I've been with them for 30 days and have seen some interesting things...

Such as???????


Enquiring minds want to know!

you're such a tease!!

Lets have it:

The Good, The Bad and The Ugly!!!

Here ya, go...

For several years, Pictage has been courting me. I'd get calls and e-mails from an account rep notifying me of the special deals and all the perks they offer. I've always turned them down.

However, a few months ago I decided to "give them a try"

The deal they were offering was a $49 sign-up
2-months free
1-free album

So I pulled the trigger.

I've posted my last 5 events, collected e-mail addresses at the event, handed out event cards (mine not pictages) and even done a few slide shows.

I've been tracking website hits, as well as sales, and the first 30-days are very interesting.


I'm not looking for explanations or reasons, just evaluating them and determinining how they fit with my business, and informing others of my experience.

so have you sold anything? what good is this place if it does not generate online print sales?

It's too soon to tell, but be assured, I am tracking everything.

I've used quickbooks to monitor all my sales for the past few years, and I am able to tell you what the best selling 4x6 was, biggest wedding sale, and all that good stuff.

I know they do their own marketing, and I am trying to follow the system as they promote it, to make this an even test.

Cheers,
Eric

You know something, I think the photographer, the quality of your work, your effort, is what generate sales and not the online gallery. Pictage or Pickpic is just that... a gallery where people go and see your products.

Have you stopped to think that you make sales in DIY because you work at it and not because is an DIY online gallery? Maybe if you have put the same effort in Pictage you may have made the same sales.

An online gallery can help by making an attractive display of your images, but your clients either will buy or won't, regardless if it is Pictage or DIY?

I think some people get confused and Think that Pictage somehow has a magical formula that will sell prints regardless of the quality of your images or your effort selling them. Pictage or any of these systems are there just to facilitate your workflow and reduce your workload.

In my experience, I have sold more in Pictage than when DIY. You know why? I think two main reasons (1) the other products they offer to my clients and (2) because I decided to tryuly work at promoting online sales.

So, I think number two is the main reason why people make sales in the web... they work at it.

The only thing then is what model works best for your business model, for your workflow. DIY is not the answer to all and it can be more costly than outsource it for some.

So, if some sells or not while using Pictage, is not Pictage fault. Pictage can help but it cannot make a sell if you don't do your part. Same thing with DIY.

Thanks everyone! I really appreciate all the input. But I have a couple of questions.

1. Have you used Pictage from the get-go of your business?

2. If not, how has your workflow changed?

3. To what degree has it "freed you up"?

Dude, you are way off base.

I've had an established system in place for a few years, and I get GREAT results with my Photoshelter gallery. But, I'm always open to trying new things myself, not just taking other's words that it works. so I signed on for a few months.

I keep meticulous records, when I send e-mails, when Pictage does, costs of products, fulfilment times, total sales, most popular pictures viewed, and on and on and on.

So If my sales increase or decrease with Pictage, it's because of something Pictage is doing, I know my method works.

I don't think that Pictage is for everyone - every business is different. For myself, fulfilling my own orders takes a lot of time out of my day. Plus, anytime I get small orders it drives me nuts because after considering the time involved, and packaging costs, I really don't end up making much.

I my business, I prefer to have more time to spend on album design as that's where I make a large bulk of my money. Pictage frees up a lot of my time, allowing me to spend more time on the areas of my business that make me greater profits.

I've also found that I do sell quite a bit more with Pictage.....more than enough to make up for the higher print costs and monthly fees that Pictage charges.

For me, it's a good thing considering where my business is currently at. But, when I look back to my earlier years, there was definitely a time where Pictage would NOT have worked in my favor.

1. No. It could be good when you start out if you use their free album design plus can take advantage from the other dopructs they offer.

2. No fundamental change in my workflow. I always corrected my selected images --proofs-- (the ones I upload to Pictage) to printable condition. Pictage can also help you in this because you can select for them to color correct your uploaded images. The only difference between before Pictage and now is that before I uploaded images with lesser resolution and now I have to upload full res images., but the computer does that overnight.

3. Not having to worry about orders or tracking them or making sure that they get to the clients or tracking different products.

