WOULD SOMEBODY PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THE SIN WAS?

A stink palm. See the movie Mallrats.

Matt,

I am not there, and you are correct in pointing that out.
But as a believer it is my duty, as written in the scriptures that I hold so dear, to assist other believers in their walk. It is called edification, and all are called to do it.

When Peter (the head of the early church) was acting outside of christian behaviour - Paul did what any strong believer must do and that is he called Peter on his actions and corrected him. Not out of hatred or malice, but out of love for the united body of Christ. Mike and I (and many others who are too fearful to post) felt the call to say "Hey, this is not okay and is not the way a Christian acts." And it is our right to do so.

My comments are not for the unbeliever or athiest, but to those who claim that they do believe in Jeus since that is what this thread is about. A believer who publicly acted as a non-beliver (which we all do) and published it as if it was okay, who is heavily influential in the photographic world where many 'believers' hang their hats. Because of David's status, he is held in higher account in the eyes of the Lord than those who live in seclusion.

It's not different than the "Amber in her underwear" thread - the "Gay weddings" threads - the Purity thread etc.

There is a standard by which men are judged - and that standard is the example of Jesus and how he lived His life and also how the apostles, prophets and saints have lived theirs.

Exhibit A:

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Re:bridge..., August 3 2007, 07:30 PM


Please don't sqeeze the Johnny


Group: Love Cat
Posts: 2039
Member No.: 1262
Joined: 5-May 06




Shane,

I love you as a brother in the Lord.
But my priest & church appointed bible study teacher are the one's who have shared these things that I know with me. I have spent the last 10 years of my (brief) life uncovering these strange occurances in our world.

It is our job as believers to shed light on the darkness in the world, and to show people the truth - regardless of how weird it may be. Any student of the scriptures and the historical church will do that.

And I am called to do just that.

I know you don't understand, and I know that this will make you angry... but you can't understand because you are currently in darkness and do not have the Light of Jesus within you.

Your current state of sinfulness blinds you to the truth.

You may say ,
"who the hell are you to say that!? You don't know me or how I live!"

But the fact remains that in our previous conversations you made it perfectly clear where you stand on certain issues. And those issues are unbreakable according to God's law, God's Holy Word & is also condemned by the same Church that you claim to be a part of. There is only 1 right way, there is only 1 truth. And that is the truth that I stand on when I speak about certain things.

In these last days, the Spirit is moving those who believe, and moving us to be bold. Time is short Shane and I want to see as many people go to heaven as possible. And you may think I am going about it all wrong, but I would like for you to read about the apostles and how they delt with people, how they were moved. Also read about Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Daniel... see how they spoke and were moved. It is the same spirit the moves me.

I know that here on the forum it is hard for you to see me other than a bible thumping whacko... but ask anyone around me, or anyone who knows me or is friends with me. Who I am is so much more than that - and what you read here is only a portion of my personality.

I pray that you will recieve understanding and comfort - but I pray all the more that you will realize the error of your ways (as I did mine 10 yrs. ago and also on a daily basis) and give your life completely to Jesus, who died for us all.

God Bless you my friend.

<><

ps. I know that my views frustrate you. You are free to call me and yell at me if you like. I would much rather hash this out 'live' than in typed words, since you really can't hear the sincerety and calmness in my writing. smile.gif





QUOTE
Johnny, bud.

I didn't want to reply in that thread. I want to appeal to you as a fellow Catholic. Please go talk to your priest about these things before posting it on a public forum. I'm sure your parish would not approve of all this talk of numbers and occult mysticism. For the folks that might know people lost in that tragic accident, it may be hurtful to hear this hocus pocus from a peer and respected colleague.

Shane


--------------------
<>< JOHNNY

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Autograph your work with excellence." ~Anonymous

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2 Thessalonians 3:13


*Wonky avatar created by the talented Julie Steiskal.

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i wanna go home!

The sin was simply acting in a manner that is contrary to how a Christian should act.
I am not trying to beat up DJ - but rather point out that if we are to work on perfection, then we need to work on how we behave in public (posting the vid on the internet) and private (the act itself while at Gary's).

The sin was acting foolishly, or in foolish jesting as is written in Ephesians 5:4
"Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks."

Basically, whenever any of us Christians act in a way that is contrary, we are not setting a good example for proper behaviour. This in turn causes division in the Body of Christ (his Church) and brings about confusion - which is not of God. (1Cor. 14:33)

Whenever I speak a profane word, act in a profane or unholy way (whether public or private) I sin and damage the Church and my witness as a believer in Christ Jesus.
But when I repent and admit my fault and do penance, I repare my relationship with God and am restored in the Church.

Does that make sense, Tami? Or would you like further clarification.
I am trying not to rush my answer, but I have to make a client call right now - please let me know (via pm if you wish) if you would like me to go into further detail.

-Much love everyone.

When the h3ll did that happen!! And who is Jeus anyway?

