Okay, so we just put a Brian Adams song on our site w/out permission. Does anyone know the legality of this. How do I go about getting permission to use a song on our site? Also, does anyone know of anywhere online where you can find uncopyrighted music to use for stuff?
Or how bout just good slideshow music. Some of my favorites for slideshows are anything off of the "Day Without Rain" album by Enya. I LOVE anything by Jim Brickman (pianist), and we've been playing Jack Johnson's "Better Together" off of the "In Between Dreams" album,
Full Version: uncopyrighted music anybody
We're gonna have some royalty free music available soon! 
Hold out because we have some good stuff comin!
Hold out because we have some good stuff comin!
Can't Wait DJ
this is an issue I have been going back and forth with as I move forward with the launch of our new site. I have looked everywhere and there are many different opinions on the matter. DJ, when do you see your roality free section coming on?
The issue is that if you contact a music company I would be surprised if you received a response. Some will put links on the site so that you can buy the song so that the artist has a way of making a profit as well. Is this enough to cover our end?
I read an article yeterday that used a retail store as an example. Many will play a CD that they brought in to work and play it for the cust. to hear. Yet no one would second guess this. Are our photography websites similar to a "retail" environment in that the music is played for potential clients. Many retail chains will only play a certain type of music as it has been shown to create an upbeat buying mood. Many will argue that this could assist in the viewing of the images and aid in booking clients.
My other side of thinking is that if I saw my images on a CD cover at Best Buy that, as cool as it is, I would be a bit upset if I was not asked....
So I have no idea where I am at....
The issue is that if you contact a music company I would be surprised if you received a response. Some will put links on the site so that you can buy the song so that the artist has a way of making a profit as well. Is this enough to cover our end?
I read an article yeterday that used a retail store as an example. Many will play a CD that they brought in to work and play it for the cust. to hear. Yet no one would second guess this. Are our photography websites similar to a "retail" environment in that the music is played for potential clients. Many retail chains will only play a certain type of music as it has been shown to create an upbeat buying mood. Many will argue that this could assist in the viewing of the images and aid in booking clients.
My other side of thinking is that if I saw my images on a CD cover at Best Buy that, as cool as it is, I would be a bit upset if I was not asked....
So I have no idea where I am at....
i am in the wedding videography business and we have learned it is definately a copyright issue when you use music off of a cd that you didn't pay the rights to use. the piano brothers have some nice pieces you can purchase and then put on your web site. i request all music from my clients on an original cd. i think that as long as they made the purchase the artists is still making money. the wedding videos are for private home use.
it's still a toss up but if i were to put music on a web site i would have to use some that i had a license for.
good luck,
judy
it's still a toss up but if i were to put music on a web site i would have to use some that i had a license for.
good luck,
judy
QUOTE(JasonAng @ September 11 2005, 11:40 AM)
I read an article yeterday that used a retail store as an example. Many will play a CD that they brought in to work and play it for the cust. to hear. Yet no one would second guess this. Are our photography websites similar to a "retail" environment in that the music is played for potential clients. Many retail chains will only play a certain type of music as it has been shown to create an upbeat buying mood. Many will argue that this could assist in the viewing of the images and aid in booking clients.[right][snapback]15172[/snapback][/right]
[I'll preface this by writing that I'm not a Lawyer, and I even try to avoid them if I can. This is how it's been explained to me.]
This, too, is not legal. Neither is playing the radio (broadcast) in a retail shop where customers can hear it. This is the reason Muzak is in business. You pay for Muzak (or another pay-for-music company) and in the cost is the license to ASCAP, BMI, and a few others. This also applies to playing background music during a portrait session. Now, many retail stores do, in fact, pay the royalties. so do dance studios.
The short of it is that unless you pay royalties to ASCAP and BMI (and the others), you cannot use commercial music to "sell" (or enhance) your product. Now, with that said, most folks could (and do) get away with it. It's just whether you can live with yourself for not "playing by the rules."
Yes, the DJs at the weddings pay the royalties (or, at least, they're supposed to).
