Let's find out how trully is Pictage doing in the retention of their partners.

Vote and give the reason for staying in or for leaving... How long you tried it and when (year and month, if you can)

Please, no just post "I love Pictage" or "I hate Pictage", please be as specific but short as you can. This is not a Pictage bash thread, but a fact finding thread.

We are the people Pictage want to reach and keep happy. I just want the Pictage dudes to see numbers and hear reasons with the hope that they will truly and quickly do something to fix what I see as a loss of confidence on Pictage by those using Pictage.

They may not be aware of how big is the problem or maybe we think is bigger than what really is, but let's find out.

So, I need as many people to vote and speak their mind...

Tried it and left.

I was one of the original members to sign up. Problems with accounting were the primary reason I left, but also too many random changes to policies and pricing, never knowing who my customer service rep was, never being able to reach a live person unless I called VPs or Directors personally, etc.

In the interest of full disclosure, this was 5+ years ago. I've been told things are different now, but from what I've read/heard on the boards I'm not sure I believe it.

I tried it and left.

I only tried it for a few months, but in that time, had 5 separate accounting issues (my primary reason for leaving). I hated the fact that I was mistakenly charged, and while they got around to fixing the problem (often taking weeks at a time) I was paying finance charges on my credit card for something I never should have been charged in the first place.

My other major reason for leaving was the shipping charges. I went online as a customer and wanted to order a couple of 4x6's (as an example). The website clearly states that it'll take 2-3 weeks to get my order, which seemed like a really long time to me. In order to rush ship ship it, it would have cost more than my order. This was not something that I wanted my clients to associate with me. I felt like I was being gouged on shipping in prices, and if I felt that way, then certainly at least some of my clients would have felt the same way.

My third reason for leaving was the cost of goods. It seems for the $99 monthly fee, I would at least get a discount on prints or what not. But it seems like i was paying more to have Pictage print my prints than other labs. Which didn't seem right. So, not only were they making money off of me every month for my monthly fee, but they were making money off my prints, my album prints (which I find very high priced), and shipping charges.

So I left. This was in late 2006/early 2007.

Ksenia

Great... keep up coming

I'm a member but plan on leaving soon. The $99/month fee is just too much, especially in the winter months when I'm not shooting weddings (my choice).

We tried it and left. We were with them for about 14 months. From about February 2004 to March 2005.

We left because of the extremely inconsistent print quality. Occasionally the prints were fine, most the time they were really bad. Getting remakes done was a total pain and took forever. We also got sick of them telling us issues were being worked on, and they never actually would fix the problems. I continued to follow the forum for about a year after that, and the same stuff that we had problems with they were still making the same promises that they were "working on that."

When we left, we left thinking we might some day return to Pictage, if it met our needs better. After we left, we had so many problems with them that we will never go back and work with them again. It took almost two years to get them to actually cancel our account. This was after numerous phone calls to get them to finally close our account. In that time period, they re-released events, against our wishes. Continued to send our customers emails, for events that weren't active and pretty much made us look really bad and incompetent to our customers.

I guess what I am trying to say is that we had two partings with them: the first, we planned to go back some day once they worked out their print issues; the second, when we finally got them to cancel our account, they caused so many headaches and wasted so much of our time that we decided we would never work with them again.

I am in because they offer a few things I can't get elsewhere...P3, file backup, and the ability to have folder of images sent to me by ftp.

I would leave if I could find another company that could offer those things and would allow a more customized "storefront" that emphasized my branding. We pay a hefty monthly fee to bring customers to them so I don't really understand why they are so reluctant to let us brand ourselves.

I tried and left.

Mainly because my little ol' business could not afford the cost. It was costing me way more than it was earning me. Even when figuring in the hours it takes to self-fulfill.

But, I was always pretty happy with the service level. They always got immediately back to me when I had questions.

My only real complaint was the amount of time it took to get an order delivered (with WHCC - the turn-around time is really short - with Pictage, it was a few weeks unless you rush the order).

Are you listening Pictage?... I hope you are paying close attention of what has been say so far.


My hope is this thread become a very large one with many opinions and then, I 9we) would like to hear from Pictage.

I can hear a lot of frustration between lines...

Please, go on...

I'm in, and I love it, and I don't plan on leaving anytime soon.

