Recently I got into a discussion with some wedding photographers who believed whole heartily that they were in a cut-throat business and you had to be the best to get the gigs!
I disagreed with them and basically tried to remind them that weddings are not a dying breed/business and that there are other photographers out there who really want to be assets to one another and help out when needed!
Hopefully I encouraged them in their ventures!


What I want to know is what you all think about our wonderful world of photography? (this can include other forms as well, not just weddings!)
Are WE in a cut-throat business?
Can we really help one another out? If so...How?



Personally I think that any vendor in a wedding type business is in a win/win situation...for the sheer fact that weddings will be around forever! In NC and as I have read from many of you...we have been in places where other really great photographers are out sharing how to DO the business and do it good! THANK you all for sharing YOUR dreams with us to help make OUR dreams more of a reality too!

Thanks to those who participate in this opinion poll!

I'm pretty new to photography as a profession, but one of the things I did when starting out was to contact other photographers who's work I liked to ask if anyone would be willing to let me shadow them/learn from them. I contacted 4, and Chris Uglanica got back to me and let me second shoot on several of his weddings. His philosophy is "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."

He's sent clients my way and encouraged me in my work.

The other 3 photographers never even got back to me (but that's ok, cause Chris was my favourite to begin with) and I have heard that there are some photographers around who see the business as a pie that not everyone can share in. Which is really ridiculous, since on July 7th, there were something like 500 weddings in town.

Unfortunately there are some who are cut-throat, envious, competitive, whatever, and I choose not to associate with such. I'm not new to business, however I am new to the photography business. I have surrounded myself with other photographers who are willing to share the lurve and I share what I know in return. It's funny but I've noticed that those new to the business are the ones who are more competitive than those who've been around a long time. I guess they are confident in their own abilities and so aren't afraid of others.

There are many ways we can help each other out. Education, encouragment, back-up, etc. I'll give you an example. I found a new photo buddy who basically just started this year too and we have been having many conversations about pricing, encouraging each other to not sell ourselves short, and to get paid for our services. I so need this person in my life right now because starting out it's hard to rid of the old mentality to sell low to get the clients. So, we are keeping each other accountable and are trading experiences and information– it's great!

There is a video of DJ speaking on this– it's at the Freedom Club but it might be here too and it's really good. He says that our real competition are the clients and not other photographers. Makes so much sense. I'll see if I can find it.

Whatever you're looking for, you'll find it.

If you believe we're in a business full of abundance, than you'll find that there's abundance everywhere. If you believe this is a cut-throat business, than you'll find competition everywhere you look. Some people are naturally pessimists and think that everyone else is competing against them- and they're right because they're competing against everyone else irregaurdless of what others are doing.

For me... I live in a wold of abundance, where there's more than plenty to go around, and where helping others leads to more rewarding work and more rewarding people to work with. Rosy colored glasses? Absolutely! And I live a wonderful life because of it.

Nicely said. I couldn't agree more.

Amen, amen, and AMEN!

There certainly is an abundance of brides not willing to pay enough for us to live on.

That's odd. My average booking amount so far this year is $1000 higher than it was at the same time last year. If I shoot 30 weddings, that's around a $20,000 raise for me. I guess it's just me their willing to pay extra for!

On a more serious note, I do think photography is a competitive field. I think it is a good thing that I feel that I always have to be producing better work to remain at the top of my chosen field. I really believe that the photographers that are struggling right now are one of two things: people getting their business on the ground, and those that can't or won't continue to advance their skills. Hey, that's the same with any business, isn't it? It's not easy to start a business, and if you become complacent and rest on your laurels, you lose the business that you gained by working hard and satisfying your customers.

Cory

<donning my "Chicken Little Hat" again>

Anne and I dissagree on a few things on this subject. The reason for the difference: she's still young.

I've been in this business about 12 years (full time photog -- primarily weddings). I was the new kid on the block back then, honking off the established "studio" or "classic" shooters because I was primarily Photojournalism -- and a purist in the PJ art. No fancy lighting or silly Kung-Fu posing for me. Why not, I was just done with a 10 year run as a full time news photog. We hated grip and grin group photos... why shoot them in weddings.

I had some good sucess, but never hit much more than 20 weddings. I doubled my prices every two years, and felt good about my future in the industry.