Hope this helps you. If you have any question you can PM me.

Reallyl??

I think your "research" is already flawed...

An online gallery just let people browse images. The only effect it can have if it is harder or easier for the client to browse and/or purchase. At that, Pictage is pretty easy.

Now, I see two wrong premises here: (1) it seems that you think that just for being in Pictage your sales will increase (I think that is were most people go wrong.) (2) it seems that your premise entering in this "test" is to try to "prove" that Pictage is not as good as what you have.

Why do you have or need to prove that your system works better? If it works, shoudn't you stick with it ? Pictage is not a magical place.

What you accomplish is to confuse your clients using two systems, specially when they are used to one. So, if your sales decrease you can only blame yourself for confusing clients.

In my experience, my sales have increased while using Pictage for two reasons (1) the other products Pictage offer; (2) It made me work at selling images online.

Sometime I see people goin into Pictage with the same mentallity of the person that goes on a diet and thing that because they drink a diet drnk wll loose weight. But as good as the drink may be, it requires that the person exercise and alter it eating habits. The same is with Pictage or any online gallery, be self-fulfil or outsource.

Like I said, you have no clue.

I incorporate mailings and specials into my regular system. Pictage does claim to increase sales if you follow their method. so I want to see if it is true for my biz.

There is more to sales than just an easy to browse gallery. If you think that is the only thing that drives sales, you've got a lot of learning to do. The "sale" starts even before you meet a client.


Now, I've been at this game for a while, I'm not opposed to trying new things. But before I completely change, I want to do my homework. This is not a Pictage bashing thread. Just a personal evaluation. Maybe others can learn from my research.

Either you are not ready what I wrote or we are not communicating at all.

Where did I say that easy browse is the key to increase sales?

Where did I say is the only thing that drives sales?

I believe I have said exactly the opposite of what you are saying that I said. That tells me that you are nor reading or understanding what I am saying. I believe I said that it is the photographer and not an online gallery who makes the sale.

1. An online gallery help print sales because it gives you a web presence and give the oportunity than more than your client hace access to yhe images. It gives opportunity.
2. A difficult online gallery and a hard to use cart can lower your sales if buyers gets frustrated and leave. So, An easy browsing and ordering experience is important to keep potential buyers from leaving.... thus, in that, and only on that, can help your sales.
3. What Pictage and any otehrs like them offer are tools to help YOU sell more. It offer a varieties of products for which you have nothing to do except set the price. They aim at giving the customer as easiest online experience. Thy are constantly evaluating their methods to see what works and what not.
4. Just because yu have your images in Pictage they won't sell by themself. You have to promote them and you have to do an exception al job as a photographers to induce sales. Yes, I agree that the sale begin from the moment the client meets the photographer.

As I said, one of the greatest mistake some people make is to think that Pictage, or Collage.net or Pickpic, or any other, by themselve will increase sales. They are just tools. Some work better than others, but are just tools. And like any tool, it will depende of the hands that yield the tools as to what kind of result you get.

When I went into Pictage my opinion of them was highly influenced by what is said here in OSP about them. So I was very apprehensive to say the least. As long as I was going to try it I propossed myself to really give it a try. I wanted to learn form their experience as well as others users experiences. And I, like you, was in tehir toes all the time (ask my pro rep). A fellow OSPer taught me that, while others opinions are important, the most important one is your own experience. Specially becasue you don't know all the details of tehir experiences.

If you want to see if Pictage is good for you biz I honestly suggest to make sure you first understand what Pictage is and can do and cannot do. Then give it a fair and honest try. If your mindset is to find fault from the beginning it means that you are not really giving it a try but just looking to demonstrate that is not good. Scepticism is good but it has to be checked by honest inquiry (Hume said that not me.)

Well, it's month #2 and I was just billed for it. I was supposed to get the first three months free. Hmmmmm. Is this any way to treat new customers??

Hi Eric -

Please send me your Pictage studio id to isiegel@pictage.com and I'll investigate what happened.

------------
Ian Siegel
VP Product and Technology
Pictage, Inc.

I think that should tell you something.

