So, I get an email on Friday of last week saying my Proof magazine has shipped.... Great, 2 day turnaround as usual...

It's Wednesday and nothing yet, so I thought I'd call Pictage for a tracking number only to find out the proof magazine hasn't even shipped yet!!

I totally understand the holiday rush, but why send me an email saying 5 days ago "Your order has shipped" (Quoted from the email) if it hasn't??

I just feel like for monthly fee and huge commisions they get off my prints that I should have better service. The customer service rep. never apologized, offered any other options etc... (AND, it's not like this is the first problem I've had)

Perhaps they are referring to 2 business days?

Anyhoo...

If Pictage (or any vendor, for that matter) isn't delivering on their promise(se) don't be afraid to ask for a credit on your monthly fee. Tell them sincerely that you are considering other vendor partners but, first, you'd like them to have a chance to make good. Ask them what they are willing to do to keep your business.

Yes, that is 2 business days. I placed the order 2 business days before I received the shipment notification. After looking at the Pictage holiday turnaround I noticed that it was longer, but the whole point was I received an email saying the magazine had shipped when it hadn't.

I just made the call. To cancel.

Yeah, good luck with that too.... took me a LONG time and a lot of frustration just to cancel.

Things can happen... and it is upsetting when it happen to us!

I order some business cards and postcards from Printrunner... excellent company, by the way... on Nov. 19 I received some emails from the USPS saying that the shipper... Printrunner... had notified the USPS of the shipment... it even had a tracking number!

Today I received a call from Printrunner asking me how I wanted shipped. The rep and I scratched our head trying to figure out why I had received those emails when the shipment was in their warehouse awaiting shipping instructions.

Same thing happened with a WHCC shipment recently. It showed it was sent on a date, and it took over two weeks to get to me. WHCC swear that it was sent on a date but the shipping label showed that it was sent at a much later date.

There is no doubt in my mind that those companies (and Pictage) are awesome in their customer services. My experience have been great with all three, even when mistakes are done.

It should not, but weird things can happen to everyone. We cannot forget that we are dealing with human beings prone to mistakes and mood changes. I cannot imagine having to deal with so many clients. I try to remind myself that because I tend not to be too nice when is done to me.

Hope it get solve to your satisfaction.

I understand they have a lot of people to deal with, and that is why I am always super nice and understanding when it comes to things like this. However, the nonchalant i-don't-care attitude I usually get from customer service gets very frustrating...

Hi Nick,

I am sorry that you had a problem with this order, and especially that you felt that our CE rep didn't care.

Can you please email me the order #? I will check into it and let you know what happened. The weird thing about this is that the shipping confirmation email is automated when the order actually ships, so if you got a confirmation email and the order didn't ship something is wrong.

Email me the details at mcaro@pictage.com and I'll get back to you.

Sorry again.

Michael Caro
Senior Manager
Pro Consulting Group
Pictage, Inc.

i'm kinda mad at pictage today. i know it's just one incident....but sheesh. it shouldn't take an act of god to get something fixed.

here's the story (cause i need to vent):

*********
client accidentally sends out link to event...the link used to log in to her account. (it includes an authentication token, so it doesn't require additional log in....all she meant to do was copy the text which would have been great, but unless you're a computer whiz, it's not obvious that it copies the underlying link too. i love it when computers "help" me....ugh.)

all her guests are logging in to her account...one placed an order, others are emailing photos...no one can figure out why it all is happening with her email address, or who is putting all that extra stuff in the shopping cart!

soooooooo.....i solve the "mystery" after looking at the email she sent out in plain text (not html). the html had been hiding the link with the authentication code, and it looked okay to the naked eye.

i call pictage tech support, cause it's late in the afternoon and i've misplaced my rep's info.

*************
tech support #1: tells me to have the client change the password. i already have, and it didn't change anything. he doesn't think there's anything i can do about it, but he'll put in a trouble ticket. i was about to ask how long that takes when my phone lost signal. (not pictage's fault, i know)

**************
tech support #2: i call back, cause i'm not happy yet. 2nd tech guy can't find any notes the first guy left, so i reiterate the story. again, he doesn't think there's anything we can do, unless we change the client's email, expire the event, and re-release it. i tried to explain why that wouldn't work, but he didn't understand. i agreed to try.