With all the value the add to my business, the $1,200 in fees annually is a total wash. That is more than made up in P3 processing alone, and there's a ton of other reasons stay with them, which have been discussed here

+1 i was heavily overcharged 500+ and didn't find it until months later. hey i've been busy. numerous calls, emails to customer service no return calls. when i did get a return call i was at my 9-5 and by then they were gone. oddly a very nice pictage customer service rep that was on osp one day that heard my pleas for help on this forum, helped me. still they took over 2 months to get me refunded. don't get me wrong i do like the services offered by pictage but, that customer service or lack thereof, before my savior came was a nightmare. i really would love to go to pickpic, but until then i'll be with pictage. hopefully things will get better that will change my mind before then. you never know

So far... 80% has a negative opinion of Pictage while only 20% has a somewhat good opinion of Pictage (two person has said that if they could, they would leave.)

Put it another way 4 out every 5 have a bad opinion of Pictage.

or, only 1 overy 5 person has a good opinion of Pictage.


I know they have the numbers of how many people have sign on over the years and how many have left. Someone at Pictage should look at those numbers and see if the average has gone worst or better over the years.

Again, this is not a antiPictage thread... I am member of Pictage. This is a thread to find the trith of what is going on and maybe help Pictage wake up.

6,000 or more photographers with Pictage and you have 10 people comment and you're going to make a conclusion from that? .1% of the users?

Jill, the new customer interface with more emphasis on photographers branding is coming out by the middle of next month. Pretty cool interface! Check it out out here!

+1

I love the new interface and can't wait until it's switched over. My problem with Pictage is wanting to have control of my prints myself, so I found out I can now do that by making things photographer fulfilled products. I like WHCC so I can incorporate that into my workflow. I've only been with Pictage since January and I am still getting used to the features and I understand that there are a lot of changes in the works.

It sounds to me like Pictage is going through tremendous growing pains and perhaps they grew faster than they could internally handle it. I'm experiencing that in my own business, which is great, but keeping it managed is hard when you weren't expecting it.

I'm using them and I have my frustrations, but I'm not going to quit on them just yet.

Tried it, didn't have the time to set it up and learn how to really use it so I left, and they billed me for a month after I canceled. Apparently you can't cancel via email - it doesn't count unless you speak to your rep. Even though I wasn't using the service at all (never even uploaded a gallery or looked at the forum and I think I *might* have signed in two times in three months) - they refused to issue me a refund for that month. I would've considered going back had I not had to jump through a bunch of hoops just to cancel my service. I'm still upset that they wouldn't credit my card back for that month.

I'm getting a thousand dollar check every month that I wouldn't have gotten otherwise.
What can you say about that. My clients love their prints, and I love their money...it works for us!

I also take credit cards and payment plans like a mad man through Pictage, probably would have a huge hassle with a credit card company if it was for Pictage.

I don't love everything about Pictage, but I'm better off with them than without.

my$.02

+1 on the new interface, it looks sweet and from what I've seen it blows anything else that's available right now out of the water. It's so sweet!

We are in too, and staying for now! Worked through the new user interface with Adam at the last PUG, its going to be much better!!! Rock on Nathan!!

new interface looks really good actually.

I tried it for just under a year and for some reason it took me that long to decide it didn't fit my business. Main reasons for leaving had to do with ridiculous shipping fees, waiting a month for my check (sometimes more, sometimes they just rolled over my profit instead of cutting a check!) and never knowing the quality of the prints I had going out. Then when I tried to cancel it took me a couple tries.

I really don't mind self-fulfilling either because I repackage my stuff so it's branded with me.

David - quick additional question - what's YOUR customer retention? How many wedding clients have you had come back for portraits or make repeat trips to see/order from you? Out of how many?

I too am excited about the new interface... very nice!

But not too excited about the constant issues with print quality...

The fact that Pictage says it has 6,000 users does not mean they have problems that should take care of.

That alone does not negate that so far most people that has answer the poll have a negative perception of Pictage and their complaints are about the same either print quality or billing errors. It is foolish to look the other side just because Pictage says it has 6,000 subscribers.

With this poll I just want to find out how widespread is that negative perception among OSP members...

I don't know what that has to do with the topic at hand.



Want to know my experience with Pictage? More than happy to share...