Eric,
How about an update for us? I've read your posts and I am still not quite sure what you are telling us. Maybe you haven't told us yet? I am very interested to hear your findings. Pictage has a special offer going on now until the 12th of Oct. and I might just sign up. You stated that the first 30 days were very interesting but did not say why. Please fill me in before I sign up.

My advice... for what is worth... try it for yourself.

You are the only one that can decide if it works for you.

I, like you, came here and heard of this people saying nasty things about Pictage. Some sounded very serious. Other right out scary. I was influenced by those stories... and because I like to always give the benefit of the doubt I thought they had to be true... but in the process I wasn't been true to myself or to Pictage. So, I decided to try it for myself.

My experience... That while Pictage (like any company, not even my own) is not perfect but does work. I, like thousands others, have not experience any of the things a few here (and they are very few) say they have experienced. But I would have never find out the truth if I would have rely in what a few naysayers are saying here.

While there are something I would like to see changed, overall I am very satisfied with what Pictage has to offer and they have helped me make money.

Remember, there are two side to every story. I will not dismiss the alleged negative experience of some here, but I cannot forget that I don't know the Pictage side of the story. How do I know that is not the complainers fault instead of Pictage?

If you read this thread carefully you will see that this "test" has been pre-judged from the beginning with a very definitive agenda. For example, he alleges that he was charged for a month when it should have been free. Automatically he concludes that it was intentionally rather than a mistake. An honest test would have been given the benefit of the doubt... But nit here, not to Pictage. They are the evil empire and these crusaders have to fight the empire.

So, instead of playing this game, compare Pictage and every other product out there for what they are... tools. If hammer "A" works better that hammer "B" for the way you work, just use hammer "B" instead of "A". But, would you start a campaign against hammer "A" just because hammer "B" works better for you? That is what I see some doing here. And that is only confusing and not helping.

So, instead of waiting for others opinions, form your own by your own experience.

I signed up under the same promo, and got the same billing runaround, only I was charged for the first month twice, (wasn't supposed to be at all) and over charged for the second month that was supposed to be free, and charged $51 for my third month, which was supposed to be my first paying month at $49. Nice....
Not to mention, of course, they take my money in the blink of an eye, but it took a bank statement, over 2 HOURS on the phone, and 3 weeks+ to get my money back.

$49 per month? I thought that it was $99 per month for Pictage. Are there other monthly price plans that are not listed on their site?

No, but they appear to run near constant sign up specials. If you inquire about information, they'll keep you up to date on the current special.

Some of them are outstanding....some of them less so. And they will definitely keep pinging you until you either tell them no or sign.

I opted to sign when they sweetened the deal to the point I couldn't resist. So far, no issues with billing, communication, or products....my only real complaint is with turnaround time on prints, as I'm used to Mpix's next day turnaround.

i decided to sign up when they were offering $19 per month for the first 6 months... i figured that would get me through the winter slow season at least.

Yes, I signed up during a promo. However, it seems they will promise you whatever in order to get you to sign up.

As some of you may know, after 5 months I dropped them.

Reasons - Cost and a variety of other things I personally experienced (that I won't talk about over an open forum).

Mostly it was about money. When you start messing with my income, I get a bit upset. Sure it was only nickel and dime stuff but when you add it all up it comes out pretty high! A bit here on the service, some more for an order, a little extra for shipping - you get the picture.

It was supposed to make my life easier, but I felt like I had to keep checking up on them, to make sure I wasn't getting ripped off.

So while I'm sure it works fine for some, for me, not so much.

I'm with Eric on this one... while I do believe Pictage can be great solution for some, it isn't for me. I tend to be fairly picky when it comes to print quality and I am not satisfied leaving that in someone else's hands.

Cost, as Eric said, was another matter. I had a client recently order 13 4x6 prints from an engagement session. Total cost for the order, including shipping and taxes, was just over $150. After shipping ($11), taxes ($10), Pictage's charge for printing those 13 images ($26) and Pictage's commission ($13), the money that wound up in my pocket was $91.

And that's just for one small example. It would have taken me all of 15 minutes to fill that order. I made the right decision going with PickPic.

