The true title should be Outsourcing vs. Self-fulfilment, but this two solutions, Pictage and WHCC, are the most commonly used ones and are sort of symbols to each solutions. So, I am not really comparing them at all. I just wanted to make you look... LOL.

But seriously, I felt the need for a non-passionated, more objective look at this two models that could help someone looking into making a choice. Hope that is helpful.

To begin with, both companies have very good product offerings. My experience with both have been very good as far as quality and customer service. For example, WHCC worked overtime during the holidays to assure they met their customer demands and my reps at Pictage always responded quickly to any questions or to solve any situation I had. Both companies have made mistakes but they have been solved in a timely and satisfactory manner. My experience is that both companies work hard to please their clients. All this to show that I don't have a axe to grind against either but have very good relationship with both.

For the last year I tested Pictage as an outsource solution model. Here is what I experience...

Pictage charges $99 a month for their services. It offers you an unlimited online backup as well as online gallery, in-house printing, order fulfillment service, albums design, and a host of proof and customer products. They also do some marketing in your behalf and they list you in the wedding channel website. Their prints and enlargement prices are quite higher than the competition but the percentage they charge for processing order is the lowest around, just 10%. All in all, expect to share with Pictage (or any of the other companies with the same model) a big chunk of your earning for the convenience of outsourcing order fulfillment.

If you hate to have to go to your lab to pickup jobs and to package them and then go to the Post Office, solutions like Pictage could be worth it. I think the online storage of full res images is something that should be consider. We take it for granted, but I had close to 300gb of images stored at their server! As a backup it could be priceless and similar online backups can be way more expensive.

Of course, if you are a very organize person, you can have local backup schemes way cheaper. With what you pay for two month you can buy an extra 500 gb HD and use it to store off-site your images. But you have to have the discipline to do it.

In the other hand, if you are a very organized DIY and you enjoy the personal touch and control over what goes to your clients, you will want to consider DIY alternatives instead.

Self-fullfilment... The first thing you want to decide if you are going to do it online or not. For wedding an online presence could be a good thing, specially if you do a lot of destination weddings, but for a portrait photog, you may want to use an on-studio approach. I have spoken with some Portrait photographers that initially got on the online band wagon to only see their sales diminish. And it is because the online is more impersonal while bringing clients back to the studio for a nice presentation can help boost sales. Things you must consider before commiting to spend for an online shopping cart.

Secondly, you got to decide if you are going to host your own cart or outsource that part of the DIY solution.

Option 1 - outsource the shopping cart:
Some use solutions like Exposure manager, Photoreflex or Instantproof. All are good, free to host but be aware of hidden "cost"... they charge between 15% to 17% commission for each sale, so is not really that "free". Hey!... they provide a service and they have to make money... Of course, if you don't sell anything, it is totally free to host, but I am assuming you want to sell something... So, if you don't want to sell much online... just an occasionally sale or don't want to host the cart or invest of the cost of the cart (some can be very pricey) This can be a viable option for you. Don't forget, you still have to fill the order... more on that later.

Once you have decided for online you have to choose an photog shopping cart. There are several options: the most popular ones are Pickpic, Skooks Cart and Photocart (I use Photocart). Others are Redcart, EZ Photosales, etc.

Option 2: self-host the shopping cart:
First, you got to decide how complex you want your cart to be. (A) You may just want a place for your client to view their images and give them the option to purchase just prints and enlargements. or, (B) you want to go beyond just showing images and sell various products, either downloadable or by mail, have a wedding registry.

If you just want (A), then I think you may find Pickpic and Skooks, both over $1,200, too pricey for that. You may want to consider EZ Photosales or Photcart for that.

If you are in (B), then you have to consider between Pickpic, Skooks or Photocart (I apologize if I leave others out). They are a more complete solution, nicely designed and allowing you great control over what you sell. I personally think that Photocart is the best value of the three.

The advantage of having and hosting your own cart is that you could reduce your overhead quite a bit. What is the cost? The one time purchase of the software, a processing charge between 1.9% to 4% (depending who does your credit card processing) and hosting cost of around $100 to $150 a year. That is it. But wait, you still have to do fulfill the order...

You have to choose a lab... It can be either your local lab, in which case you have to pick the order (assuming they have ROES), pack it and mail it. You got to factor the cost of the labor, shipping and materials involved. Or you could choose a lab that does drop ship for you, like Millers, WHCC or Mpix. This means that for an additional cost they will pack and ship for you. So, you have to factor the cost too.