For the most part it has been a positive so far although I am not sure if for me is cost effective. I want to remain in Pictage. I want it to be great. I have a great rep... Michael Caro... and Pictage has always been very responsive to me and my needs. I don't share any of the bad experiences related here at OSP. I have no complains about spam. I haven't had any problems with print quality that I know of. So I have nothing against Pictage, nothing at all, except concerns based on what I keep hearing here and at the Pictage forum about print quality and that $99 a month may be a bit higher for me. I want to make all this very clear.

well, i voted as the first, but i wish you had given more options. i'm sorry, but I don't think your poll is valid because it's obviously skewed toward the negative side.

a more complete poll would have said:

Have not tried Pictage, would like to.
Have not tried Pictage, would not like to.
Currently using Pictage, moderately content.
Currently using Pictage, very content.
Currently using Pictage, customer evangelist!
Currently using Pictage, but evaluating other options.
Tried Pictage, left because it did not fit my business model.
Tried Pictage, left because it was cost prohibitive.
Tried Pictage, left due to quality of products/services.


and then in your opening and continuing statements...try not to influence the voting with your opinion (until like a day has gone by).

also, keep in mind when you hear negative comments that many of them are from people who used the service years ago, and those issues *may* have been fixed. i'm keeping my ears open for more current issues.

currently i haven't had any issues. i use pictage because i wouldn't have time for print fulfilment any other way. but it's expensive, and with my low print volume more of an expense than revenue generator (so far). it's just now starting to even out. but still, i wouldn't want to be a photographer who couldn't offer prints...so there ya go.

i am worried about the quality stories. especially since i don't know what my clients are receiving. luckily, i don't order proofs, so this ezprints thing doesn't affect me. if it did, i'd be upset.

however, i love the interface, love that they do it for me, love that my clients can hide pictures without me having to do it, love that it's an extra backup. and no issues so far.

so anyway, while i agree with what you're trying to do...you're not really generating anything but more disgruntled stories and bogus info.

Who cares what other people think? Seriously. If it works for you it works for you. End of story. If it doesn't work for someone else, it doesn't work for them. Again, end of story.

Yes, it can help to hear others experiences if you are thinking about trying something new, but if you're already there, you've got your own experience to draw from.

As for me, I'm with Pictage now. Have been for about 10 months. I have been pleased. But, in the beginning, all of the rants and raves about quality had me so keyed up I was more worried about what MIGHT happen than what WAS happening. It seemed I was constantly waiting for a reason to jump ship because so may others seemed to have issues. But that's no way to do anything. That's letting others run your business. I know what I need to make my business successful as I define success--not how others define it.

Pictage is not a one-shop stop for me. I use them for a handful of things, some of which is printing. I still do about 30-40% of my own printing and designing but it's nice to know that option (Pictage) is there if I need it. I don't care where they get prints made. Neither do my customers. I just care that the prints are good and get to me in a timely manner. So far that has happened. Sorry t those of you that have had bad experiences. And don't tell me my clients won't tell me--I know. I get it.

The most important thing to me about Pictage? The organization and workflow it allows me in dealing with my clients. Creating folders. FTP'ing their selections back to myself. And, yes, the emails reminding my clients to order. I don't do any of the promotions and I only offer basic prints for reprinting--4x6 through 11x14. Reprints that bog me down and I welcomely let Pictage handle that for me. Since I don't do promotions and I only offer basic prints through Pictage, my clients don't get a ton of emails. Only one announcing the event and one or two letting them know everything is about to expire. And EVERY time that expiration email goes out I get a ton of orders. I like that.

I still use Asuka quite a bit. Zookbinders. Burrel Pro Labs. And my Epson 9600. And things are going much smoother, I have to admit, now that Pictage is taking care of alot of the little things such as reprint orders. That leaves me time to do the things that are important to me and that I feel untimately brings in the bigger bucks--my photography, album design, and selling books and albums.

Pictage is not a be-all-end-all. It is another tool. Only you can define what tools you need and how you should use them.

So, I'm relatively happy with Pictage, but I'm always examining my business to see if there is anything that can be improved. In that regard, I guess I'm always looking for something better than Pictage, but so far I've yet to find anything that offers my business more than they do.

I love Pictage. Pictage saved my business and gave me my life back! I have not had any accounting issues - and I do meticulously check my statement each month because I enter every line item into Quickbooks. I think I was one time over-charged for uploads when I was on the old basic plan, but it was refunded to me within a few days.

A couple of reasons I think Pictage has been extremely successful for me - I switched from film to digital at the same time as joining Pictage so I had no digital workflow to speak of and really went through all the training, asked tons of questions, and followed all of the Pictage "best practices". Since I was switching to digital at the same time as joining Pictage, I did not already have a workflow and system I was trying to fit in and make work with Pictage.

I thought that the monthly fee would be too high for my business, but last holiday season I was completely proved wrong. Including accounting for the monthly fee, my net profit from print sales increased 5x! And since I am a mainly portrait photographer, about 80% of the clients were repeat customers and I could directly compare what they purchased in 2005 (pre-Pictage) to 2006 (with Pictage). I was seriously blown away.

