Two weeks ago, I paid to renew my membership. I had doubts, but felt that maybe the leadership was changing for the better. Then they booted Huy last week for promoting the photographers in his workshop to brides and grooms. I'm honestly shocked that I haven't been booted, considering we have had a referral listing on TTD for 11 months now. The only difference is that we cater to brides who love creative photographers, not just strict photojournalists.

It's obvious that the owner of the WPJA is not putting the best interest of the industry first. For him, the WPJA is a business, and his intent is to eliminate competition. I can understand and appreciate his business drive, but in my opinion, any organization or association for photographers should be putting the industry first- above all.

Several outstanding members have been booted or have made a decision to leave the organization, including Jessica Claire, David Beckstead, Huy, Jose Villa, Katherine Tolentino, Crystal Goss and Sergio just to name a few. The WPJA is no longer the elite organization that it had the potential to be. The value of being a member has decreased rapidly. The Knot brides are even discussing their downfall. Unless David sells it, or decides to let an actual board run it, it will keep going downhill.

Honestly, I think an organization by photographers, for photographers would be much better for the industry. I would love to hear your feedback. Actually, I need to hear your feedback in order to make some very important decisions. I just wrote a little more in lenght at www.dontboxusin.com

Its too bad its not what it should be. By photographers, for photographers, for the industry and its ever changing needs...I think you are on the right track.

Here's my take on the situation and try to relate it to your trash the dress group:

Say someone who was a bigtime member of trash the dress started a different site called "ruin the dress" (sorry, I'm not very creative lol). If they started a referral list similar to trash the dress, wouldn't it seem like that member would be competing with you and potentially diluting your efforts? That's how I interpret David's decision to let Huy go from wpja.

I'm sure Huy had great intentions and it would be awesome if they could work things out and maybe have Huy's foundation workshop work directly with wpja, but I can definitely see where it creates ambiguity. Let's imagine a couple looking for photojournalistic photographers; they find Huy's forum and they find wpja. They're put in a position where they have to decide which group is better and which stands for photojournalism, and are people in Huy's groups somehow better than those in wpja? To me, that dilutes this area of photojournalism, and I think David just wants unity and cohesiveness for wpja. At face value, Huy's forum can come across as being very similar, with a referral network and some Q&A's for couples. I don't know Huy, but I know he's a fanstastic photographer and certain he had great intentions when establishing his new forum, but those little similarities give the impression that it's a separate organization. Anyway, I hope they can work things out. I would actually love it if wpja had some regional workshops where members could come together to learn and improve.

Try it this way instead:

Say you got a letter from PPA today that said because you were a member of WPPI that you could no longer belong to PPA?

Would you feel that was professional, fair, and unbiased?

What if Jack Reznicki (the pres of PPA) was told that because he was affiliated with PPA's management, that he couldn't be a member of WPPI or ASMP?

Professional, fair, and unbiased?

If David Roberts wants WPJA to be a professional *organization* as he keeps insisting, then he needs to work in *cooperation* with other organizations, not play turf wars with every other professional out there and ban people because the advertise with other listing agencies and organizations.

karen

PWPJA.

That's a good point Karen, but one could also interpret the PPA/WPPI relationship as the PPA representing the broad collective of professional photographers and WPPI to represent the smaller group of wedding/portrait folks. However, I guess there is blending between ASMP and NPPA, since media and press are just about one in the same, so I guess that would be a good jumping point for discussion between WPJA and the foundation workshop group (as far as I know people can be members of both those groups).

It's hard for me to take sides, because I really don't know both sides of the story, all I can give is my interpretation based on the facts I've read, but if a member of one organization started another group that is similar to the one he was already in, I can see where there is a conflict of interest. As I said, it would be great if the two could talk things through and work cooperatively, I bet some awesome things could come from that.

Mark,

I'm right with you.

They want me to join for another year and I have not paid the fee yet.
With all the nonesense that has been surrounding the WPJA, I was feeling unsure about whether or not I should continue my listing. Plus, even though 1 wedding pays it off easy, I have not had that much traffic from the WPJA.

Seeing the list of photogs that I admire (including you) helps me to know I am making the right choice by not continuing my membership.

Plus, I'm not a 'strict photojournalist' and with the new stuff I plan on having on my site, I wouldn't be allowed to continue anyway I am sure.

Why join any of those silly groups when you can come here to OSP 24/7?

That's what I am saying!!
Mark, I think you made the right decision.

Organizations shouldn't exclusive - they should be inclusive. And the only person qualified to decide how good a photographer is - is the client.

By that logic, then WPJA represents the broad collective of PJ wedding photographers and Huy's referral program represents the smaller group of those who have completed the Foundation Workshop training.

So reverse it then: Bill Hurter (who is the editor of Rangefinder magazine and a WPPI official) is now kicked out of PPA because he manages a competing organization. The whole industry would be outraged. But some people think it's ok if David Roberts does it.

Karen

I don't mean to sound arrogant, but I don't think anyone can make real honest comments unless they are a member of both sites OR do some serious homework on them. I am a member of both sites. I really have a hard time agreeing why this was done to Huy.

My sentiments exactly.

And how do you know that the people commenting here aren't or haven't?

Karen

touche!

It would appear that membership is no longer about the photography.

That's the perfect way to put it Dan.

My thoughts exactly.

for the record, in my little more than a year, 4 somewhat smaller weddings, several portrait sessions, and lots and lots of stringer work for local papers, not one person has asked me what professional organization for photographers i am a member of.

I am a newbie I admit, and I am still trying to find my direction and nail down many many details, but the only thing i see these organizations doing for the photographer is giving a directory listing.

its like saying, i am a member of the yellow pages.


ive read all the what you gets and i just dont see anything beyond that listing and a possible feeling of 'elitism' for a few months.

am i missing something?



-tg

"I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members." - Groucho Marx

Hearing that great photographers are leaving the WPJA is GREAT news. Its about time!

I think that there should really be an organization for photographers and brides made and run by photographers. There needs to be a place where the best of us are voted in by our peers. It should be a free site to those who are asked to join based on their talents and not because they've paid to get in.

My bride last week, who is NOT a photographer asked me after the wedding:

"So, what's up with WPJA?! Everybody on (bridal forum) says that the owner is crazy! Are there ANY good photographers left paying to be a member?..."

IMHO, if this is the idea that is circulating among Bridal forums, it's no longer good for a photographer's career to join such a company.