Then digital happened. The world got flat. And those old "classic" guys started coming to me for advice on how to understand what the "new" digital age bride wanted. Why weren't they still getting their 30+ weddings a year? Why were "all of these young girls getting the weddings?"

They couldn't fathom why folks (mostly girls) with little skill in lighting or posing (as the old farts saw it) were booking 50+ weddings a year, and the old farts were scratching around to keep a dozen or so weddings.

Some observations about what did change:

Disks and negatives and proofs enticed brides to hire the inexperienced -- the noobies. After a year or two, the disks and negatives went away, as the noobs wanted to move from making ends meet in the business -- to making a good living. But with Digital cameras, came decent home photo printers, IPhoto, and PhotoShop elements. Everyone wanted to be able to print "Their" wedding images themselves. Copyright is dissapearing quickly, as well. Remember napster?

Other factors like Weddings on TV (Platinum Weddings, Whose Wedding is it? etc) have fueled the wedding frenzy. Folks with a digital rebel, and a pink slip from work are finding motivation to move into the field of wedding photography. Girls get married, love the wedding experience, and want to continue with those feelings. So they see weddings in pop culture, and see a way to be 1) self-employeed... 2) in the wedding "happy" biz... and 3) be creative/artistic while bringing in some $$$

This is NOT a bad thing. Unlike the "old fart" photogs of years past (of which I'm fast becoming one), I don't see change as a detriment. But, when the rules change, you've got to learn to adapt, and set new expectations. The old farts didn't want to make the changes. Those who know what Swan and I went through in the early years, know that I had to be slapped in the fash with a mackrel to accept the "give the disk" change. Since the digital revolution/influx of noobies, those who don't embrace change will wither.

What is bad is when the growth of the providers of a service grows faster than the growth of the sector they're servicing.



Yes, weddings will be around as long as people want to get married. But are the numbers of brides hiring photographers climbing at the same rate as the number of photographers entereing the wedding biz?

The numbers I've seen say that the Echo boomers (children of baby boomers) who are just now begining to get married -- will only increase the number of brides by about 10%. But, in our market, here in Indiana, I've seen an increase (taking into account those who drop out) of at least 25% on average, each of the last three years.

A friend of mine, also the local guild president, kept a spreadsheet of local photographers -- all of the ones he could find. He finally gave up last year, saying there were too many to keep up with now.

So: Yes. You can sucede if you envision it. If you put your mind to it.

But the better question is, how many of those in the wedding biz, or trying to get into the wedding biz, will still be in biz in another five years?

Look around your markets. See how many of the Notable or Rock Star wedding photogs that got their start in the last three to five years are still trying to get 50+ events a year. See how many of them haven't had to re-adjust their pricing down to keep that number, or to retool their packages to include more bang for the buck, to keep their number of events where they want to be.

How many of these rock stars are now giving seminars? How many are selling software, hawking DVDs, website design, etc to capitalize on their status (while they can).

There is about to be another new generation of photographer hit the wedding biz. The Echo Boomer Brides that are just now coming of age, are also, just now, entering the photographic field.

My prediction... overall, the industry will have another 5 to 10 years of rapidly changing business models, and faces.

Bella and Pictage are going to be two key indicators to watch. They are already partnered up. What if they merge?

OK... that should be enough food for discussion. Have at me, though varlets! (Sorry, I went to a Renaissance Fair this weekend)

I think that there is definitely abundance as long as you are willing to be YOU. Whenever we get caught up trying to be like someone else or compete with someone else, we inevitably forget to be ourselves. Our world is diverse and people seek photographers that they connect with. If you pretend to be someone that you're not, then the wrong people may connect with you and you might feel like you can never get the jobs that you want. I think that when we miss out on making the right connections, we start to think that we're in a competitive market, when really it's just that we're afraid to be who we are.

An abundance of people are looking for you and an abundance of people are looking for me. Our goal should be to find those people who are looking for us. When Gerald and I meet with a client who we can tell isn't really looking for us, we are quick to refer several other photographers who we think they may connect with. I was just talking to Gerald the other day about how blessed we are by the network that we have here in Seattle (Bill, Erwin, Me Ra, Tish, John, Cory, etc. (please don't feel bad if I absentmindedly left you out)--I can't imagine trying to fly solo in this industry and constantly feel like we were in "competition" with them--they are my colleagues and I want them to succeed just as much as we do!

