I'm trying to avoid hijacking some of the other anti-Pictage threads. It sounds like many, many people are disatisfied with them. So I feel compelled to report that it is not all bad. Although, I certainly don't mean to discount the experience of others....I just want share a different view. I joined Pictage mid season in 2005. I uploaded my first event...sold some photos...and promptly received a quality complaint from the bride. I fired them. I thought it was a great concept, but I could not tolerate bad quality. I went on to photoreflect and self full-fill(a lot of work) untill the final wedding of 2006. My reprint sales were dismal....and I still got the occasional quality or shipping complaint. Early in 2007, I was invited to a organizational PUG meeting in Asheville. That PUG is made up of some wonderful people/photographers ...and in short order they convinced me to give Pictage another try. So...all my 2007 events are on Pictage...and I am quite happy with the improvements I've seen from 2005. My reprint sales have skyrocketed....my next check will be nearly $3000. I have had zero quality or shipping complaints so far this year. I had one bookeeping error which was quickly fixed. When I can I take advantages of PUG meetings....and my new web site(not up yet) is the result of a discount arangement between Big Folio and Pictage. Of course, they are not perfect, and I have had moments of frustration....as I do with most vendors. I am a one man show, and so far....they have proven to be an incredible resource.

I just moved to pictage from photoreflect and im loving it alot so far... I need to get my print prices higher, but I have had lots of orders so far with pictage!

Brady...cool avatar! Hey, I am glad you posted this because I am considering giving Pictage a try. For those that primarily do portrait and commercial work and just now breaking into weddings, would it be good to work with them? Or are they primarily geared toward wedding photogs? By the way, you mentioned Asheville. A fellow OSP'r mentioned this to me earlier and I would love it if I could join in on a meeting to see if this is something I would like to do. Are you talking Asheville, NC?
I am happy to hear you are having a good experience.

Thanks for posting that Brady. Your story is a little like mine except I haven't returned. I would consider it in the future (gasp ) however, I would like to see a good and consistent track record in place first. The new interface is a good start. They seem to be softening a little on prices. I like that they are always looking for new things to offer. Although Jillian has a great point that it would nice be to see them hit home runs on the current setup before stretching themselves too thin with new ones. And with as much attention as the accounting problems have received, I can't help but assume they have/are getting it ironed out. Yes?

I know my expectations are high, but anyone I pay $1200 a year too (+commission) has to keep their nose clean. And anyone I place between me and my clients has to keep their nose extra booger (can I say that here?) free!! It's a great concept that can work. I'll keep on watching.

I think people have unrealistic expectations about Pictage. When you consider the cost of self-fulfillment, including the cost of your time and maybe hiring a staffer... Pictage's costs become a value. ESPECIALLY considering the free album design service.

A real problem I've had is not following through with the many opportunities Pictage offers to learn more about making print sales more successful.

I never really went through the setup process the correct way. I never participated in the forums. I never attended PUG meetings. I can't jump on the bash Pictage bandwagon because I haven't been diligent in learning how to best use the service.

I'm going to change that this year.

I dont think we would be in business without Pictage. We have had very very few issues over the 9 months we have been using them.

Amen to all that.

From monitoring this forum I have concluded that those who have left Pictage have done for two main reasons: (1) They experience problems and (2) it is too expensive a solution for the way they operate their business. I think most of both camps will tell you that they still like what Pictage has to offer but think is too costly for them.

My business model is not geared toward online sales and for that reason I was very apprehensive when I joined Pictage. The truth is that I don't make much print sales (it will change in 2008). But I decided to give it a try... a real try. And I did. My Pictage experience taught me a lot, about my business, about online sales and about me.

My experience has been better than average-good. No major problems, no print quality issues, good customer service. I also made unexpected sales thanks to the products the sales and for which I don't have to I do anything. It is nice not have to fulfill orders but have someone do it for you and just see income checks rolling in.

Certainly the 10% commission is one of the lowest among competitors but the $99 is above the competitors. Outsourcing is not free, it has a cost. When you self-fulfill and hire an employee to do that you are "outsourcing" too. The different is that you may retain higher control. Would an employee cost you $1,200 a year to do what Pictage does for you? or more?

Also, does being a Pictage's photographer... does that in itself be a benefit? Does that fact in itself bring you increase sales and more business?

See, all that is a business decision that each of us has to make based on their own business need and realities.

My experience is that for those with low volume sales and plenty of time in their hand Pictage can be an expensive solution that will end up eating up the income from your sales. Solutions like Instantproof can be of some benefit here, but can do the same... eat up your sales because of the fee. I think for this kind of business self-fulfillment may be the best alternative until outsourcing is a need.