You have to consider your volume of sales in which case you have to outsource whatever is more cost effective to do so. It is all about the bottom line here.


Recent experience made me consider an additional factor... There are some labs that charge you a "minimum order charge" that can eat up some of your income. Let me illustrate the problem... I recently received an order from a client - just two 5x7. No biggie. I placed the order in WHCC and chose drop ship. It probably would have been cheaper for me to mail it myself but it was Christmas. So, I have $1.10 for two 5x7 and $9.50 for 2n day drop ship, for a total of $10.60. Out of a $35.00 order (including shipping) my take was suppose to be getting $24.40. Not bad, I am not greedy... But I received my invoice today from WHCC and there was a third charge... $9.80 for "Minimum order charge". What's up with this! I said! Two 5x7 actually cost me $10.90! Ridiculous!!! So, be careful of hidden costs!

What that showed me was that sometime is better to use a local lab and do your own mailing. If I have done it myself the cost would have been: $5.00 (for priority shipping, print cost and packaging) Trip to the post office does not cost me because I have to pickup my mail anyway. So, instead of costing me $20.10 for using WHCC it could have cost me only $5.00 which meant more money on my pocket.

So, before you commit to any option, consider carefully all the costs, make sure you make an informed decision. Any of then can be beneficial to your business if it is the right one for your business model. But remember, convenience can be nice but it can have a very high cost and eat up your income. If you are a member of the PPA they have a very interesting and eye opening study on how to run a successful business. Hope this can be helpful to someone.

WHCC has a "Print Fulfillment" service which is different than their drop ship option. PF has no minimum order and a straight $5 USPS shipping charge.

It has limited print sizes selection up to 11x14 on lustre paper only with no coatings or textures.

I've heard great things about ProDPI, too, and need to send them some test prints this week.

David, did you know there are 2 different versions of ROES that you can use with WHCC? The minimum order charge does not apply with the PF version. And unless you are in an extremely time critical situation, there isn't much need for the rush delivery. Under most circumstances, the prints arrive in 2-3 days. Total cost of order in Roes PF, $5.98. (2 x .49 plus 5.00 for drop ship).

Oh, and a lot of print prices are cheaper in the PF version.


(steve, we must have been typing at the same time)

I know there has to be a mistake. I looked in their Pricing guide and nowhere it says that prints or drop ship has a "Minimum order charge".

Apparently the drop ship fee went up recently... Although I requested priority mail (it was going to a PO BOX) they shipped it UPS 2day. So, they have to re-send it correctly. I expect an adjustment.
I have contacted them today, so I let you know what they tell me, but I expect it to be a mistake and I am sure they will correct it immediately.

I use the ROES they told me to download, so I am not sure which one is it. It says in the top pro.WHCC/ROES.WHCC.

Just task them about ROES PF (print fulfillment). The minimum order fee for the regular ROES has always been $12. I think everything in ROES PF goes USPS priority. Double check with them.



here is the link...http://pro.whcc.com/go/PrintFulfillment

Maybe so, but when you are in ROES and hit 'Review Order' the total for the order is displayed in the summary at the bottom. This total includes the minimum order fee.

I use both ROES and ROES PF depending on the order and my needs.

PF also has minimal WHCC branding and no price invoice. I haven't tried their drop ship, but I would assume it contains the same order checkoff sheet and billing invoice as a studio ship.

I have a standard "Thanks for your Order" 4x6 I add to the PF order to self brand the package when opened.

:adds steve's idea to my to do list:

Ok. I see which ROES you are talking about. I was using regular roes because is the one I use to order print products and because they told me was the one to order drop ship. But when I did the checkout I don't remember seeing the minimum order charge. I will ask them about it.Thanks,Added to my "To Do" list too! Great idea.

I like the "thank you" 4x6 print idea!!! thanks

It turns out that PickPic is not too pricey for me when you consider that I gave Collages.net almost that much money in the last six months of 2007, between event fees (ranging from $9.00 to $39.00 each) PLUS their commission. Yes, PickPic has what is perceived to be a high upfront cost, but it CLEARLY is more affordable than full-service options over time.

By the way, I was self-fulfilling with Collages so print prices didn't come into play when I did the math.