And there are intangible benefits to Pictage that I haven't found elsewhere - the community is amazing, the conferences are top notch, and my PUG is awesome.

I have been extremely happy with the print quality, the products, and I LOVE P3 - it saves me a lot of headache and fees. I have also found the customer service to be very responsive and quick to respond.

The only complaint I have is that I had an order delayed, and I'm glad that it was caught by QA and fixed and not sent out to me with a mistake. BUT, my suggestion for improvement is that I would have prefered Pictage call or email me and let me know of the delay instead of me having to call and find out why I hadn't received it yet.

I am really excited about the new interface, and all of the other new and exciting things coming up with Pictage! I can't imagine going elsewhere. But I do get that Pictage isn't for everyone. In which case, use something else.

Maybe you are right.

I am not an expert at polls. I wasn't trying to be exhaustive just wanted a general idea of the perception, good or bad, and not the degree of satisfaction of Pictage users. So I chose questions to try to have a quick look at what it the real pereception in numbers.

My perception by coming to OSP and the Pictage forum is two fold: (1) therte is a hate-love relation with Pictage. Either people love it or hate it. That is weird. (2) it seems that "most" have had a negative experience. I wanted to find out if that was so and when those experience where. I think everyone particiapting so far has been honest and fair as to teir experiences.

It can be very confusing at times reading this forum. So I just wanted to see if I could do something to clear it up. That is why I though about a poll.

I almost regret my starting the poll. My intention was trying to help clear up things not add to the confusion here. I felt that if could be establish in numbers what is the perception and if there was really a consensus that there was a negative perception about Pictage I felt that by putting it in numbers Pictage could use that information to deal with whatever is creating the perception.

But maybe you are right, Maybe I should have left it alone.

This has been the party line since Pictage first started. Seriously. This has been peoples' excuses for them for something like 7 years. At what point is a company expected to stop with the "tremendous growing pains" and start being held responsible for their problems?

Karen

Tried it and left. It was so much more involved than say collages or digilabs to upload at that time (I understand they've addressed the learning curve/start up process). At the time I was running a fairly good sized studio and found myself frustrated at taking SO much time to do the job I could do in about half the time on other sites. Plus, I had print quality issues and another photographer's work sent to one of my clients. They fixed it, of course, but it didn't reflect well on me. At the time I was adamantly anti-Pictage. Now, not so much as I see that in most cases they are trying to get their act together. But it's just not for me, at least for now.

Karen, just to be clear... that was said by someone and not by Pictage.

I can certainly understand growing pain and how that affect your performance and that it can be hurtful to your brand if not dealt with properly.

I am going through one of thise right now and I spend sleepless night trying to keep up and protect my good name. It is scary, though, when you cannot keep up.

Right. And my comment was that people have been saying that about them for years. I do totally understand growing pains - and I understand taking on more work than you can handle. I've been there and done that. But there comes a point where you have to take some responsibility for that ... I know I did. It's one of the reasons I wound up taking time off - I had to stop and regroup.

Karen

Careful about your words... I've missed where I or anyone else said anything about turning our backs to Pictage's weaknesses. I was simply calling attention to a faulty poll and quick conclusion that you made based on that poll.

I'm not quite sure exactly the point of your thread. Your experience with Pictage has been mostly positive, but you start a thread that you know will draw negative commentary from a select few who want to bad-mouth the company.

It just seems kind of odd...

Oh well... long live open forums where you can say what you want...

I would be honestly interested in knowing how many of those 6000 subscribers are actually ACTIVE and use the service on a regular basis. I know several people who signed up with them back when they were offering free listings on the Wedding Channel (or the Knot or whichever, I forget which one) and never actually used them.

I also know that they keep photographers names listed even tho they haven't used the service in a while.

I mean, I could say my board has 1800 members, too, but really only about 400 of them visit every day. And fewer than 100 of them actually post on a regular basis.

Karen

I want hard numbers. I mean, I want to know if there are people using Pictage that are actually making money. I signed up with Pictage for a month and I was out. I hated the interface, the fees, yadda yadda yadda. I use instaproofs. Do they print? No. Do they ship? No. Do I have to process my orders myself? Yes. But hello, for AT LEAST 5k in sales a month I'll not only process the orders I'll do a song and dance too. I have been with instaproofs since they started. I have outperformed in print sales anyone that uses that service. I want to know if there is someone who is the equivalent of me in sales with Pictage. Who are the allstars selling a ton and making a ton? Do they exist? Now, I don't give files/negs so that might factor in when you get down to totals etc but I am just really curious. I just don't understand the mentality of "I don't have the time to process this order". I only do this full time so to me, its part of my paid work. Plus an order only takes me 2-3 minutes to process. I take all the orders from one week, burn it to a DVD and my lab comes and picks it up and drops the prints off in a couple of days.