Stepping off my soap box now...

Airika

P.S. I just reread Cory's post and I agree with him on something very important: we need to be constantly bettering our skills if we want to continue to meet abundance. In that sense, we are in a competitive market, but again, I would argue that we are competing with ourselves--to be better than we were before, but not to be better than so-and-so.

Let's not forget that the reasons a network works is because a few people are in it and a lot of people aren't.

But whose "fault" is it if they're not in the network? The network I'm referring to is totally open and not all assembled from one place...except maybe OSP, which means it's open to anyone.

Wow, Anne... that's such a wonderful way to put it!
IMHO, even in this TEENSY town, there is NO way that I can photograph everybody, every event, every thing that is going on! There is more than enough business for everybody here!

i think its unfair to quote a price (not you personally being unfair, just 'unfair' in general). your location and demographic have allowed you to charge what you can charge. i'm in a totally different situation. i am located in a country where money is not as plentiful as it is in the US - judging by my last 4 weddings (i am just starting so really, my 'only' 4 weddings) the majority of people here do not care about good wedding photography, or good portrait photography, they only care about what is affordable. so what am i to do? i've realized it is more than likely that i will never make a decent living from this.

i was at a seminar last february and met a nice girl and we have kept in touch - i just found out she charges like a 50 cents for 4x6s, $3 for 8x10s, and so on. her wedding packages are minute. do i consider this cutthroat? yah, i have to admit, i got a little upset when i found this out. admittedly, her work is not the same as mine, but in the end, customers here just really dont care. so who do you think they are going to hire?

Just to play Devils Advocate... what if the photographers in your area doubled by this january, but the overall population only increased 10 percent?

My point is ... when is the point where there are too many service providers, and not enough consumers?

But it's not simply a numbers game... (most) brides don't just line up and take the first available photographer like they'd choose a checkout line at the supermarket. Quality comes into play as well... There could be 100 new photographers in the Philadelphia area tomorrow, but unless they're offering significant quality and targeting the $3-5K demographic, they're not necessarily going after the same market segment that I am.

I'm sure the fact that I live in a good market has something to do with my outlook as well... Tami, I really feel for you living in an area where people don't care as much about quality, and I'm sure my comments don't apply as much to your situation.

All that said, yes I'm in competition with lots of photographers in my area... but it's generally friendly competition and we help each other out. Not cutthroat at all.

I know for a fact (and by direct comparison to another photographer in my city) that you absolutely do NOT have to be the best in order to get tons of business. You just have to market yourself well, and that's what my fiance and I are still learning to do.

Also, I'm pretty sure if I could show you these people's work, you'd be like, "WHAT?! HOW DO THEY EVEN GET ANY BUSINESS?"

But, they market themselves REALLY WELL.

Haha.

I'm not trying to be snarky, but I am seriously puzzled as to how people can look at their photos and say, "That's who I want to photograph MY wedding!" I'd be willing to bet you guys would feel the same.



I had even contacted these photographers about offering a fun little photography workshop together for moms in the area, and they wanted to nothing to do with it because they "don't want to help other people take pictures at the risk of creating more competition."

If you live in London like it says under your name, there are people in London that care a great deal about their images and have the money to pay for what they want. They just aren't your clients yet. I did weddings for a whole lot of people that had no money and didn't really care about the images that they were receiving.

Two things happened that changed that. 1) My work improved and 2) I started charging more. I found that the amount of respect I received improved and I started to get better clients.

The bottom end of any market in business is very cut-throat. When you are selling a commmodity and the only differentiation is price, it will be cut-throat. As you move up in the market and the perception of your potential clients is that they are purchasing something of value, it is less cut-throat because you are perceived differently by your potential clients.

Kmart sells jeans. Bannana Republic sells jeans. They are basically the same thing. At Kmart you can get them for $15. At BR you can spend as much as $120. The differences are many. Almost all of them have very little to do with the fabric.
Cory

well i get sort of tired of doing all the work - i learn all that i learn about wedding photography, then someone (this girl ihave been speaking about) asks me all the questions and i just blab out all the answers to her - so she gets the quick and easy answer when i am constantly studying, learning, improving, etc. so that is why i am starting to feel a bit like this myself.

