Hi,

I don't mean to sound ungrateful, but Showit-DVD's offerings, sexy as they are, simply don't cut it for me as an Australian photographer.

Here's why:

* Shipping: Admittedly I haven't been able to find out what the S&H price to Australia is, but even if it's cheap, there's still the fact that it's unavoidably slower and riskier than shipping within Australia.

* Currency: It doesn't make sense for my customers to pay USD to an AUD photographer. Sorry. But it just doesn't.

* Bandwidth: I know it sounds silly, but broadband in Australia is still slow, and hosting is expensive. So uploading and hosting the extra photos for DVD creation is not completely trivial. Admittedly this is something I can comfortably work around (because I use US-based hosting), but it does impact on the desirability of MPG downloads for my customers.

And finally, this would be true even if I was a US-based photographer:

* Price: Asking someone to pay USD$49 for a few minutes of photos on a DVD I have already paid $200 + $xxx/year to license the software and music for is just ridiculous (pretty packaging notwithstanding). That I would see $0 profit if I sold them at that price is also ridiculous. In my market, I would not expect this product to sell for much more than AUD$30 (approx. USD$25), ESPECIALLY since it's effectively an advertisement for me anyway. I mean, I would happily GIVE these DVD's away for their business-generating benefits!

So, why am I posting this? Because I want to be able to create my own DVD's, and I think that being forced to use Showit-DVD and its base pricing (not to mention its US-centric model) is ... well ... a HUGE let-down, given how awesome (and generous) every other aspect of Showit-Web is.

Would I pay extra for the DVD authoring bits of Showit? Of course!

I'm not trying to start another whinge-fest here ... I've played extensively with the demo of Showit-Web, love it, and will buy it within a week. What I am hoping for is an acknowledgement that Showit-DVD isn't meeting the needs of some photographers (I'm sure I'm not alone) and some thoughts on how this could be resolved.

The outsourcing model just isn't for everybody.

I order stuff internationally fairly frequently - including from Australia. I usually get it within a week - and shipping for small items is very inexpensive.

AUDs are just like USDs (only smaller). If you do anything at all on the internet, you get used to exchange rates (and we're only talking one product here). It's not a problem for credit card companies.

Show-it DVDs have a place - but if you want to do your own, get ProShow Gold.

I dont know much about show-it DVD but Pro Show Gold is FANTASTIC...only downside is its PC only!!!! grr i wish i would change that!

I order from the USA regularly too, but we aren't talking about me ... we're talking about my customers, and in the market I'm in, ordering a product from the USA in USD when I'm an Australian photographer who trades in AUD will sometimes present a problem ... courtesy of confusion, fear, or just the "too hard" factor. Feel free to dismiss these concerns while enjoying the comfort of your USD, but it will do nothing for my customers.

I'm aware of PSG and will be looking into it more closely, but ultimately I'm very happy with the functionality Showit-Web delivers and would prefer to avoid creating a similar slideshow twice (especially when the PSG one would take longer to prepare and look less pretty). Given DJ has the technology to create DVD's from Showit-Web slideshows, I thought it would be more sensible to pursue the possibility of having that technology available to us in a form that is viable than to jump ship silently ...

But thanks for your thoughts!!

So order it for them. Because of the pricing (as you note), Show-It DVDs aren't going to be much of a profit maker for you - but they are good advertising. I'd just give them one for free or cost - and upsell them to a ProShow DVD.

It doesn't take any time at all to duplicate a basic Show-It slideshow in Pro Show if you don't use a custom timing template, but the real reason to use it is that it you a lot more control than Show-It - and the dvd quality is outstanding. (I've never seen a Show-It dvd, so I can't say anything about the quality there.)

They really are aimed at two different things: Show-It for quick web shows and ProShow for sophisticated dvd slideshows. A Show-It DVD is sort of a compromise.

Thanks for the feedback, we understand that Showit-DVD is not for everyone and especially difficult for international customers. However, we do know that there are a lot of photographers that showit-DVD is perfect for and they have embraced outsourcing and we provide a pretty no-effort option to provide their clients with DVDs.

That said, we are continuing to look into options to include in Showit Web to provide export, but the technology used in the DVD service is not something that can be packaged and distributed at this time based on the software it is using. Showit Web was designed as a Flash based web only product, so going back and putting in video export or DVD capabilities is almost a re-write to make it happen. We appreciate your feedback and will continue to work toward what our customers are asking for. Thanks,

Todd

Thanks for your responses, one and all :-)

I've installed a PSG demo and have been very impressed with it, so will probably buy both products ... they each sit in a different space.

As it happens, I've looked at showit's xml files and PSG's project files, and feel confident that I'll be able to build a converter to get shows from showit into PSG. For me this will be a great time-saver, as I love the speed of preparing timed shows in showit, but still need to prepare high-quality DVD's. I'll add some DVD-specific extras in PSG, no doubt, but not needing to re-do my showit work will be great.