For those who do a lot of online sales, and I mean a lot, are really busy to deal with online order fulfillment themselves and having a employee do it is too expensive, or are looking for other benefits, like free album design, etc, solutions like Pictage may be the ticket. A cost analysis is in order here.

Destination photographers may or may not benefit from Pictage... all depends of their online sales volume. (I think this is one of the keys here... online sales volume)

Most portrait photographers have clients come to their studios and while their sales are high their online sales may be low. Some wedding photographers may operate the same way too. So the benefit of an online solution like Pictage is more a matter of convenience and not necessity. A cost analysis is a must if you want to keep the bottom line low.

Because out sourcing has a cost, you have to outsource out of necessity or convenience and not because it is in vogue or because it is the way some celebrity photographer operates. It can cost you money trying to be like someone else.

You have to ask yourself why am I using an online gallery for? For online sales primarily? Just to show the clients their images but not for sales? combinations of both? Can I fulfill myself or I have to outsource that too? An extra employee or a total outsource? You got to determine your reasons and make your decisions based on a cost analysis. You want to keep as much money in your pocket as you can.

A friend always tells me that "your business will speaks to you when it needs something" How true!!!

My online gallery-shopping cart is a benefit for my clients. Is more a convenience than a necessity. Most of my sales are done at my studio. I have it so my client can share their images with distant friends and for my destination wedding clients. It helps those distant clients choose images for their albums. I also have it for the occasional sales. Because each business is different you have to do a cost analysis to keep your bottom line down.

If you want people to only see their images and have an easy way to choose images for their album and share them, there are cheaper solutions than a shopping cart gallery.


My conclusion after 9 month is that while Pictage is very nice and have a lot to offer to certain photographers is not the best solution at this moment for my business if I want to keep my bottom line down and keep unnecessary cost out. After doing a cost-analysis I have decided that a solution like Photocart are the way to go for now. This will help me offer the online gallery convenience to my clients, offer products to them and deal with the occasional online sale in a cost-effective way and, most importantly, it will help me keep operational cost down. ... This is my best, until my business speak to me again and differently...

Hope this experience help those who are trying to decide.

Merry Christmas!

Hi Lisa!

I wanted to respond to a couple of your thoughts... Nathan and I started off as primarily wedding photographers... and Pictage is definitely the perfect solution for that. High volume traffic to each event, never having to fill that one random 4x6 order, album designer, ect... it was perfect.
As I moved into the Lifestyle Baby realm, I wondered if Pictage would continue to be such an awesome fit. Most of the photographers in my market swore by projection for sales... and i didn't see that fitting in with my hands off online approach. So I decided that for me, projection and studio sales wasn't going to work. I was going to make Pictage work for me as a portrait biz.
And it has worked brilliantly. If you have any specific questions about how to make it work, shoot me a PM or an email, I'd love to help out in any way I can.

As for the Asheville PUG, you should TOTALLY go check it out. We are the PUG leaders here in Chattanooga, but I'll have to say that I adore the Asheville PUG. They are an AWESOME group of photographers... go, learn from them!

Brady,

Thanks for this post.
I love Pictage, too.
And no, they don't pay me to say that.

I had the same question when I joined Pictage in Feb. 2006. I had never even considered doing weddings at that point and I really wasn't sure it was going to work out for me. My print sales skyrocketed from my portrait sessions. I really took time to figure out Pictage and followed most, if not all, of Pictage's "best practices" when I started. I was really only trying Pictage and wasn't sure it was going to work for me. So I made sure to keep good records and analyze what happened before I decided to continue.

I compared a group of clients who had been my clients for at least 2 years who had as session with me in 2005 (pre-pictage) and a session posted on Pictage in 2006 and compared their print sales from 2005 (pre-Pictage) to 2006 (with Pictage). My PROFIT from print sales was 5x greater in 2006 (with Pictage) than the year before. I was really shocked. By way of disclosure, in calculating my profit, I deducted the full amount of the monthly fee (then $150/month) for the months that these events were posted and not the whole year, but at the same time, I had a lot of clients who weren't in the comparison so I tried to make it more of a pro-rata than the full cost of Pictage for 1 year. In addition to the increased print sales, I had more time to do more shoots and scheduled an increased number of sessions that year as compared to previous years. And I no longer cringed when I got orders.

2007 has been even more amazing. I know it doesn't work for everyone, but it really does work for me.

I'm been a Pictage user since 2004. My first wedding, and my most recent, and all in between, have all been with Pictage. I can't recall ever hearing a complaint from any client about the quality of their products, and in fact, hear praises all the time. Along the way, if I had an issue, the most common cause of the problem was on my end, or perhaps at the time my not fully taking advantage of the service in some way.