Aw. I can definitely see your point, Tami. Understandable.

For weddings, the middle is cut-throat. Clients expect more for less and they can get it. From a Bella photographer's personal site:

$1,500: 8 hours of event coverage, Unlimited Locations, 2 hour engagement session, 11x 14 print of the session, 1-11x14, 10-8x10 prints, 12-5x7 prints, 40-4x6 prints, 100 Thank You wallet prints, and 10 x 10 20-30 pages Wedding Day Album, Online viewing & ordering, Engagement session 11x 14 print of the session, CD of all Wedding Day Images (your "negatives")

It doesn't help that there really isn't much to differentiate most of us. Here's a post from The Knot:

Do all photographers' works look alike or is it just me?

I'm in the process of finding a photographer for our wedding in November 2008. We live in NYC which has a gluttony of wedding photographers. I've already met with 4 photographers and seen their work, and honestly they all look alike!

Does anyone have any suggestions about what to look for in terms of the quality of the photos?

Meanwhile, there is a huge untapped market at the bottom ($1,000 and below) - but you can't make a living at that unless you have very high volume - really the only way is to have a big business with part-timers shooting for you.

And there's not much high end at all. (Look at my post on the statistics.) What little there is is concentrated in the bigger and trendier metropolitan areas. And if you don't have contacts in an already established and tightly-knit network of high-end referrers, you're not very likely to break into it. It's not an accident that for most photographers, weddings are only part of what they do - and that the most successful wedding photographers are doing other things to make more money (seminars and products etc.)

We are moving into the stage where the the big studios and national companies will start taking over the majority of the market.

It's called consolidation -- and it's been happening for years in free market economies. Airlines, banks, beer companies, grocery stores, etc. It's difficult for artisans to compete with the economies of scale that large companies like Bella offer. While the number of weddings is projected to be fairly constant in the near future...the number of wedding photographers seems to be growing at a faster or higher rate. Thus, market opportunities would appear to exist in selling stuff to new photographers. I've made provisions in my business plan for these opportunities.

BTW -- don't hold out hope that Bella or another national chain will buy out your studio...it's far easier for them to just rent your services on your "open dates"...it's a quick easy buck for you...and a very wise long term strategy for them. I don't know that I'd ever work for Bella (as a photographer)...but I would probably invest in them were they ever to go public.

Yep... we have a rapidly decreasing middle (unlike the middle of my torso!)

Those who can will upgrade (probably a few) -- but the vast majority are going to downgrade.

Why will they do that? Because there is always a new entrant to photography -- with a news photog background, or a few classes in college -- who will have a decent portfolio, a good personality -- and give away the farm just to get the "portfolio building" weddings.

We live in an age that has already been "Napsterized" -- brides WANT the digital files of the images. They can be educated out of that position -- but it's too easy for the new entrants to give them away to get the business. As long as brides and mothers are thinking that they've paid for the "pictures" they want the files.

I'd love to hear the "secret" to convincing them otherwise!

But, back to the topic at hand: The middle is mostly going down in price. But the photographers have to go UP in price to raise and maintain their buisness income in the face of growing competition.

Those of you who are full of good vibes and full calendars just need to wait another year -- network the heck out of yourselves. But you will see a dip in business. You might be able to ride the horse a bit longer, but you will become the "old fart" photogs. Some of the girls in our market, that were the trend setters four years ago, are adding value to their packages now, to maintain their booking numbers. In other words, they're rolling their pricing back to two or three years ago levels, to stay competitive.

The blue ocean theory is great. Four years ago, giving away the disk of images was that blue ocean. Now its spread. With the shear numbers of new entrants, and reinvention by the established studio, the blue oceans are becoming lakes, and, I predict, puddles in a year or so.

I wish I had an MBA like Dan -- but I was stupid and got a Journalism degree.

Great example, Cory!

oh Rowena and Anne yes I love how you both said that

it's so hard because we all want to do well and have enough (some want more then enough, me too sometimes) and fear makes you contract! I don't want to contract so I try to fight through the fear and your words are inspiring!!



Troy pick up the latest issue of Picture magazine, there are quite a few old pros in the business who disagree and feel like the contraction and negativity we're all basically discussing here are what is causing the some of the shrinkage you are talking about in all walks of photography.