My next question is: will developing such a converter upset anybody? My hope would be to share it with others here, but I wouldn't want to tread on anyone's toes. I can't see why it would, as both tools are "best of breed" in their markets. Anyway, let me know. I hope to have something done in the next couple of days.

Thanks Todd!! I personally love the Show-IT DVD model as an outsourcing solution, but I would also love to be able to burn my own dvd's for personal projects and friends. For clients, there's no doubt that I don't want to deal with order fulfillment or packaging or any of that, so your service is AMAZING!

But for example, yesterday I went and climbed a mountain with a dear friend and I would love to make a show-it slideshow and burn her a dvd, but I'm not going to spend $39 to make a show for my friend, as much as I love her.

For my clients I'm loving the show-it dvd service, but I wish it was more friendly to make personal dvd's (meaning we could just export ourselves without use of the internet or you guys). Would love to see this functionality in future versions if possible.

Thanks,
Shawn

[quote name='linarms' date='September 19 2007, 12:32 AM' post='206946']


Would I pay extra for the DVD authoring bits of Showit? Of course!

/quote]


+1
I am a control freak and want to package the disk myself.
The other side of the coin is Pro-show, this gives me the option to burn DVD's, but does not have as smooth of web capabilities as Showit. (IMO)
I intend to use Proshow for higher dollar packages, but for simple shows for which I would much prefer Showit, I have to compromise & use Proshow.
Once Showit gets burning capabilities, I'm sold. In the meantime, I settle.

Quoting from my post at POTN:

Here is a screen shot showing a fully loaded showit slide show. It's now about 80% of the way there ... I just need to get the save to PSG finished. After that I'll probably tackle conversions that go the other way ... for v2!!

I think that to ensure I'm able to support this little tool (which does cool stuff like auto-detecting the highest res files it can find, opening the JPEG's to figure out aspect ratios for the conversion, displaying thumbnails while it's loading ...) I'll need to charge a few dollars for it. Just so I can afford the time to offer bug fixes and new features, support new versions of Showit web/PSG/other slideshow products, and of course help people use it.

BUT I still need a few beta testers. I have 2 so far, but 3 more would be good. For your efforts I'll give you the tool for free. PM me if you're interested! I should have it ready for testing in 1-2 weeks' time (allowing for hitches!).

If you can't download the attachment, try here:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=380155

Hmmmm... not to rain on your parade, but here's a cheap fix that *should* work fairly easily.

Should be possible to use a $30 or so piece of software to do a video screen capture as a ShowIt slideshow plays. Capture the video and audio playing, then convert it over to a DVD format.

For the Mac, I think it's called I Show U (I'm not sure what the Windows software would be, but it's out there) -- Use it to capture the video -- you may have to cross the audio over by using a cable between the microphone and headphone jacks.

That method should give you a file you can run through IDVD on the Mac to burn a disk.

If you or someone else has a better plan for about the same price, it would definately be a great idea!

+100Try Fotomagico, It is awesome, it does ipod, HD, DVd, etc,etc... lpus is for MAC and you can do your own DVDs.

I don't feel like my parade has been rained on :-)

My understanding is that screen capture options produce sub-standard results, and given they will only ever "see" the show-resolution photos, I'm not surprised (and that's assuming they even manage to capture every frame).

The tool I'm about to offer will be about the same price and produces very slick results from hi-res photos (if you have chosen to add DVD files to your show). Plus it gives immediate access to PSG's DVD creation smarts and other features.



Fotomagico seems to be the Mac equivalent of PSG. I've started exploring the possibility of supporting it with my conversion tool. From what I've seen, its show creation features don't come close to Showit Web, and like PSG its web shows are pre-rendered (yuck), but the rest of its features look pretty decent.

What about sizing the ShowIt show to 2100 pixels x whatever (and importing high-res files) when you first set up the show?

Doing that with the screen capture software capturing off a larger monitor (at least 17")

I haven't done this, but we've been talking about doing so just in case a client *really* needs the exact showIt show converted to DVD.

I've looked at the DVD folder that the new ShowIt Web creates, and it looks like it only sizes the DVD files up to 800 pixels wide.

Perhaps someone else has tried this?

For a DVD, 800 pixels is high res ;-)

Many have tried screen capture, and all have failed to get a quality video as far as I have heard. The other issue is that when you have show-it running 800 pixel shows it takes everything your system has to show it smoothly, and does not have the "umh" left to do a smooth capture of the video.

Huh?

$49 is YOUR cost NOT the customer's cost. You can price it at whatever your market will bear.

My customers love it. I charge $275 for the 1st DVD. Other people charge more.

True, but I wouldn't want to sell it at a loss ;-)

Don't get me wrong, it's great that Showit Web has outsourced DVD support. It's just not the right fit for everybody, that's all.

