad idea?

How are your formal sales???

We speak with our clients upfront and let them know traditional formal portraits are generally boring for everyone. We encourage clients to keep them as short as possible and do no more than 10 unless there's a very compelling reason. The flip side is that we're totally open to doing as many casual, fun bridal party pictures as we can, usually before the ceremony and a few of everyone afterwards. The tradeoff for most couples is worth it- almost everyone purchases the fun bridal party portraits but we rarely sell a significant number of 'family' portraits........
Just FYI though, my husband and I did 5 formal portraits for our wedding. We have all of them up in our house and have all of our close family and friends represented, so it is possible!! ;0)

Even though most of our work is more modern, and not that traditional. Our bride's still expect formals. We require them to submit a list to us, and we help them organize them when we do our final consult before the wedding. I work with an assistant to get through them as quickly as possible. We plant seeds to the wedding party that during the formals process that we need everyone as cooporative as possible, and that it's the only time of the day where they will be me be assertive. We typically do 25-30 formals per wedding, that includes the before and after pictures. Most of our bride and grooms do not see each other before the wedding. We feel like that is their personal choice. We avg about 45 secs per pose. So it goes pretty fast.

this is ONLY the formals...not the fun group shots. This is my usual process... I start with a larger group and work my way down:2. B&G with each set of parents, siblings+spouses+children, grandparents4. B&G w/ each set of parents siblings grandparents6. B&G w/ each set of parents 8. B w/ mother & G w/ mother10. B w/ father & G w/father12. B w/ grandparents & G w/ grandparents 14. B w/ attendants & G w/ attendants 15. B&G w/ entire wedding party & ministerthis is ONLY the formals...not the fun group shots. This is my usual process... I start with a larger group and work my way down:2. B&G with each set of parents, siblings+spouses+children, grandparents4. B&G w/ each set of parents siblings grandparents6. B&G w/ each set of parents 8. B w/ mother & G w/ mother10. B w/ father & G w/father12. B w/ grandparents & G w/ grandparents 14. B w/ attendants & G w/ attendants 15. B&G w/ entire wedding party & ministerthis is ONLY the formals...not the fun group shots. This is my usual process... I start with a larger group and work my way down:2. B&G with each set of parents, siblings+spouses+children, grandparents4. B&G w/ each set of parents siblings grandparents6. B&G w/ each set of parents 8. B w/ mother & G w/ mother10. B w/ father & G w/father12. B w/ grandparents & G w/ grandparents 14. B w/ attendants & G w/ attendants 15. B&G w/ entire wedding party & minister

what the heck happened above???!!! OSP quit working last night when I was trying to post. Forgive the weirdness.

this is what it is supposed to say:

this is ONLY the formals...not the fun group shots. This is my usual process... I start with a larger group and work my way down:
2. B&G with each set of parents, siblings+spouses+children, grandparents
4. B&G w/ each set of parents siblings grandparents
6. B&G w/ each set of parents
8. B w/ mother & G w/ mother
10. B w/ father & G w/father
12. B w/ grandparents & G w/ grandparents
14. B w/ attendants & G w/ attendants
15. B&G w/ entire wedding party & minister

The more you cut down your return to alter shots the happier everyone will be. No one ever orders enough to make it worth even 15 minutes of dealing with all the devorcy awkwardness. Do your self the best favor ever and at least limit it to immediate family and keep it under 15 minutes.

my2cnts

You are generally trying to satisfy two different generations here. We have shot as few as 4 shots and as much as 2 1/2 hours of formals (every combination in the book). But the paying mom (and maybe the bride too) wanted those. So you pretty much have to work out with the couple what they want/need to get. It truely does mess up the flow of trying to capture the PJ happenings though. I 2nd Jess, we start big group and whittle it down, so folks can get on to partying while formals are being finished up.

I have such a hard time with this...I really DO NOT enjoy formals but I live in Iowa...everyone's mother wants the traditional shots while the bride wants the fun ones...the MOB pays for our services so we usually end up doing both...but everyone's always exhausted by the time the ceremony actually gets there (most brides request to have the formals done before the ceremony around here...even though it says on my information sheet we prefer to do it afterwards!)
SO, how long do you all allow for formals? We try to keep it short but seem to find that when we talk with the bride a few weeks before the wedding, they usually add in a bunch of shots...they always get nervous..........ahhh!

i hate hate hate formals with a passion. what a time waster.

AMEN!! Everytime the recessional starts there is a little voice inside my head that says "Oh crap, now we do the formals..."

It's a wedding, not a photo shoot, but as others have observed when Mom and Dad are paying then their generation usually wants the pics taken!

The reason Kerri posted this was because we looked over our print sales this year and found that very few people ordered them, and other than some in the album (usually the larger group shots) to show who all was there it's a time waster, a stress builder (for the bride, family and the photographer) and such a break in the flow of the day.

I'd love to say tell potential clients that our shot list after the wedding is the following:

• Large group shot of whomever they want to designate to be in it,
• B&G with her side of the family (whomever she wants to be in it),
• B&G with her parents,
• B&G with his side of the family (whomever he wants to be in it),
• B&G with his parents
• Bridal Party
• B&G Alone (30 minutes max)

If they want a more formal and traditional approach to their wedding day, we're probably not the photographer for them. We don't post up formals in any of our slideshows (other than a few rare exceptions) and none on our website, so the clients that come to us are generally the B&G who want a more PJ candid style, but I believe it's the Mom & Dad (who are paying) that influence them to get the formals. ("You know, Uncle Bob is coming from so far away, we really need to get a shot of him with you...")

Hey, what about saying we'll do formals if they pre-order 11x14 of each pose they want and pay for it ahead of time....

I'd rather get into the reception and capture friends and family relating with each other rather than standing and staring into the camera...I know that sounds like it's about me and what I want to take, but it's about what you know will make a better flow for the couple if they have a PJ preference.

Thoughts? Are there photog's out there who really like the formals?

I don't like doing them for hours on end. I don't like doing them in dark churches. But, when I'm allowed to do them on MY terms, I love doing them

I really don't like them, and most couples don't like doing them, however, they are very important, and are usually what the family wants prints of. So, I try to keep the list (which we discuss before the wedding...I send them an example shot list) as simple as possible, although it does seem like more and more combinations get added by family members on the wedding day. I just do them as quickly as I can so I can move onto the fun stuff!

not trying to hijack this thread, but do you deal with people (family, whoever) that start trying to suggest or even direct who they think should be in which shot? I haven't had to deal with a real tight time crunch, just everyone wanting to get done and get to the reception, but it seems like there's almost always someone making the B & G unsure about whatever plan you had for doing things.

I have to agree, they are no fun to shoot, especially when you get a really "posey" family that has to have the "bride and groom with the step brothers best friends aunts grandma and her dog", kinda obscure relative shots that truely never sell. My stradegy is to get the B&G in one place, file in each group, three shots of each (for blink insurance) and on to the next group, strongly encouraging them to proceed to the reception after their photo so I can get the B&G alone for as long as possible for the bridals. Then in the album I will usually put only the ones the B&G have to have on one spread, fitting as many as possible in a collage-style layout, so they are happy. Many of my recent brides want none of the formals intheir books, they want all the romantic intimate shots of the two of them, and could care less about the family photos! Funny how everyone wants to stiffly pose for their photos, but they always respond more to the candid fun shots that I catch later at the reception. Those are the ones that sell in spades!