he then told me that what the bride SHOULD have done is enter in all the guests' email addresses into pictage. i told him no way, sending out the link makes more sense. (there was no way i was going to encourage my bride to enter all her friends' and families' email addresses for instant spam from pictage. headache!) i provide cards for the friends and family, but they aren't forced to use them either.
*************
i called the client (who is a florist, preparing for the biggest wedding of her season, and is really too busy to talk, poor thing) and beg for an alternate email.

i try the new email thing, but all that does is (as i tried to explain to the guy on the phone) take off the "owner" association with the link. people are still using the link to log into the old account, so they are all still trying to use the same shopping cart.
***********
tech support #3: i called back, still no notes on my account, so i explained the situation a third time. and tried to explain that the only good way to break this link is to remove the authentication token from the cache, which is probably stored long term in the database. no one thinks this is possible, but he'll put in a trouble ticket to tech support. we hang up.

i think about it, and realize that the link is in the format:
http://pictage/event=[event number]&authenticationToken=[authToken]

soooooo....i can ALSO break the link by changing the event number. i called back

tech support guy #3 (again): i got really lucky, and got the same tech support guy twice. he agrees, that changing the event number is the best way to handle it. it's just before 5pm, so he says he's going to put in a ticket for the images to be transferred to a new event quickly...if it's not done that night, it will be done early in the morning. i agree. i ask about the one order that has already been placed, and he says it will be fine, because the old event will still be online.

i tell the bride it will be done by mid-morning. in the mean-time, we expire the old event.

that night, no changes. next morning, no changes. it's a busy day between work and a doctors appointment, so i couldn't call. finally after noon i email tech support guy #3, but he never responds. i didn't leave work till nearly 9pm. still no changes.

my bride emails me to ask why it isn't done. i feel sooo bad. her guests are complaining to her. i tell her that if it's not fixed by 11am the next day, i'll put them up on a service other than Pictage. (i don't actually have time to do this, but i would if i had to)

i email pictage at 7:45 am the next morning (today). evidently they transferred the images, but just didn't bother to release them to me. so they release them.

i go to check the event. the images are no longer categorized. UGH. i go to categorize them...they are now OUT OF SEQUENCE. entirely. about every 10th photo is entirely out of place. so i can't just check the first and last of a sequence to categorize it, i have to look at each one (this event had 1000) and try to find the out of place ones. even within a category, they are not in sequence.

i spend 1.5 hrs categorizing them. i still have no idea how to fix the sequencing, and the numbers on the photos now do not match with the disc i have sent the client.

in the process, i go to check the original even to see if i wrote the category names the same. it has been ERASED. gone. crap, there was an order on that event!

i frantically search my office for where i wrote down my rep's phone number. (my original rep left the company, and got a new one by phone the last time i had an issue..her name and number was written down....somewhere...i wish they had this information in your account.)

finally i found it. i call her and leave a message.

in the email from tech support guy #3, was a link for a "survey". i thought i'd fill that out. link didn't work. no joke. survey link didn't work. i can't even complain.

rep called back, and saved me from pulling out my hair. i explained the situation, and she agreed it was a mess, and promised to take care of the print order that had been screwed up in the process. i told her to give that customer a gift certificate (for more than the original order), but i don't know if that was done or not....

then i wrote an email for the bride to send out to friends and family (cause she's too busy to write a new email with explanation). i put my phone number in there, so that all problems are handled by me directly from now on, and not the bride, who is already swamped.
*************


i realize that the original problem was not necessarily pictage's fault. i'm not sure whose fault it is, so i'll blame it on myself for not making it easier for clients to send out a link to guests. i'll fix that with my next event.

i realize that they can only do so much to fix the problem. and i realize that as a software engineer, i should not be that surprised that i found the solution faster, or understood the problem better.

but at every step of the way (up until calling my rep), i had to fight with pictage. i had to beg and make my own solutions. they didn't have "can do" attitude. i guess that's really my issue...none of the customer service people really seemed to care. "well, i guess we'll write a ticket and see what happens"....that was the attitude. i don't know if it's because they don't care, or because they aren't empowered to actually fix a situation. but no one seemed to really want to make the situation better except me. or at least no one bought into the immediacy of it.

my reputation was on the line, and i felt helpless.

sheesh.

anyway, so that novel is just about one issue. and once i spoke to my rep, things *were* better. (mostly because i'd already made them better). unfortunately, i work full time so i can't always call my rep during normal hours. i need to trust the whole company, not just one lady.


so i really need to find a company that cares more about my success, and considers my clients to be their clients. i don't mind the money, and understand an issue here or there...but i need to know that i'm not actually going to have to do the brunt of the work when a problem comes up, it's just not acceptable.

anyway, sorry for the thread-jack. i'm in a bad mood, so perhaps it wasn't a good idea to share all of this, but oh well. i think companies and people are defined not by their mistakes, but by their reactions to their mistakes.