I am in the middle of waiting on a phone call from a rep to cancel my membership as we speak. I've been with Pictage or almost 2 years, and it's been pretty bumpy. Once I get everything finalized I'm gonna start another post detailing my 2 year experience with Pictage. I will talk about it one time, then I will no longer get involved in Pictage bashing threads because it's fruitless and unproductive.

Yes, it's important to always channel your energies TOWARD where you are going -- not from what you're LEAVING.

Switching online proofing companies is definitely something you don't want to be doing several times a year... for sure. However, documenting your transition in a business-like manner could be a great learning tool for others on the forum.

In our case, we joined Pictage about 3 years ago... and worked through many rough issues including multiple accounting/billing problems and what seemed like a series of never-ending changes in their 2-for-1 print promotion policies. In those 3 years, Pictage always fixed problems that we brought to their attention, but the time required to deal with the issues and then monitor to ensure follow-up was error-free became timely and costly in its own way. And then the mix-ups with 2-for-1 "portrait events" being released that shouldn't have been released proved to be the last straw in terms of recent "deal-breakers".

In the end, we opted to bring order fulfillment back in-house with PickPic, and we use Millers Professional Imaging for nearly all of our print/press products. But we didn't just "pull the plug" on Pictage and switch over to PickPic overnight... we made the transition gradually starting this summer... and our last Pictage event expired just yesterday. I still participate on their forum from time to time, but our account will likely go inactive in the new year. I will surely miss their forum, because honestly their community of photographers is the company's greatest asset. But many are active on this forum as well.

More importantly, we've made the transition between proofing methods as seamless as possible for clients. And since we launched a new website back in August 2007, our online PickPic galleries were linked to that website. The Pictage events were still out there until they expired, but all new activity was posted on our PickPic galleries.

Is order fulfillment glamorous? No. Are there costs to handling credit cards directly? Yes. However, there are ALWAYS hidden costs that nobody every truly quantifies whenever you outsource part of your operation. If you're a one-person show and you're constantly traveling about, then yes... outsourcing your order fulfillment is worth exploring (and hopefully you can avoid the issues mentioned above). But everything in life has trade-offs... and don't let anyone tell you differently. Numbers can be made to support any story that needs to be told, so be sure you know YOUR numbers and where you're spending your time and money.

MOST IMPORTANTLY though, we've brought client communications back in-house as well, because we find it's best to have ONE source for client communications. We now know when clients receive an email about our products, it's an email that WE'VE designed and authorized to be sent -- not something that someone else decided would be a great promotion to send to clients without first checking with the studio (i.e., US).

For our business model, bringing client communications and order fulfillment in-house were HANDS-DOWN the right moves. But we were willing to spend some additional time reviewing our online orders, updating our accounting directly, and then forwarding the orders to Millers for processing. And they've truly been a wonderful lab... to the point where they don't even have holiday deadlines, per se... just the usual terrific and consistent turn-around times that we experience year-round. And with their standard overnight delivery service for studio orders, they truly are a welcome extension to our operation.

Ironically, we joined Pictage because we felt if it worked for some of the big-name photographers, then surely it's worth a try. But like in any endorsement arrangement, the big-name photographers are paid to highlight benefits and spin the story in a convincing way. And in the end, only YOU can determine what works best for YOUR business.

Best of luck... whichever route you choose!

David

Ditto here. I fully agree with everything you said. And even if they are not paid for their endorsement, still does not means that if it works for them it has to work for me. They can be passionately in love with a solution that works for them because it was a well thought out business decision that increase their earnings... for them!

The endorsement should only means that it could be a good solution for me... only if it adjust to my business model in a way that, even if it increases my operational cost some, the earning returns increase as well as the convenience factor is more. But if increases your operational cost and decreases your earning, then is not a good solution.

Then, there are those that rather outsource the work and earn less just because they don't like to do it themselves.

There could be many good reasons against and in favor.

Outsourcing is not the best solution always. You can easily outsource all your earnings, making others rich and yourself poor... just because it is easier for you that others do the work.

But in all instances it should and it is a business decision that should be made logically, rationally, with all the numbers in front of you and without passion.