Anyway, the massive amount of time it saves me, as well as the ease of opening a check mailed to me (my most recent one was well over $3000), and the convenience it provides my client all make it well worth the investment.

And there are other benefits as well, like unique proofing products, annual conferences, the forum, and more.

In the end, for the time, money, and community involvement you can get with Pictage... what's a better alternative? I don't see one, nor am I looking.

Thanks Brady!

Corey

Hi Lisa,

I'm in Asheville and I can say we'd love to have you come to a PUG. I've only missed one of them from its inception. Regina Holder is in charge of ours. Give her a call. In fact, I might be out of place here, but you should come up tomorrow for the PUG Holiday party! It'd be a great way to start off!

Hope to see you,

Corey

Pictage's business model...and market strategy...in my opinion...is brilliant. It's the execution, unfortunately, that is pervasively flawed. (I hear too many stories that echo my own experience with Pictage...and that's really a shame because it's a company that has done a lot for our industry and many of the key players here on OSP.)

As a life-long student of commerce...I'm constantly wishing I could roll-up my sleaves and join the revolution to help fix Pictage's flaws. However, my inner conflict is that I tend to gravitate toward the Davids of the world rather than the Goliaths (and I'm grateful that my clients tend to do the same -- it makes for a good fit). It's like...would I rather help Bella grow to market dominance...or would I rather contribute to sustainable market parity and help the "indies" of the world?

Maybe, just maybe, it could be that some of us are just hard to please. I have my own theory there...but I've contributed too much to the delinquency of this thread already. My apologeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees...

Amber, thank you very much and yes, I would love to be able to ask you some questions. Heck, I would just like to be able to get to know a PUG group to bounce ideas and thoughts and such. Plus, Asheville is beautiful I am the same as far as projection. I know there are so many that it works brilliantly for..but I just think I would not like to do it that way.
Thanks everyone for the timeline experience you have had so far and I am happy to hear it is working well for you guys.
Corey, I cannot wait to come to a meeting. Do you know when the party is? Do I have to be officially invited?

Lisa, I'm officially inviting you...

FRIDAY, DECEMBER 7, 2007
6:30PM
72 Baldwin Rd.
Arden, North Carolina 28704

Hope to see you there!

Corey

Brady!

Thank you for the thread and all the nice things about the PUG! We love having you as part of our group, even though you are an old man.

I will write a more detailed response later today. Pictage has been the main reason that my business has been so successful in the last 16 months. It was at a Pictage mini-conference in Atlanta that I joined the community that is Pictage. Sara France led the first Atlanta PUG and I met Liana. Then, David Jay and Denis Reggie totally changed how I ran my business. So many of the photographers that inspire me are now great friends and I love that once a month I get to hang out with all the Pictage photogs in Asheville and the surrounding area. I SO do not miss fulfilling orders. As Jessica said, I used to actually dread reprint orders. Now, I get an email that my clients have ordered Christmas cards and other prints and I cheer!

Brady - you are coming tonight, right???? You better!!!!

Ha....I move good for an old man. I will see if I can get a pass to be out past curfew. Sure sounds like a fun...

Lisa, you really should go tonight if you can. I can't go because I have a wedding and I'm really sick on top of that. So trying to go to the party after the wedding just isn't going to be in the cards for me today. Our PUG has a lot of great people, you really need to go meet them.

I agree that the social networking aspect of Pictage is awesome. I have met so many great people though there.

I just have to agree with all of this.

I fought pictage for years.... swore I would never use them.

I was an idiot.

They make my life sooo much easier. One, i have some time back. Two, print sales don't suffer.

yes there are pluses and minuses, but hands down, it's the best solution for my business.

The amount I save on credit card processing (not to mention the hassle and responsibility of keeping up with people's cc numbers) is at least three times the monthly cost of pictage, EVERY SINGLE MONTH.

Its an awesome solution and I cringe when I see so many bad stories about them, because that has never been the case for me. ANYTHING that I've ever questioned with prints and billing, they simply take care of it at no charge.

Pictage has made me some serious serious money... you cannot argue with that.

I LOVE PICTAGE also! Thanks for starting this post! It has REALLY helped my business, and made me feel not so alone as a one-woman photography office! I had seen all the anti-Pictage posts & was just heading to the Pictage forum more than OSP since there was so much negative energy about it.....

I agree with you Kay and Roo,

I think people got to understand that Pictage is just a tool. It may work or not for your business, but why demonize it just because it didn't work for you or had a bad experience once.

Glad to hear that it is an effective tool for your business.

I wouldn't call people relating their experiences as demonizing it. Also, most people that have posted their experiences with Pictage have not had one bad experience with Pictage, they have had numerous bad experiences over a long period of time. I am glad Pictage works for some, but it is really obnoxious the way you misquote and minimize the experiences of those of us that are not Pictage fans.