Sorry Johnny, this has gotten silly, this thread was about a couple fun loving guys having a good time at a party. A happy, good thing. DJ already said he washed his hands before putting his fingers in his mouth (the only REAL concern I can see....). So lets get back to photography... and fun... ;-)

Just my few cents....The video was funny and brought a smile to me and many others when we needed it. Im Catholic and true to my beleifs however, this is a public forum of professional photographers and friends from all walks of life, we really need to respect that.

Just with any internet forum you may find something that may personally offend you but you really need to get past it or don't subscribe. You cant have your cake and eat it to. That can be taken many ways but just needs to be taken. I truly enjoy this forum but I get really uncomfortable when morality is discussed here becasue quite frankly, this is not the place it should be discussed. This is a forum of photographers and friends and just as you would not judge or preach to a friend at a social event, it should not happen in this type of forum unless we change the rules and make it semi private for certain members only. That being said, I think this is a perfect example why personal convictions sholud be kept out of very public forums.

I am just wondering if there is a possibility that this is just an "Interpretational" issue.

DJ and Mike Colon are both Christians. So were lots of people at Gary's wedding. There are lots of Christians on OSP. Yet I don't think the differences in opinions here are divided exactly between believers and non-believers. From what I can gather, a lot of believers find the video to be fun and not offensive.

So I was wondering what would happen if I send the video to 100 Pastor, Priest, etc (spiritual leaders).

Will I get a 100% agreement from all 100 spiritual leaders that the video is offensive? Or will some spiritual leaders find the video to be just two buddies playing prank on each other?

I don't know, and please don't ask me to actually do the survey (I have editing to do ). But my initial guess is that not all 100 spiritual leaders will agree (just as not all 100% of the Christians on OSP agree about whether or not the video is offensive).

We all know that DJ and Mike Colon are both great people and are both strong Christians. So if my assumption (that's all that is, an assumption) is correct that not all spiritual leaders will agree, then perhaps this may not be a "religious" issue. Instead, this may be a "personal feelings" issue regarding whether it's a "tasteful" or "lack-of taste" prank.



-----

Looks to me like a homophobe issue. If Mike Colon had been a girl, this would be a total non-issue. But I've gotten in trouble for pulling the "homophobe" card, so I'll shut up now and run away.

Wrong. If it were some other person who claims to be a Christian (male or female) I know that I would feel the same.


My last response - I've said what needs to be said.
And I don't want anyone thinking I am trying to keep this dispute going.

Blessings

Sarah,
HUH? Not for me. Wrong is wrong, sin is sin, no matter the gender is involved. If this were a girl I would have even *more* of an issue as it would speak to purity between a man and a woman.

-Mike

I love looking at your avatar. I imagine in my minds eye that is how you're speaking in every one of your posts. heheh

is it a man touching another man's butt cheek that is the crime, i mean sin here?

why?

you interpreted it as a sin, which kinda makes me wonder why.


johnny, i really have nothing against you personally, but i have to say, i have never been more glad to be an agnostic than i am right this very minute.

are you tired? because it must be really taxing to have to watch yourself so closely day in and day out - your guidelines are quite stringent, it looks to me as if there is no room for error, else you go to hell.

Not sure if I was indicated here or not... but here's my response:
Websters definition:
zealous: filled with or characterized by zeal : marked by fervent partisanship for a person, a cause, or an ideal <zealous missionaries>

That being the case, I HOPE to be a ZEALOT! Nothing less for my Lord and Savior!

-Mike

Yes it is a sin since it was done in for selfish reasons.
ie. As a joke in order to cause Mike to believe the woman giving the massage was getting fresh with him. It WAS a sexual prank, and therefore is sinful in the eyes of God. And what I saw on the vid was not hand on butt cheek - but rather, fingertips sliding down crack. Either way - eeeeeeewwwww!



I know you don't - and to be honest, I haven't taken anything you've said personally.
I genuinly want to understand why people think this behaviour is okay and I genuinly want everyone to understand why, to a devout Christian, this behaviour is not okay.

And it may seem wierd to hear (read) me say this, but I am glad you feel more grounded in your beliefs. That is the wonderful thing about the Word of God - it polarizes people and makes you choose which road to go. God will be glorified.




Actually, I was more tired when I lived and believed like everyone who disagrees with me in this thread. But no, I am not tired of having to check myself. I do get tired when I witness and usually need to nap afterwords since it takes so much energy to stand up in these last days. My guidlines aren't mine by the way, I did not make them up - I just follow them.

Remember the quote in 1984? Freedom is Slavery & Slavery is Freedom?

I am not a slave to this world but am free (and energized) through Christ Jesus.

Now - I promised I was done, but had to reply one last time to your specifc question Tami.
But I have said enough and will no longer debate this specific issue on the forum.
Feel free to pm me (anyone) if you wish to continue.

Peace to you all

This is precisley the issue. Moral relativism, modern definition(s) of "tolerance", differing "interpretations" all lead to the erosion of a clear defintion (readily available to those that seriouslly seek the truth in His Word) of sin. If you can't say, without hesitation, that this is somthing Jesus would have done, then ask youself if indeed this is something that brings glory and honor to the Creator?

NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS CAN I SEE MY LORD AND SAVIOR INSERTING HIS HAND INTO THE BUTT CHEEKS OF HIS DISCIPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HOW
CAN
I
DO
DIFFERENTLY
AND
STILL
CALL
MYSELF
BY
HIS
NAME????

We need to get serious about how we live out our faith (or not).

Recently I had a pastor hold up His Bible and say this,
"Either what this says is true, or being a Christian is a tremendous waste of time"

I would add, "Either we LIVE what THIS BOOK says, or we are wasting our time at PLAYING Christianity".

Do you honestly think that the Creator of the Universe, after giving up His one and Only Son to die for our sakes would accept less?

*Drops his head and walks away in sorrow*

Then why not address that person specifically in an email or private message? For those of us who're kindof on the fence, things like this push us further away instead of closer. Coming from someone who wants to believe but has a hard time with it - it just makes me want to run the other way. So, while you're succeding in giving DJ the e-spanking you think he deserves you're pushing some people completely away from Christianity. Some things are just better dealt with privately, don't you think?

THAT is one of the most God-following statements on this thread so far.

actually, waht they are saying, in reality, is everyone who thought it was funny, is a sinner and will go to hell.

+Infinity

DJ was reprimanded himself for not taking something private when he called someone out. Now pretty much the same group want to call him out publicly. lol WOW.



If everyone who's funny & sinning ends up in hell, at least it'll be one hell of a party (Christian right - don't yell at me - it's a joke...wait..ok feel free to yell at me....)

You're right. Moral relativism sucks. And it's not "the truth." But last I remember, WE are human. Humans are fallible. Between two people who pray, seek spiritual guidance, and interpret the Bible (because let's face it, there's no situation like this in the Bible, so there's at least some interpolation going on), what makes one person's interpretation valid over the other's if they're both seeking the will of God, both love Jesus, and yet come to different conclusions? It's just hokey, in my opinion, to believe that one person is infallible and somehow more qualified to interpret the word of God over any other person.

Ever heard the expression about honey and flies and such. I know some people think that scaring others is the way to God, and that may work very well for a select few, but my experience is that people often find God through his love, not his wrath.

Flies in honey? Where is THAT in the Bible? No, I saw Jesus address sin head on, then say" Go and sin no more" Time and again!
1) Woman at the well? Jesus said to her, "You are right when you say you have no husband. The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true."
2) Woman caught in adultery... Ignore her adultery? No, "And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn you: go, and sin no more."

People first and formost need convicted of their sin... that is the job of the Holy Spirit. But I need to be open to the leading og the Holy Spirit in the correction and exortation of a brother and sister in Christ.I take that seriously...-Mike

LOLOLOLOLOL!

Oh MAN! Perhaps that was nervous laughter?? I don't know, but I thought it incredibly funny!

thou shall not tell a lie.......

Okay listen up all you (people)

I am a Catholic (so, what?). I attend church regularly (so, what?). I believe that God created us to know, love and serve Him (so, what?).

I am here on OSP because I am a photographer -- not because of what my faith is or because I feel the need to spread the Gospel (Canon is best (so, what?)).

Let's please try to keep the forum photography based. Churches have rules about photography that we are asked to follow. Most of us, thankfully, respect those rules. Let's not ruin a great photo forum or tear down any of those great things that we have in common...i.e. our passion for making beautiful images by trying to preach to those who have different opinions.

I could quote a bunch of scripture here...but I respect that this is not a biblical forum...it is MANIFESTLY a photography forum. And that's what brings us all together.

So, please...if you have more to say about your beliefs and how they are different from someone else's (non-photography, mind you)...please, please, please do it OFFLINE. I don't want to see God good people driven away from the best photo forum on the internet.

Thank you.

And God bless OSP.

i'm sorry, but this has just put me in a really wierd mood. i'm homesick in the worse way. and this thread has really cheered me up for some wierd strange sick reason.

Oh there really is a god! Oops... I mean that's great news Nate!! Looks like I'm going to have a few more occasions to wear my custom fit Stormtrooper uniform!!

NIIIIIIICE armor!

I am a Christian. I thought the video was extremely funny. It was a joke. Whatever. I know the conversation is over, but still wanted to add my 1/2 a cent.
xo to all
~A

+10000

ROTFL! Seriously. I am disrupting the peace over here!

well.... he did make a promise, then go back on it... didnt he?

At this point in the game I am getting lost over who said what and when. All I know is that your response, so simple and kind of serious looking and in Biblical language , but SOOOO funny at the same time just totally got to me. I was laughing so loud. In fact, I know that if I scroll up right now, I will start laughing again!
I am pretty sure I am not making any sense right now, but thanks for the lightness added to this thread and to my day!

Personally I don't know Johnny or Mike but it does appear that they have very different beliefs and live out their faith quite differently than Colon and I do.

I hope to always be someone who focuses on loving other people and I invite all of you to call me out if you ever see me building a pulpit and playing god.

Time to move on.