Um, it's supposed to make our workflow easier. I'll bet we ALL have a horror story about them somewhere.


But then there are other companies, companies I've used for YEARS and never had a problem.

E

this was my third time to need their help, and be disappointed. the first time was their fault, and it took 3 calls to get it fixed. the second was when they switched interfaces, and i still have no idea whether it was pictage's fault or the client doing something funky....but i was still suggesting solutions long after the pictage tech guy said he couldn't think of anything to do. the client finally called themselves and demanded to be switched to the old interface (which i had been told that he wasn't sure they could do).

and then there's the one customer order on my account that got sent back, and i still have no idea why. i didn't find it until a couple months later, so i never got around to calling anyone. but if it was a bad print or something, i think i ought to have been in the loop. i don't want to have to solve the problem, but it would be nice to be informed...especially as i was charged for something (might have just been charging back profit i'd made from it in the previous billing cycle...but i have NO idea.) i still ought to call and find out what that was about....

anyway....yeah. this issue was the straw (or brick) that broke the camel's back. again, i'm threadjacking, sorry Nick. I just wanted to say that i know what you're feeling.

if i stick to pictage, i'll try to involve my rep more often, so at least she can be the person to do the back-n-forth with the unmotivated customer support guys. she does seem to care more.

You know what feels good about repeatedly hitting your thumb with a hammer?

When you stop.

Jill and Nick, I can truly understand your frustration.

It seems that for some companies "Customer Service" has become a way to shelter the company from the customer. Is like they keep you from those who can really help you. For other customer service are useless because they don't know a thing about the product, they just fill "service tickets".

I have used Pictage Customer service for couple of minor of problems but the ones that really solves problems are the Pro rep.

Unfortunately for Pictage, if they are going to provide the service to our clients they almost have to be flawless. Mistakes do have a grave impact in our businesses.

No one will take better care of your business and customers than yourself. If you can do self fulfillment I would seriously suggest to consider Photocart. Same features of Pickpic or Skooks but for 1k less.

Good luck.

i agree david! i think pictage has the potential to be amazing....but instead of fixing quality and customer service issues they just keep jamming on new services and products, which imho makes things worse.

i heard all these things, and decided to give them a year because i really do need full service fulfillment. i think a year is long enough (right on the money, Eric, no more hammer). I *hope* i've found a company that can replace them, but i can't make the switch until i've done a little testing. don't want to go from bad to worse. at least now the problems are occasional.

I think the only one that has the same kind of level of services and products is Collages.net. THey sure have been putting out the ads on the magazines lately.

Good luck to you.

David

I'm so mad at Pictage I can't hardly stand it! I left messages today with 2 different people with Pictage about closing my account and never got a return phone call. I need to figure out an exit strategy. I have done almost 13k in business this year with Pictage, so there's a lot of loose strings to tie off before I can just leave.

It makes me even more angry when I leave messages, phone calls are not returned, then see them post on OSP. That just ain't right!

They have a forum specifically for posting questions like that.

Good luck on getting things shut down with them. It took us almost two years and numerous phone calls to finally get them to close our account completely. Every time we thought they had finally done it, another event would be re-released randomly by them, then we would contact them about it, they would swear we still had an active account and that we had never closed it.

i read about nothing but headaches from this place - why do you guys even still mess around wit them?

I expect for it to take a couple of months. I just have too many events released there. If it went on for more than 6 months, then a year, at that point my attorney would be taking over and I wouldn't be worried about it.

A suggestion... Delete all your events before you shut down. I assume it can be difficult to re-release no-existent event once they are deleted.

I will be switching to Photocart this month (out of necessity and not because anything bad with Pictage. My experience with them have been above par) So I will share my experience shutting down my events and canceling Pictage.

Again, I am leaving in very good terms with them and maybe in a future I may have a need for Pictage, but right now is not the right solution for my business. For details on the why of my decision read here..

We left on good terms with them. While we were with them, we had enough problems that we decided to leave, but we left the door open to come back in the future once they worked out their issues. The straw that broke the camel's back for us was actually the leaving process. It took us 6 months to get the money they owed us. Then it took months and months after that to get them to actually close our account. When we left, we had a couple of events that were still active on there, so we didn't want to erase anything until they had finished being active. Also, that really shouldn't be necessary. I have heard of other people having similar problems with them, even recently. It wasn't until we had such a horrible time closing our account that we decided we would never go back to them.