I just can't imagine paying monthly fees to just be signed up with a service. What percentage do they take of the orders? Again, I was only with them for like a month and a half before I canceled (2004?) but I have only heard horror stories about overcharging, horrible prints, the list goes on and on (a lot of it has already been mentioned here).

I am curious. Who is making it over there at Pictage?

I agree with Nathan. You can't base your percentages off of 10 comments. I believe that people are likely to give a negative comment and talk about their frustrations on a thread like this then to state their positives.
I enjoy Pictage and it has been a lifesaver for me. They free me from doing the things that I hate to do like ordering and shipping. I do agree that their cost is kinda high for photographers ordering prints so I use another lab for my sample prints. I will also never use Willowbooks. They need a better company to order their proofbooks from. Otherwise, I am completely happy with Pictage and I enjoy receiving my checks every month with doing little effort on my part!

Johnathan--

Checked out your blog. Your work is great!

As for who's making it at Pictage? That's really a subjective question. "Making" it for one person is "missing" it for another. I'm satisfied with my Pictage experience right now. I travel alot. I don't always have my files with me. Rather than wait a week to 10 days to get back to my master files to place an order, it's nice to know that is taking place while I work on location.

Works for me. Perhaps not for you. And that's OK both ways.

If you can't imagine pending $99 per month with Pictage (plus 10% commission) that's cool. I'm glad you've got a system that works for you, but it's not fair to criticize those that choose a different work flow. There's reasons for every decision made by every business. That's it.

I'm not going to try and convince you to use Pictage. It really doesn't matter to me how you go about making your business successful. I'm just glad to know that you are able to make a living doing what you love. But I don't see any reason getting worked up one way or the other. Hell, I might leave Pictage in 3 or 4 months--I might be with them another 50 years. But you can sure bet that any decisions I make will be based on what I think is best for my business, not what others tell me is best.

Everyone has different strengths, different needs, and different measuremeants for success. Again, Pictage is merely a tool. That's it. It works for some--seems to me to be those that have a small staff (if any at all) and those that travel a lot. It doesn't for others--those who live in larger areas, perhaps, and have staff to help with the details. And sometimes, those who work alone but are willing to put in the work it takes to handle everything in-house.

Different business-different needs--different abilites--different workflows--all OK.

I don't know. I've yet to have a $5000 month at Pictage, yet I feel like I'm making it.

Anyway, I don't mean to come across harsh with you. I just get tired of reading posts from those that feel Pictage is a worthless waste of money just as I get tired of reading posts from those who feel Pictage is the only way to go. At the end of the day it's your business and only you can determine what's best for you.

I am sorry if you got offended. But I believe your were trying to dismissed as irrelevant those who have had a bad experience with Pictage. (as I have sometime done too in the past).

What is my point... I want to find out if those who had a bad experience are really a "select few" as you put it or if there is really a generalize negative perception of Pictage among OSPers. I think this is the best way to find out.

I started a thread that will bring people to share their experiences, good or bad. I don't remember saying... "those with good experience need not apply". They are welcome to share their too.

Risky? of course. Unpopular among some, yeah!

You know what is funny... when people criticize Skooks Karts nobody gets offended but when someone shares a bad experience with Pictage all the sudden we dismiss them as a "selected few". It may not be my experience but I won't dismiss it or them that easy.

Now, this comment summarizes how I feel and one of the reason I made this thread:



I agree 100% with everything he said. I truly believe that because this thread gives everyone the opportunity to share what they think those who have been confused with the never ending Pictage battle in OSP will be able (I hope) sort out the difference opinions and make their choices based on facts and not bias, be it in favor or against Pictage.

sorry if I came off as getting all worked up. definitely not worked up, just under worked and overpaid .
i just am really curious as to what is going on over the the world of sales at pictage. i was not aware they did 10% commissions. is that correct? for some reason I thought it was more but then again, like I said, i was only with them a month.
i guess the reason i am so gung-ho instaproofs is because i feel anyone can be doing what i am doing. there is no secret to it. there is a "formula" in the fact that there are some things that are really effective in online print sales etc but i just like the idea of anyone being able to do the volume if you are shooting.
its no secret to anyone who has an account over at instaproofs. you can see totals for everything like highest total sales/biggest month sales/biggest order total/etc. this month alone I have a little under 12k for the 62 orders i've gotten. again, 2-3 minutes average processing the order and then another 2-3 minutes packaging etc. then the 15 minute drive the ups store and i just drop it off (they know what to do with it since I come in so often). a little over 5 hours of my time. worth every penny.