Self-fulfilling is not my favorite activity, but the world is too automated already and I need to be sure that orders are correct. I would rather blame myself for an error than try to blame it on a nameless, faceless person working the assembly line at Pictage, Collages, or any other full-service lab. Ultimately, if a client's order is incorrect (self-fulfilled OR outsourced) I have to take the blame and I think my clients would be more understanding if I look them straight in the eye and say, "I'm sorry. It was my fault," rather than saying, "I'm sorry. I don't handle print orders directly. They're done by people I don't know, in a place I don't know so I have no control over it."

Obviously, I'm exaggerating, but you get my point.

I agree with you that Pickpic or Skooks or Photocart are a cost saving solution if it fits your business compared to Pictage or Collagenet. But that determination got to be done in actual numbers, your specific numbers for your business. I say this because for some, and I know some people, Pictage or Collage net saves them time and money and the DIY method would be too costly for them. And some may like the convenience of not having to deal with that and are willing to absorb the cost.


But Pickpic or Skooks (or Pictage or Collages.net) can be too pricey if you only want to share images and have an occasional sale, specially when you consider the cost of other alternatives for that specific use.

I think a mistake Pickpic have made is not to allow you to buy their software in installments. I understand their reasons (I have discussed it with them) but I think it would boost their sales if they did. I am an example of that. The only reason I considered Photocart was because of the steep price of Pickpic and I could not purchase it in installments. Now I am glad that it did make me check out Photocart because I saved a bundle and Photocart does everything I want to do and more. And as part of my website remodeling it will integrate seamless with the new look (which it can be done with Pickpic or Skooks as well).

Skooks has an installment plan but at a higher cost.

The only way either solution is going to help anyone make more money if the decision is truly well thought out based on real numbers and with the right fit for their business.

Turns out there's a 2nd option under the self-fullfill -- but it isn't for the faint hearted.

Self Print with one of the new generation of High End photo printers

YOU have to color correct 99% of the way... It's not easy to learn -- I'm still in my learning curve on getting skin tones right.

For example... I have an Epson 7800 - which is a 24 inch wide printer that uses 100 foot rolls of paper.

I still do my color correcting and editing of images using a combination of Lightroom and PhotoShop.

Instead of using ROES software to order the prints, I go a slightly different route: do a final edit on my Mac of the image to be printed.

While image is still open in PhotoShop (final tweaking and skin softening, etc), I save, then crop to the largest print size ordered from the image at 300 dpi.

Then I save that image to a special folder on my PC (yes... PC works best here) and in a sub-folder for the date: /tobePRINTED/01-10-08/

Name the file so I know what I'm printing: 2-5x7-smith057.jpg -- means make two 5x7 prints for the smith order of image #57.

then, once all images to be printed are made, go to the PC and open QImage. Surf to my TOBEPRINTED/DATE folder.

Due to the way, I've named the image files, they are all sorted by quantity and size of print. Highight all the 4x6 images, and click on "4x6"

Once the job is ready to print, hit print and walk away. Once the job is printed, take the sheets to the paper cutter, and slice and dice.

Trim, sort and package the prints for each client. Make mailing/ups labels, and done.

What you'll need:
Big Printer (probably around $2,500 US dollars)
QImage (around $90)
PC (You probably already have one)
26 inch paper cutter (around $300) - I had the 24 inch, and couldn't line up the right edge of the sheets cause the cutter head is in the way. So get a cutter 2 inches wider than the sheet you are cutting.

AFTER you get the system down, and pay attention to your color management, the prints are about 60 % the cost of what you'll get from a professional lab.

During the busy season I pay my college/high school kids to run the printer & paper cutter. In the slow season, I do it myself.

I recommend this system ONLY if you are a control freak.

Troy thanks for sharing that because I have been considering that alternative but I honestly don't know much about it. One of the things I want to do in 2008 is to check that out.

What kind of printers are you talking about... High end Epson Inkjets or some of those Kodak printers?

What I like about that option you suggest is the variety of paper choices you could have that goes beyond Kodak Lustre or metallic. Plus you could probably extend it to offering other products.

My major concern is cost per print.

Lexjet has a good range of papers, and they don't say "Epson" (or anything else) on the back of the print.

I like the printer for making silk banners for our bridal fair booths. Also their fine art cotton-fiber and textured fine art papers are good.