Hi Jason,

We did receive your request to cancel your account and your account has been moved to a cancel pending status, so you won't be charged any more monthly fees. Your Pro Consultant, Adam Linke, will follow up with you to finalize this for you. He is on vacation this week but you will hear from him early next week, I can assure you of that.

I'm sorry that no one let you know this information.

Michael Caro
Senior Manager
Pro Consulting Group
Pictage, Inc.

That's great to hear Michael but why are we communicating on OSP about this? Why hasn't anyone returned my calls? I'm not gonna yell, I promise I'm a nice guy.

Hi Jillian,

I'm sorry for the problems you have had. The one you describe with your customer sending her link to her guests is a complicated one, which I'm sure is why it took a while to be settled, though it doesn't sound like we did a great job of helping figure out what to do. I'd be glad to discuss this and anything else with you, just email me a mcaro@pictage.com with a phone # and some times I might be able to reach you and I'll give you a call.

Michael Caro
Senior Manager
Pro Consulting Group
Pictage, Inc.

I am considering Pictage, but honestly I am not impressed that I would need to go to OSP to get my problems solved. Does that seem strange to anyone else?

Just for the record Michael never called me. My rep ended up calling me the following Tuesday. I brought this post up to my rep, and he talked to Michael about it. He stated that there was a misunderstanding, and that he didn't know I was expecting a phone call from him, I had called him and left a message for him to please call me back that day. How can that be misundertood?

I am done with Pictage. This was kinda the straw that broke the camels back. It's all just too much junk to have to deal with. I thought about emaling the CEO of Pictage with a link to this post, but I don't really think they care. Even since my last post on this topic, Pictage continued to let me down with their incompetence, lack of follow though, and outright lies.

If someone wants to know more details about what my problems were, please contact me via PM, email or call me. It's not adventageous for me to bad-mouth Pictage on this board any longer because of the power Pictage now has in our industry. Many people I love and respect either work for Pictage, speak with and for Pictage, and are very loyal to Pictage. So it really doesn't get me anything but flak, even if it's true.

Actually, Pictage has their own forum, specifically for users. It's mostly a "Pat-each-other-on-the-back", but does have some good info sharing.

One area is called "Monitored" and means just that. Pictage staff monitors that area, and promptly responds during their biz hours. If you cannot get hold of your account rep, then that's a good place to post.

We're lucky to Michael Caro on OSP occasionally. But the Pictage users forum is really the place to post Pictage topics that need their attention.

If you're a Pictage user, get over there, and request a login for the forum (takes about a day to get set up).

Troy, I think he was referring to the fact that Pictage chose to speak with me through this post instead of picking up the phone and calling me. Pictage does have a monitored part of their forum, and they are normally very quick to respond there. That wasn't the issue though.

Sorry... just trying to get folks who aren't on pictage to understand that there is a location there to post issues.

Wasn't aware if the issue had been posted on the Pictage forum or not.

If I went over there and posted that no one would ever call me back and I was leaving, the post would be deleted. Pictage has a policy of deleting posts if the content has anything to do with leaving. Now they don't delete complaints, but they do delete people saying they are leaving.

That's interesting. Makes sense -- don't want the "I'm leaving" negatives floating around on the web. But still sad.

Honestly I don't blame them for deleting them. If someone posted negative comments on any of our blogs, I bet most of us would delete them. Wouldn't be good for business. Like I said, you can go on there and see complaints all day long, but not I'm leaving.

Me too!! Just a few weeks ago I finally ended my relationship with them. Never was profitable for me, and there was no real incentive to keep paying them.

Now I'm waiting to see if it becomes a major headache to end this, as I've seen happen with others.

With all the talk about bad service from Pictage here, I'm going to avoid them. I was considering it as it sounds like a great thing...fulfillment of orders, previews, your own rep and all that...but it sounds like it's just not worth it at all. I feel bad for Pictage...but not too bad. If we all had bad reviews we'd lose business as well and it would be fair. Maybe they have just gotten too big?

Thanks everyone for venting and showing how Pictage really treats their bread and butter. It's too bad because they COULD be great.

Count 1 more potential customer lost to bad word of mouth.

Bruce and Jason,

If you don't mind me asking, which solution did you decide to switch to? I am in the process of researching all my options for On-line proofing and order fulfillment.