Though I see a lot of great packaging seem to make a lot more money then great art... but that is that high end market. Wrapping means as much as message.

WOW! This "topic" really has been great to hear all of your thoughts and experiences in the wonderful wacky world of Photography!
I am really glad that I got into the conversation now with the photog couple who believed that we live in a "cut-throat" business! Otherwise I would not have posted this question...or at least not now anyway!

Thank you all for showing and sharing the goods, the bads and the ugly's of photography and "-phers"!

Keep bringing them on...this post could definitly go on, I know there are still so many opinions and "amens" out there!
What do you have to say on this topic? or comments on what someone else wrote?

Here's a recap of the major opinions:

1. Think positive happy thoughts about your future and your business -- like attracts like! (There, we just saved you $20 bucks on "The Secret" by Rhonda Byrne).
2. Be realistic about the state of the market... it's going to change. You've got to be ready to change.
3. You're eventually going to be an old fart photog, so enjoy it while you can!

PS: There is no substitute for training and education. Whatever you feel is your weakest area -- in photography or business -- go get educated and begin to practice it. EG I hear a lot of folks say that they prefer "Photojournalism" so they don't have to take those pesky group photos. Which probably means they don't like them, because they haven't learned how to do them quickly and efficiently -- and still be creative. I felt that same way, so I made sure to attend NEIPP and studied with three NON-photojournalists who excelled in posed and portrait photography.

I think Anne was 100% correct. A lot of this is about our attitude and the connections that we have made. I also realize that this is a time of year where it's easy to get negative. It's not the busiest time of the year for bookings, and the wedding season is coming to an end in many parts of the country.

The fact is, is that the business has changed, is changing, and will change some more. People can adapt with it or die. It's really that simple. It is really almost impossible to keep up with all the new albums and new stuff that is coming out constantly in our industry.

If this happened, there would STILL be too many people for me to photograph.
I don't know at what point the market is oversaturated. But I know that in my market, I'm WAAAAAAY overloaded with demand.

IMO - if there comes a time of market saturation combined with shrinking available capital (I think this time is beginning to happen), then you will see the amount of competition dry up as photography will go from being perceived as an easy, profitable job to a job that is potentially profitable with a lot of work involved - a much less appealing proposition.

Wedding photography is a cool job to have at the moment just being a web designer was really cool back in 1998. It no longer has the same romance to it and neither will photography once the level of competition increases enough so that it takes a lot of work to really succeed (ask a mortgage broker in California how many people are looking to break into that job these days).

Those who really care about photography and put in the time to make it work will survive this and make a living. Those who are just on the bandwagon will go on to the next big thing (not that all new entrants are doing that, just that the market pressures will come to bear and those who don't want it bad enough will go on to other things)

I don't think there is an infinite market here, but I also don't think that this is cause for pessimism. The people that really want to succeed as photographers will do what it takes to do what they love.

ken

I am noob, so I am glad this topic came up. It has been looming in the back of my head, will only the strong survive? I did 1 session, the mom showed her pictures around and now my phone will not stop ringing. Im freaking out because I KNOW there are way beter photogs in town. So if I can hardly keep up, than the seasoned pro must be doing quite well. But, I suppose demographics play a huge roll in this. Then again, there will always be weddings and babies. I think networking with other photogs can only enhance ones skills. Just look at what this forum is doing for it's members. Maybe the photographers that develop an attitude about networking will be the ones that fail. Wow, reading everyones comments has really made me look at this in a whole new light. Glad I have a day job!

From Mike Larson's Pictage "Ask & Learn" discussion tonight about how he got his first destination wedding:

"I GOT THE 1ST ONE A FEW YEARS AGO. THEY HAD A PHOTOGRAPHER, AND I HEARD FROM A COORDINATOR THAT SHE WAS DOING THE WEDDING. I SOUGHT HER OUT AND MADE AN OFFER TO THE COORDINATOR TO GET A MEETING WITH THE BRIDES FAMILY. THE WEDDING WAS IN THE WEST INDIES, I WANTED IT SO BAD, I COULD TASTE IT, BUT I KNEW I WAS GOING TO HAVE TO GIVE FIRST, AND FIND A WAY TO SERVE HER CLIENT MORE THAN THIS OTHER PHOTOGRAPHER WOULD. I SOLD THE CLIENT ON ANOTHER VENDOR WHO LIVED HERE IN SOCAL, ON MY CINEMATOGRAPHER, SHE LOVED IT, THEN I SHOWED THE TEAM PACKAGE WE OFFERED AND WHAT I OFFERED, AND SHE LOVED IT MORE, THEN SHE DROPPED HER PACKAGE WITH THE OTHER PHOTOG, AND BOOKED WITH ME, I BENT A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE SHE ALREADY HAD A DEPOSIT, BUT NOT TOO MUCH."