I've heard good things about the new Canon professional printers, and I love the Epson C3 inks that the 7800 uses.

These printers work well if you are printing alot. If you're only doing an occasional print job, it isn't worth it.

Ok. I got my answer from WHCC and like I promise here is what they said. It was no mistake. In the top right corner of the price list in a small print is says that for Thrifty Prints" There is a $12.00 minimum order (next to where it says 1-2 days service time)

As part of what I was sharing originally, it is another factor you have to consider. What is the real cost of prints. This is the exercise I made in my case:

The question that I asked myself was: What do I have to use an online lab when I can use a local lab? Price? Convenience? Products? Quality? Turn around time?

This exercise have made me realize that in my situation an online lab for prints does not make cost sense.

Prints cost about the same at my local lab,
Print quality and turn around is the same in my local lab (in my local lab I can have one hour service or same day service).
Using my local pro lab I will save money in shipping.
If I do my own shipping I save money.

And I again, I don't have a huge volume that will consume me and more than justify the cost of outsourcing.

So, why do I need to use a online lab? I have to admit that the WHCC boxes are cool, but, all in all, my local pro lab is a better deal for my business than WHCC.

Then, their drop ship is more expensive than if I do it myself. If they have to mail it to me anyway, why should it cost more to drop ship it to my client?

So, my conclusion is that while I will continue to use WHCC for other type of print needs, like print books and print cards (at least until I find something better and cheaper) but not for prints and enlargements (at least until they drop the "Minimum Order Charge" thing).


PS... This is my New Year resolution... To learn from my mistake and turn it around for my benefit instead of getting upset of bitter about it. Hopefully I can keep it up.... LOL

There is no minimum if you use print fulfillment. It was specifically set up for sending orders directly to your clients. The shipping is also less than if you drop ship, since there is no additional charge beyond the normal shipping charge when you send it to your customer. Part of why they charge a separate drop ship charge is that they have to separately send you the invoice, which cost them time and money to do. When they drop ship they do not send the invoice in the package, they send a separate one to you. This is an extra step for them and they should be compensated for it. That is why they set up print fulfillment, so that they could offer the option that you are mentioning, but you have to use this option in order to get the benefits of it. You cannot get the benefits unless you place the order through the correct method.

This is Lynn, not Adam, I didn't realize he was logged in not me.

I have no real problem with the drop ship part, but with the minimum order charge. What I do find a bit amazing is why I am hearing this from WHCC users and not from their reps? Maybe they told me once but I don't remember it. It could happen

Nevertheless, I now realize that I have no real reason for using them for print fulfillment. Maybe Iw as trying to avoid trips to the post office or maybe I thought it was cool. But, this whole thing just made me really think about my reasons for using them in the first place.

If their quality, which is excellent, were better than my local pro lab I would still use them, but all thing been equal, when I do the numbers I am better off doing print fulfillment locally.

But like I said, I will continue using them for other products for which I do have a need and cannot get locally I love their print books and their printed greeting cards. Is more a business decision on my part than something they did. They just made me really think about the reasons I was doing it. Still an excellent company.

Lynn, thanks for the help.

Hmm, I can't find anyway for the number in your example to support this. I can, using ROES PF, fulfill a (2) 5x7 order in under 3 minutes of my time for $5.98 TOTAL. No trip to the PO, no package material, no repacking. 3 minutes. If I'm slow, maybe 5.

WHCC PF ROES, not WHCC ROES.

'Nuff Said.

On my local lab I get ... 2 5x7 = $1.00.
It takes me 3 minutes or less for Roes to send it to my lab.
Next day I pick up the 5x7 (not the 2 to 3 days turn around + shipping time - 3 additional days)
My packaging is ready to go when I pick the prints - packaging cost $1.00 at local office Max.
From there go to Post office - I have to go anyway because I have to pick up my mail so is not an extra trip.
Mailing cost = $1.55 (Priority Mail).

So, what do I have? $1.00 + $1.00 + $1.25 = $3.55 and my client gets it prints in about 2 to 3 days with packaging that sells me and not WHCC.


That is lower than the $5.98 you paid and the $21.80 I ended up paying WHCC for them to print and send those same 5x7. The only thing you may be saving is a trip to the lab and Post office. For me that is not that big of an issue, like I said I have to pick up my mail anyway at the Post Office every day. But I will check the ROES PF and see what happens, but if they have the same deal with Minimum order charge, forget it.