I don't. I have never had a bad experience with Pictage.



Of course, I've never used them either.

I took the entire opposite route of Pictage and I'm now fullfilling everything in house. I bought Photo Cart and I love it so far! Working very hard for a client, and then not having any control over the final product they see just isn't appealing or happening to me anymore. I want more control instead of less.

If it ever gets to be too much for me and wife to fulfill everything ourselves, we'll just bring someone on part time to help us with it. That would still be less money than what I was paying with Pictage.

Thanks for sharing Jason--Photo Cart is on my short list--PickPic is a little to pricy for me at this time (although, I have heard great things about PickPic).

I'm currently just building simple custom galleries for online preview of images. Not even a shopping cart. My one package places emphasis on the album, and very few of my clients care about prints. I expect that, should they desire something beyond the album, they will ask and I will accommodate them. I just like to keep things as simple as possible.

However, if I reconsider the shopping cart option and decide to implement a process, I will more than likely go with PhotoCart, as Jason mentioned. Robin uses it also and I am very impressed with the features, as well as the customer service. Plus the price is great!

Thanks Bruce!

I posted on the Pictage forums about leaving today, and had a call within about 5 min. The post was also deleted nearly as fast. I do understand that they have the right to delete posts if they wish. I was told by my rep that it was delted until Michael could do some research on my problem. I was also told by my rep that Michael would be calling me when he did some research. Don't know how long it takes to reseach why I can't get my check this week, you know the week before Christmas, befoe the banks close, and before I go out of town, and before the first of the year.

They do deal with alot of Photographers. Unfortunatley, I am not one of the Photography Rockstars that they deal with. I have heard that the big guys don't get special treatment, but I bet the rockstars don't have to call and beg Pictage to cut them a check every month.

I really do like some things about Pictage Print fulfillment is the biggest thing as well as the the free album design, but the odd accounting, no direct deposit or paypal deposit, and the slow printing and delivery time, negate all of the good for me.

I used to use EZPS it was GREAT! However, I do need something that will do fulfillment for me as that is where I get the most backed up. After the first of the year, I am pulling the plug on Pictage. I pay about 60% of what I earn on print sales back to Pictage every month, I feel like they should at least get checks out in a timely manner, and tht is my biggest pet peve with them today.

Yes, Photocart is awesome. I began using it and I am very happy with it. When you thinks is 1K cheaper than its competition and does everything they do... Wow... with excellent customer support and awesome user community!

And... don't forget... lifetime free update.... I am glad that he is willing to provide a good product at a great value that we don't have to get a third mortgage to buy!

+1 It seems this is the only way I can get answers, or niceties is when I complain on a forum. Except when I called tonight to ask about some questions regarding canceling, the rep was rather nice. I have some P3 payments scheduled and asked how that would work out with canceling now and they said that the P3 payments would still go through and I would still get paid as per my current billing cycle and I wouldn't have the monthly fees charged. Hello PickPic, bye-bye Pictage!

Add me into the leave group. Divorced them about 3 weeks ago. Pictage is not profitable unless your a high frequency shooter.

Didn't have time to read the entire post, but it seems like a repeat of often-voiced problems with Pictage. All that to say....

I sure wish they would get things together b/c the idea of Pictage is wonderful to me, but the execution...not so much.

Unfortunately, I think I just experienced the last straw with Pictage. My main goal is to find another alternative at Imaging USA. I'm quite sure they won't be sad to lose me as a customer though. My last straw experience was quite funny in a horrible way - I've been laughing about it for two days now.

The frustrating thing is - they make it really hard to leave. I guess that is how they get away with what they do. Seriously - I have a million events uploaded there - it will stink to not have that access. Plus all the P3 payments set up. ughhhh...

They have such a GREAT concept. I just wish they would get their customer service act together.

Jill, with the problems I've had I don't know whether to laugh or cry, seriously! They don't make it easy to leave, I'll tell you that right now.

To leave, I just emailed my pro rep. He called a few days later with some options (doing his job). I told him I'd think it over, emailed later to say no thanks, discontinue at the next billing cycle.

Now we'll see if they stop charging the card, etc. Gotta wait a week or so, since my billing cycle hits the end of this week.

I was given an option, then the next day they took it away. So they basically told me that I could either continue to pay, or cancel, no options really. I think it's probably because of this post, they are not happy about the way I've spoken about them publicly, so they've chosen to treat me really poorly.