Hi Lynn,

I'm not sure that David's statement was directed at anyone on this thread. Instead... I remember several threads, on OSP and on other forums that really have a negative bent toward Pictage.

My guess is that David was generalizing with his "demonizing" statement -- not pointing fingers.

Actually, David has gotten onto every one of those threads and made similar comments or just flat out said people were lying. That is actually why I responded to him. I am sick and tired of him saying that anyone who had a lousy experience with Pictage is lying/not given Pictage a chance/out of the ordinary/unfair/etc. That is actually why I commented on what he said.

Ahhhhh. the OSP soap operas.

that's why I tune in.

I'll be leaving Pictage soon. But, it's because of the reason David stated: As a tool, it's too expensive for my business model -- which doesn't focus on print sales. I've seen my print sales slide to a point that I'm not recouping the base Pictage cost every month.

I'm new to the OSP forum and apparently the OSP "soap operas"

but I have been with Pictage for one year, after doing prints locally for years, the a handful of other online print fulfillment companies....

and now for my $99 per month, I'm getting about $999 in print returns that I would NOT have had before Pictage.....

I'll stick with Pictage......and the soap operas....

Lynn, I don't call people relating their experiences as demonizing Pictage, but you cannot deny that there are some here that every time someone relate a bad experience they jump in to remind everyone how the big bad wold "Pictage" is out there to rip people off and those who use it are idiots. It may not be you, but they are out there and every Pictage user at OSP can testify of them and have suffer they insinuations.

Lynn, you tell your story... it is your story... we give you the benefit of the doubt... I have no reason to think you, or anyone else is lying... specially because I wasn't part of your experience... there are always two side to every story and we haven't heard Pictage side, haven't we? So, why should I give your story more credibility than what Pictage story is? I take you at your word but as I give you the benefit of the doubt I will give Pictage the same benefit. That is called been fair.

The only time I have questioned the veracity of an experience or statement was when it was such an exaggeration and unfair statement against Pictage that offended fair play. To that, I could not keep quite. Sorry if you felt implicated but wasn;t my intention.

And honestly, what amazes me is that people that said they have such a bad experience with Pictage devote so much of their time here at a Pictage forum.

I will never understand that.

I am doing the same as Troy. I am leaving Pictage because for my business at this time is not the best tool. It has help me some but the economy in Puerto Rico is not doing too good so I need to lower my bottom line.

For others it has been a God send. They may encounter problems, but in general it has become an effective tool as many has testified here.

Yet others had such a bad experience that they don't want to know about Pictage. That is just fine. If I were in their shoes I'll probably would do the same. I don't blame them. But I would get on with my life in more productive things than coming here and jumping in to say "see, I told you Pictage was bad!"

Amber, you rock!

I Love Pictage!! It works great for my business model and I've had great print sales. I also love the community.

I realize its not for everyone, but I LOVE PICTAGE!!!!

Amber you DO rock...so GLAD to have met you last night:)

Does this mean you went to the party? Yea! I'm so sad I missed it. I ended up going to dinner with the wedding party from the wedding I shot yesterday.

I agree that Pictage is a tool that works for some people and not for others. In any choice we make for print orders their is going to be pro's and con's. Overall, Pictage has made our life SO much easier!! We've never had to fulfill a print order - and the couple times that we had to do a last minute print we were grumbling all the way!! Pictage allows us to BUILD our business instead of spending all our time RUNNING our business. If you look at in investing terms our most valuable asset is our time. If we continually spend our time doing tasks that will only yield a certain dollar amount no matter what - we aren't moving forward. But if we invest our time doing little things to grow our business overall then we will be able to make way bigger strides. If you look at any successful business owner their was a time that they had to delegate out responsibilities so that they could concentrate on utilizing their true talents. Our true talent isn't taking a completing print orders - our talent is in photography and business.
I agree that their could be improvement made to Pictage and I hope those improvements will happen soon. But overall, I don' t think that Michael and I could have grown our business nearly as quickly if we were bogged down with print orders. So that's the story of why we've stuck with Pictage!

I am glad to hear so many endorsement for Pictage from non-celebrity photographers. It shows that while some people may have had problems and some find it (like myself) that it may not be the best solution for their business model, Pictage is a very useful and worthwhile tools for those who have need of such a tool.

And what I have discovered through my own experience and what has been posted here is that (1) bad experiences are few and good experiences are many and out number the bad ones; (2) that Pictage seems to be working hard to improve the user satisfaction; (3) that they listen and (4) and that they are improving usability of their site.

That is great to know.

And I am a very satisfied ex-Pictage user. I have and will continue to promote Pictage as a very good solution for those who need it, even though I may not use it myself.