Hi Eric,

Just chatted with a friend that filled the 21 monitor on his Mac G5 with a showit web show, and ran the screen capture. He said it looked great when he ran it through Toast to a DVD.

I'll have to see his set up and the final product to know what he really did.

Edit: Makes me wonder what DJ is doing to transfer the web shows to DVD...?

Ok, an update for everybody.

ShowTransformer is now available from here at an introductory price of $39:

http://www.onefinedayphotography.com.au/software/

All because of this thread! (Well, partly anyway ;-))

I want to be clear from the outset that this is not me trying to put the brakes on Showit-DVD ... my belief is that this will make Showit Web a more desirable product for people who aren't in a position to take advantage of Showit-DVD and/or want more control over the process.

Cheers,

Luke

Thanks! I have a graphics person that's designer the covers for my DVDs. I wanted to include a "transportable" copy of the SIW show so I can give them as a gift to the bride and groom. This will help a lot!

Very cool. Thanks for creating this Luke. I am just surprise I didn't hear about this sooner. It wasn't until I had give up on the frustration of the other solutions out there such as screen capturing and swf converting. Be mindful that I am very good with computers, software and the likes. Yet, your solution just works right off the bat without anything problem at all.

Just a suggestion, since I am such a big software UI and usability type of guy. On the ProShow Gold options screen, it would be nice to be able to hover over a hotspot next to each of the options to find out more what each does, or how it modifies ProShow Gold options. I went searching for a manual or FAQ but there wasn't one yet.

Thanks,
-David

I do not know much about Showit but have you thought to export the flash file SWF to MPEG2? then using Nero to burn it as a DVD?

my 0.2 cents

Ciao

export the flash file SWF to MPEG2

Can't be done by any converter I have found. This is a program to transform the show-it to a proshow file. Works very well.

Hi Mango,
Yeah..I went all the route. Wasn't able to find a SWF to MPEG2 converter that did a proper job. Keep coming close, but it was always off. The screen capture was better, but the color would be desaturated or other problem. This Transform program does a direct translation of ShowIt's XML to Proshow Gold. Yeah, you have to buy extra software, but it's the most faithful conversion and ultimately in the end, you have the most control.

-David

http://www.winavi.com/swf-to-avi.htm

SWF frame capture programs - the few that can handle Showit Web shows - are limited by the resolution of your screen, the power of your computer and the quality of the images being animated. Unsurprisingly, the results are usually quite poor.

If anyone would like to ask any questions about ShowTransformer, please use PM or email me.

Cheers.

Mango,
There's tons, and tons of swf to avi, swf to flv, swf to ipod, etc...converters out there. However, the handful that I tried, always had one problem or another. Most of them do not detect the correct size of the original showit web swf to properly render the outputted file. And the problem is, most of these converters are designed to be very easy to use. So because of that, they make a lot of assumption for you so you can't even override their settings via the GUI. Do let us know if you were able to use the convertor you linked to to create a proper movie file that looks as good as the original ShowIt Web.

For me, I like the fact that in ProShow Gold, I could choose the type of output I wanted. From my testing, I found that I like 480x320 MP4 SP/ASP at 1500Kbps bitrate @ 3x2 aspect ratio and no border/frames of any kind. This renders about a 30MB MP4 file for my iPhone. You can certainly choose a lower bitrate, but I like the quality I got at 1500Kbps.

I found that I like MP4 SP/ASP over MP4 AVC (better known as H.264) when outputting for my iPhone.

-David

David,

What ProShow Gold settings have you found to work best for output to a DVD?
The quality is not so good when I use default settings. Images with a close up look great, but full length shots look slightly pixelated and generally unpleasant. I can't figure out why.

Has anyone had the experience of a long horizontal (only 1-2 pixels high, but the entire length) line that reflects the slideshow in their final output? I've only encountered this a few times so I haven't been able to troubleshoot it.

Thanks David Jay for an awesome tool. Thanks 'One Fine Day' for providing this missing link. Thanks OSP for all your great advice!

-B

This is a very long thread, so forgive me if this has already been answered... you've created a software that turns a Show-It show into a Proshow Gold?? Is it for PC or Mac?? Any clue how much proshow will cost me??

Does Showtransformer come with proshow gold or do you have to buy it seperately??

They are separate. Show Transformer allows you to save a showit-web slideshow as a proshow gold file. Then you can edit/refine your work, or just export your show to dvd or digital file via proshow gold. It is a workaround for those who want to spend the time to create their own dvd's and do not want to take advantage of show-it's outsourcing capabilities.

So what's the soloution for mac users??
I really want to use the Show It Web timing options. And I currently make DVD's for clients, I already offer it, but use Fotomagico and it's not cutting it for the timing (and how long it takes me).
Web slide shows are secondary for me. I need to be able to put these on DVD, using IDVD or whatever.