Johnathan,

First off, if I was getting 12k a month just on repint orders I don't think I'd change a thing! Good for you. I' not sure you even need any extra info on Pictage--you're obviously doing things very well as it is.

Let me try and explain why Pictage works (right now) for me. I live in a very small town (about 12K) in a very poor area (Mississippi Delta). I've had as many as 12 employees, but I found that the more people I had working for me, the less I was actually doing what I do best--photography--and the more I was creating task lists and managing employees. Plus, in my small town, good employees are hard to find.

So I downsized. Considerably. It's now it's just me, and while I don't make as much money as before, I keep more. And I'm doing more creative things because my focus is on photograph--not managing employees.

I have made a conscious decision to focus on a few areas that I feel I am best at-photography, designing my own books, albums, and cards, and marketing to current and prospective clients. And because I live in such a small and finaicially challenged area I have to travel to find clients that match my target market.

When I had 12 employees I still traveled--not as much as I do now, but enough to know that when the cat's away the mice will play. Things went well when I was in the studio, but let me hit the road for a few days and all hell seemed to break loose. So rather than constantly trying to find good employess I chose to be done with it and outsource to a company like Pictage. And if that doesn't work out, I'll find another company. But so far things have worked out. Hopefully my relationship with pictage will continue to only get better. But if it doesn't? Well, that's why I evaluate every aspect of my business at the end of each year to see if things are working and make changes as needed. Whether it's letting go of 12 employess or letting go of Pictage, the bottom line is I have to know what I'm trying to do as a business and what I need to accomplish to get there. Then find the tools I need to make that happen.

So, for me, I like having a centralized work space for me and my clients that are spread out all over who-knows-where. Most can't come to my studio--Pictage then become my studio. And my sales numbers are considerably less than yours. All I can tell you is that my gross sales are about 10X-15X less with just me than they were when I had 12 employees. But my net sales are up almost 100%. So, yes, I'm satisfied.

There really is no formula for what works with Pictage. Yes, sales commision is 10%. Yes, lab costs are a bit higher than other places. Yes, there are areas that need improvement--just as there are with any company. If you are happy with fullfilling your own orders,and you're making good money doing it, and you're able to continue doing the things that you enjoy in your business--such as photography--I wouldn't even begin to recommend you change.

But for someone such as myself who is tired of trying to find decent employees who work hard without me looking over their shoulders, someone who wants to focus every ounce of energy I have on my creative side and not (for me) what becomes a tedious task of fullfilling an order for 2-4x6 prints, Pictage works.

I'm not lazy because I don't want to fullfill those 4x6 orders. I'm just practical in what I do best and what I don't do best. And my clients are better served because of it. Which ultimately gets more clients in the door and brings current ones back--and isn't that the end goal?

I'm still with Pictage currently, but I am leaving. I have not uploaded any of my recent events there. I am waiting for the last of them to expire and I am OUT. I am in the process of getting my PickPic cart set up and in the meantime I'm using EZPS which I had before Pictage.

I signed up thinking it would save me so much time and energy... it actually got worse. I was dealing with so many client issues that I didn't have before, some were print quality, some were CS issues, some were spam issues, most were turn around issues. My clients were waiting 3-4 weeks for their orders.

Pictage actually increased my workflow time because I felt like I had to do better than proof quality with every image I uploaded and forget their color correcting. I cringe at the thought of my clients ordering proof quality prints directly through Pictage.

I signed up with Pictage last December and my print sales have very drastically plummeted since then. From December through July I think it was, I had only received one check - for just over $100. Most months I was paying $500+ because I was still printing proofs for some clients. I think it was August I finally made a decent chunk of change (a little over $1k) because of the coffee table book promo.

The fees and the print prices are astronomical for the (lack of) quality and service I (and my clients) was receiving. I would be perfectly willing to pay the money if I were getting good quality prints, good customer service (on my end as well as my clients') and quick turn around times, but none of that was happening for me. It took me posting a rant on OSP to get noticed. Before that my issues were completely ignored - LITERALLY. I wasn't even assigned a pro consultant until my rant on OSP, despite asking several different people before that.