I would venture to say that in most areas there are MORE weddings than there are professional photographers. Because of this, there is no NEED to look at our industry as being competitive. The problem is that a lot of photographers don't look at the fact that there is more demand than supply, and start playing the price game. It's these photographers that bring on unnecessary competition.

Tell me - if there were more people that needed blue jeans than the retail stores could provide, do you think that you'd ever see blue jeans on sale?

I'm fortunate enough to live in an area where a bunch of photographers happen to be very close to the same price range. None of us believe in dropping our price just to get a deal, which keeps the price at the level that it should be at. We all loose weddings to each other on a regular basis, but at least we know that when we loose a wedding it's not because of price. I don't mind loosing a wedding to another photographer if the couple selected the other photographer for the right reason (i.e. personality, style of work)...but it drives me nuts when I loose because someone else was "cheaper".

Yes, there are also a LOT of photographers that play the price game in my area...but they only hurt themselves. Those of us who are similarly priced will constantly refer business to each other when we are unable to take on a job and as a result we build each other up to be stronger. Those that constantly try to win weddings by lowering price do NOT get these referrals and suffer as a result.

With supply and demand the way they are, there's no reason that we can't all work together to keep the prices at the point where it's profitable. Yes, most of us run our own businesses and we are our own bosses.....but we can still work as a team and all benefit from playing nice.

T

It's only cut throat if you let it or make it that way. I've been hearing for ages that the east coast is way different that the west. They seem to get along better, share more, and be all around less competitive.

I disagree!

Goto your local PUG meetings.. you don't have to be a pictage member to go either. They are a great social gathering where you can meet local (and some not so local) Photogs that are outgoing, NICE, and share what they know just cause they can. Now I'm not saying I'm gonna give away any idea I have or my promo materials but I will help anyone I can, just because they asked.

These are also great places to meet someone to 2nd with, or have them 2nd for you. It's really cool to see how others works and see them in action. Plus you can build referal networks to get jobs when others are booked.. if that aint the furthest from cut throat I don't know what is.

demographics play a huge role in either your success or loss. but i suppose your marketing technique comes in to play as well - if you sit on your ass and do nothing to market yourself, then cry boo hoo becasue your phone isnt ringing, its hardly anyone's fault but your own - but if you really work it, and still nothing - then , well......

I am just curious, how many weddings are there any given weekend in your area? I have done a search for your area and came up with at least 200 photographers. Given, some of them might be already out of business. So presume there are more than 200 weddings in a given weekend.

Anyone that had statistics would know what a bell curve is, and that can be applied to almost anything. It certainly would apply to our market as far as supply and demand and "product life" and even price. Just something to think about!

It is a very interesting topic and I think there are a lot of good points on both sides of the fence.

There may be 200 photographers coming up in a search of yours, but there's far from 200 active WEDDING photographers in the area. I'm sure most other markets are similar....you'll have the ones who are trying to make a living doing photography, and then you'll have those who are happy keeping it as a glorified hobby.

T

Didn't have time to read the thread, but...

I don't think we are in a cut throat business AT ALL. I do think that the creme floats to the top though, and I do think that some folks business skills are better than their photography, and vice-versa (I definitely fall into the LATTER!). But I have to say that the minute I entered this biz full time back in 2003, I thought of all my fellow photographers as colleagues, and not at all as competition. In fact, I am part of many neat enclaves of photographers where we meet for lunch and laugh and discuss the business (and drink some wine... . I love learning from shooters with different perspectives as myself. Even if we don't always agree, it's the process that I enjoy.

We can help each other out too! There are many ways...

(sorry this is Geneve, not Raluca, I need to Log her out!!!!!!!!)

isnt it healthy though to view other photographers in your locale, who offer basically waht you offer, as competition?