But the more I think about it, there is a lot to say in favor of using a local lab, not only faster service, you can deal in person immediately with any issue and not have to waste time on phone calls (which I have to pay because their 800 does not work in Puerto Rico), you can really develop a personal relationship with your lab and you do QA of the product you are sending. Plus, you get total control over your packaging too. You can make it a marketing toll for you and not for WHCC.

Please, don't get me wrong,I think WHCC is a great lab with great customer service. Really nice people. And the drop ship service is very convenient. But, by the numbers, at this moment and under my particular circumstances, I may be better off using my local lab just for prints. I'll check the ROES PF anyway before I decide.

An update....

I just got an email from WHCC answering all of my question and so no one gets confuse, to be fair and I don't give the wrong impression:

WHCC ROES and WHCC PF are two different services from WHCC.

Under WHCC ROES you can order everything that they sell but there is a minimum order of $12.00 basically for everything thy sell. Drop ship cost is higher too. If you drop ship you will get a invoice by mail. Here they offer 2day UPS delivery... one of the reason the cost is higher. The Minimum order charge should not be a factor in anything you buy except on prints... So, checkout the ROES PF

Under ROES PF you can only order prints and do drop ship for a flat rate of $5.00... "can take 2-14 days or 2-3 days for delivery depending on the shipping method you choose for delivery." Print prices are a bit lower too. And there is no minimum order. No rush orders available neither. The packaging has only a small WHCC logo that is cover with the mailing tape and the returning address is the photog and not WHCC. You don't get studio invoice neither. They use USPS. So this is the solution I would use instead, specially if I want to save time going to the Post Office and not have to deal with any packaging whatsoever. This I can dig

Thanks to all that pointed me on the right direction... Life is Good... OSP is good!

Hope this helps...

Just wanted to point out: if doing self fulfillment from your local lab as described above, you should really factor in gas and wear on your car for your trip to/from the lab and post office.

Also, if you're printing in studio, the price of ink, paper, and packaging (esp custom packaging) has to be included, as well as a percentage of the cost of the printer mulitplied by any repairs and how often you need to get a new one. Frankly unless you are doing super high volume I just cant see this being economically worth it, and if you are you are either spending LOTS of time doing it or you're hiring someone to do it for you.

I think for specialty prints and products, where you can charge a very high margin (like printing your own canvas or signature fine art prints at $100+ each), could be one of the few ways that it would make sense.

Interesting breaking news for all you PickPic users... there's now word on the street that WHCC has acquired both PickPic (the product) along with Lickety Pixel (the company)... so it will be interesting to see how the final landscape looks when all the dust settles.

But I think the drift hear is that "DIY fulfillment" doesn't necessarily equate to photographers driving around to local labs to pick up prints and such. That's definitely not our approach, anyway.

Although we use PickPic back-ended by Millers Professional Imaging now for much of our print and press product fulfillment, it will be interesting to see how PickPic evolves under WHCC ownership. The initial press release alludes to PickPic's continued "lab independence", but only time will tell.

What I really like about announcements like this one is that PickPic, formerly known purely for its DIY approach to online proofing, may now have some very nice features -- and additional financial resource backing -- coming down the line to improve the "back-end" processing part of the order fulfillment workload WITHOUT all the marketing nonsense that Pictage brings to the party.

So for photographers looking for one of the best online proofing solutions backed by one of the leading professional labs out there doing what they do best, this announcement should be welcome news for PickPic's future. (Sure, I selfishly wish Millers would have been the lab buying PickPic, but let's see what happens here).

David

Press release here

clever idea!

Congratulation to Troy and best of luck on this new phase of their lives.

I am sure they must be excited about the move and about where this is going to take them.

Hard work and commitment to excellence gets rewarded as this good news demonstrates it.

Now, I read the press release and couple of thinks picked my curiosity... Here they are...



Troy, if you can tell (if you cannot I do understand), any suggestion as where is the "new direction" -as you mention in the press release- where this merge will take both companies?

Can we expect a possible alternative to Pictage and Collage.net coming out of the merge as a side project? To me that would be a logical and positive next step for WHCC.

Would this mean a possible drop in price of Pickpic?

Regardless, Congrat and count with our prayers and best wishes!!