I loved Partner Con and I love my PUG group, but I cannot deal with Pictage's empty promises or lack of quality and service any longer. I know that others have had great experiences with Pictage, but I also know that there are many like me who have been treated like the red headed step child and just won't put up with it. At this point I wouldn't stay with Pictage if there were no monthly fee, no commissions and print prices comparable to WHCC. I was ready to leave before Partner Con in Chicago, but had a renewed spirit after speaking to many people at Partner Con... I heard all about changes and promises of me being assigned a pro consultant... it didn't happen. It's sad because they do have a fantastic thing going, they just need to be more consistent. There should not be so many people with the same issues that keep getting ignored.

In the end, Pictage was not right for me and it was actually making me look pretty bad to my clients. THAT I will not deal with. I'll happily pay the year's worth of Pictage fee's to PickPic and self fulfill my orders... or hire someone to do it for me.

I think David's point is that he has come to a point where he has realized that other people's opinions and experiences with Pictage have some validity. Those of us who have something negative to say about Pictage are not just a select few who are trying to bad-mouth the company. Many of us, including Adam and I, truly wanted Pictage to be a great part of our company and "partnered" with them for an extended time with a very positive attitude. We really like the Pictage concept and wanted it to work, but the problems we had with Pictage (most of which I have never mentioned on here or anywhere else) were literally ruining our reputation because Pictage fouled up so badly with our customers, repeatedly, over a year's time. We spent hours and hours of our time trying to work out customer service issues, poor print quality issues and issues with other things with them. Our goal was to have them be a major part of our business. I still think the concept of Pictage is a good one and I realize that many photographers have had a good experience with them, we did not, and Pictage did virtually nothing to try to work out those problems for us. That is my experience, and yes, it is valid whether you think so or not.

In David's first post, he asked that people post their actual experiences, good or bad. He also asked that people post when they were with Pictage and for how long, in order to help others understand that some of these issues may have been worked out. He also asked that people not turn this in to a I hate Pictage/I love Pictage, everyone else is wrong thread. You are one of the few people who has turned it into exactly what he asked it not be. He is asking for honest experiences and acknowledging that all those experiences have validity, whether good or bad.

No, there are not thousands of responses to his poll, but the responses are gradually growing. Yes, because it is a small number of respondents it would not be as statistically relevant as if it were thousands, but it is a start. Hopefully the number of respondents will grow so that it does become more statistically relevant.

I've said all I want to say about Pictage in the other thread.

However this one has given me an interesting idea. I think I'm gonna ask some of my clients what their experience was and what they think of the client end of things.

i freaking lovee love love pictage. Seriously.

yes they are growing. but getting a BIG check every month that i did no expect and having them pay my credit card processing fees... wow. just love it!
Just by having them do that and counting in the 1,200 that i pay yearly, i've saved almost 4 K this year in processing fees.

LOVE them!

Lynn got my point exactly.

For some, including myself, Pictage has been a good experience. I have had good customer service and no print problems. Whenever I got an issue it has gotten resolve with in a very reasonable time. I have even made more sales than before because of the different products they offer.

For other, it is obvious they have had bad experience. None got into Pictage to have a bad one but because they were excited about been in Pictage. Something happened that they lost faith in Pictage and left.

Like she said, the main reason I asked for the time frame of each bad/good experience is to try to see if those unhappy situation were all in the past or are happening today.

For other it could be just that they pick the wrong business solution. But only by listening to their story, good or bad, you can decide what happened, whenit did and if it does apply to my decision making.

Everyone has a reason to choose or not to choose, but only by listeneing to those reason we can find out if they hold on water or if they are good for us. They could be people in Pictage that could be making more money if they did it themsleve, but Pictage made them see that they could do it or gave them the rganizational skill to do what before they could do. It also could be that some have sour grapes against Pictage because it didn't work as they expeceted.

It has been said that confession is good for the soul. Maybe it help Pictage, as a company, accept that they may have screwed up in some cases and figure out what they did wrong so it does not happen to those with the good experience.

It may turn out that most people in OSP have had a good experience... then those who had a bad one will know that their cases were isolated ones.


I truly appreciate everyone honestly, candor and time sharing their experience.

And I guess that is the difference - I'd rather spend that 5 hours doing something else and I am willing to pay $99/month to have Pictage take care of it (and by count it seems to be more than 5 hours - unless you only go to UPS 1x per month). I was willing to pay Pictage $150/month to take care of it, but reduced the fee. Plus, Pictage includes nice packaging with the orders, which means it is one less thing I have to buy and store. And the 10% commission? I raised my prices more than 10% to cover the commission when I signed up with Pictage.