Read my first post and then scroll down to #13.

http://www.opensourcephoto.net/forum/index...;hl=conjectural

You get out of life what you look for out of life.
If we buy into the idea that we WILL experience a decline, then we set ourselves up to experience that decline. We mentally 'give up' the drive to go forward, to improve, to grow.
We limit ourselves by our thinking...our attitude. If we believe we can't, we won't. If we believe we can, we just might.... IF we do the right things, and do them consistently.

We set our commitment for next year (some call them goals) at a number that roughly represents a 40% increase in the number of weddings we will photograph. Our attitude is that not only can we reach that number, but that we WILL reach that number. The only question now, is what do we have to do to reach that number.
We have re-evaluated and refocused our marketing plan, and we've committed to working it. At this point, we are up about 30% in the number of bookings compared to what we had this time last year. We expect the increase to continue, because we KNOW we can make it.

Years ago, when the country was experiencing a recession, I heard a professional salesman make this statement: "I refuse to participate in a recession. I'll just have to work harder."
I've always remembered that. If there is going to be a decline in the numbers for wedding photogrphers, it just means I am going to have to work harder. Those brides are going to hire someone to photogrpah their weddings. The market I serve has the disposable income, and will have. Sure, they are looking for great value, but not necessarily lower price.
As long as enough people are buying Mercedes, Lexus, and SUVs at confiscatory prices there will be an abundant market for quality wedding photography.

There are those who will not agree, but those who do will continue to thrive.
It's about attitude.... and hard work.


Mark

Maybe these statistics will make you feel better...I see $dollar signs$ every time I read them!

**2.3 million couples wed every year, that's about 6,200 weddings per day! (U.S. alone, so that's not counting destination weddings)

**The average wedding budget is $20,000

**$72 billion is spent on wedding in the U.S. every year

I think there's PLENTY of business to go around!

Yes, .... but.... the average actually spent is a little over $27,000
That means that SOME of them spend a whole lot more than that!

Mark

bump!

It's crazy but I was completely dumbfounded when I found out about "cut throat" photographers. A local photographer who I was talking to told me that her sister was getting married and how she was going to do pictures for her. Well a photographer who she's worked with in her old company called the girls sister and told not to have her do her pictures and just started bashing her all over the place : ( .
Well she told me that after that she started to find out about how this other photographer was manipulating her clients and now her clients have nothing to do with her. It's funny because they liked her pictures and everything before.
I will from now on keep my head up!! I was very sorry that this had happened to one of my close photographer friends.

-anya

Wow, Troy, this is so aligned with what I've been thinking. Folks who do photography seem to be divided into three groups:

1) "I'm a fulltime photographer! By the way, I sell seminars/workshops/DVDs/web solutions/flash modifiers too!"
2) "I'm a fulltime photographer! My spouse has a 40 hour a week job with health and retirement benefits."
3) "I have a fulltime job and work as a photographer on the weekends".

It seems like the majority of photographers on OSP fall into one of these three categories. What does this tell you about the ability to make a living wage just taking pictures?

And how will people make a living when there are only 10 weddings for every photographer?

As the number of professional-ish photographers boom, established photogs are riding the product/service wave. But these new folks are also doing product/services or their own. What happens when there are only 5 photographers for every product/service?

What I'm saying is entirely unrelated from whether or not other photogs are viewed as friend or foe. I'm just saying there are certain demographic realities that trump all the wishful thinking in the world.

-TM

Is there a career out there with emotions, money, & power involved that is not cut-throat?

Back-stabbers and throat-cutters are a part of life...just be sure to wipe your finger prints off the handle before claiming your innocence

I'll make a silly prediction and see where it goes:

Most wedding photography markets in the US (excluding the really small markets) will see an increase of enough new arrivals -- beyond those that drop out of the market for a net increase of about 25 to 30 percent growth in number of "professional" photographers in the market.

If your pool of brides is only going to increase about 5 to 10 percent in that same market... ask yourself what you need to do to survive that growth rate.

to all of you noobies... remember that 80 percent of all new small businesses fail within the first five years. In this new marketplace, you better not only be good at photography, but also good at business, marketing, sales, project management, post processing -- OH, and have time for yourself and your families as well.

I think I found a picture of me and you, Troy:





-TM

HeHe!

(for some reason I can't think of a good heckler line right now!)