5 hours a month is 2 extra portrait sessions I can shoot - and that is huge for me because it means I am spending more time doing what I love - photography - and less time doing what I hate - ordering and packaging. The more I photograph, the more prints I sell, and the more referrals who book with me. The $99 + commission is well covered (not to mention the album design which saves me even more hours and P3 which saves me in CC processing fees).

And to answer the question in your previous post - does anyone make money off of print sales with Pictage - yes, I do. And my net profit is higher with Pictage than it was before. I had serious doubts that it would work for me - and I really am astounded by how well it has gone.

But, as I've mentioned, I certainly do get that Pictage hasn't worked out for everyone - and it's not meant to. It is the right solution for me.

I'm not sure if I mentioned it before or not, but David asked how long people have been with Pictage. I joined in February 2006.

Tried it and left. I used them from Jan. 2006 to Feb. 2007. I only had a couple of issues with Pictage, which weren't big issues at all. I actually highly recommend them to those starting out. They have great tools and offer somethings that others don't.

I love the PUG community. There are some great people that are members.

But, the reason we left is that it didn't fit our workflow. It honestly added too much time uploading, checking the galleries, looking over statements, etc.

We are able to maintain a print fulfillment service and not pay anyone to do it for us. It really isn't as hard as everyone makes it seem.

I tried it and left. I was happy with it, but didn't think it fit my workflow. A few months later after getting a custom cart and doing all of our print fullfillments.... I am Back with Pictage!

Tweaked our workflow and am much happier focusing on things I enjoy doing.

Thanks Pictage

Your experience is interesting.

I know from other threads that you like your cart (Pickpic) and you like Pictage also. So I know is not beause you had a bad experience with either.

What made you consider going back to outsourcing to Pictage after doing selfulfilment?
How has your workflow changed to make Pictage a better solution for you than Self-fulfilment?

Could you share a bit more about the whys of your decision?



P.S. After reading some of the comments people have written about their reason, I think I would have worded some of the alternative a bit different, specifically as to the reason why people left. It is clear to me now that not everyone that have left or will leave is because a bad experience. That is why commenting your vote is so important. I also can say that, at least for me, this thread has helped me a lot to understand better this whole thing.

Again thanks for all your votes, comments, honesty, candor and, most importantly, your time. Much appreciated.

This is what I gather so far...

• Most people that are in Pictage are having a positive exoperience.
• Those who have left Pictage have done it for various reasons and not always because of a negative experience.
• Those who have left but didn't have a negative experience, left because it didn't fit in their business model.
• Most negatives experiences have been in the past.
• Few have had bad exprience in 2006-2007.
• Level of Current Pictage satisfaction is high.
• Most of those who have not try Pictage, won't.

The last one is the most interesting one. We don't know why they won't try it. They didn't say. Could it be that some have been influenced by the opinions of some OSPers with a negative experience with Pictage. It could also be that they find that it does not fit their business model, be workflow concerns, be cost, be that they want to have control over QA or even enjoy self- fulfilment.

We don't know the details of why some had bad experiences, and, in all fairness, we, that are outside, cannot place blame in anyone for it without examining the evidence beyond the testimonies. That does not mean that those with bad experiences are wrong. All it means is, that if I want to be fair I cannot blame anyone until I have examine the hard evidence and hear both sides. In some cases it could have been bad calibration, or wrong color space, in some it could be bad photography and in some it could have been Pictage's fault. See, we don't know what exactly went on and we only have their word, and based on that it is very unfair to say thatpeople should stay away from Pictage, spite of most having a good experience... and even some that left want to rerturn.


I think everyone had a chance to tell their story, good or bad. I truly think that no one can conclude from them that Pictage is a bad company.

Quite the contrary. What I can conclude is that Pictage is a company that is trying hard to be successful, that has improve over the year, still the leader in its field, challenging others as they go and challenged by others too, and, like any company (including my own) it has had some good and some bad. As anyone that has worked for a company knows, the company is at the mercy of good or bad employees. If one drop the ball it is the company (as it should be) that is responsible. So, as any company (including my own) it has some areas to improve.

Hope this thread has been helpful in sorting out this whole debate. In the bottom line is a business decision that can only you can make for yousreself. It should be done after listening to the experience of current users and of those who have left, placing their opinions and experiences in their proper perspective, analizing if what they offer fits within your business model, looking at its cost/benefit and should be done after you test it yourself.

If you don't agree with me, feel free (I know many will) to tell us why. I would like to hear it.