I find it strange that in a business that relies on usage rights and licenses, photographers often think nothing of using commercial music in their product. Obviously, everyone here thinks twice about it, and whatever decision you come up with is what you do.
That is the direction I am heading. Unless I start hanging out with Dave Mathews I do not see me using any song for our site that is not roality free. As an artist I think that it is right thing to do, however the odds of getting caught are slim. I do think that at some point BMI and other companies will begin to take notice as more and more photogs use various artists with out written permission. At that point that may start looking to this industry for law suits. I think that those who take additional steps, such as allowing the viewer to purchace a song or album from itunes or amazon will fair much better as it shows good faith.
Though I don't have music on my web-site yet, I have used royalty free music from "The Music Bakery" for slideshows and videography. "Royalty free" is not to be confused with "totally free," but the Music Bakery has some of their legacy discs starting out at $69. As soon as I have my flash site done I'll probably use something from the Music Bakery's collection.
Their URL is www.musicbakery.com
DJ -- I do look forward to seeing RF music options on OSP.
Their URL is www.musicbakery.com
DJ -- I do look forward to seeing RF music options on OSP.
Yes, I would assert the ill-legality of this whole thing. It IS illegal for anyone to use music on the web (or for just about any other medium) without paying royalties for it. Hence "royalty-free" music. Even to put a link to buy the artists music is not enough. You are still playing their music without paying for it. There are "streaming fees" for online music used with permission from an artist....where the music was not purchased as "royalty-free" These can be as much as .08 Cents a pop (for each click on your site)...which would get really pricey!
For more info check out harryfox.com
For a healthy alternative...I'll write and record (and sell you) royalty-free music exclusively for your use and written specifically for website.
Dan
For more info check out harryfox.com
For a healthy alternative...I'll write and record (and sell you) royalty-free music exclusively for your use and written specifically for website.
Dan
Here is another list of things that are illegal in this country:
-----------------------------
Arizona
In Tucson, it is illegal for women to wear pants.
In Globe, it is illegal to play cards in the street with a Native American.
In Glendale, it is illegal to drive a car in reverse.
In Nogales, it is illegal to wear suspenders.
New Mexico
In Raton, it is illegal for a woman to ride horseback down a public street with a kimono on.
The Merriam-Webster Collegiate Dictionary is banned in Carlsbad.
wearing a hat to a party where dancing is taking place.
It is illegal to lie down and fall asleep with your shoes on.
It is illegal to serve beer and pretzels at the same time in any bar, club, or restaurant.
Oklahoma
People who make ugly faces at dogs may be fined and/or jailed.
In Schuster, it is illegal for a woman to gamble while wearing a towel.
Texas
It is illegal for children to have unusual haircuts.
A recently passed anti-crime laws requires criminals to give their victims 24 hours notice, either orally or in writing, and explain to the nature of the crime about to be committed.
It is illegal to milk another person's cow.
In El Paso, churches, hotels, halls of assembly, stores, markets, banking rooms, railroad depots, and saloons are required to have spittoons on hand.
In Houston, it is illegal to sell Limburger cheese on Sunday.
The entire Encyclopedia Britannica is banned in Texas because it contains a formula for making beer at home.
------------------------------------------
My opinion is that we are NOT hurting the artists or the label by using a small portion of one song on the web. We are actually helping them! There is a HUGE difference between what we're doing and what the punks on Kazaa, Limewire or other file sharing programs are doing. They are distributing the music which does hurt the artists and the labels and is morally wrong.
I heard somebody else make the analogy of a coffee shop playing artists music to enhance their customers experience and all though it's not a perfectly parallel example I think we do need to realize that there is a difference between people helping promote the artist and people hurting the artist.
Hey Dan, how would you feel if I put a small piece of one of your songs up on my site as well as purchasing information and guaranteed you that 1000+ people per week would hear your music and some of them would purchase it and I wouldn't charge you anything for that publicity? It's a little different way of thinking about it but I think if these labels are smart they'll see that we're actually helping them.
Dan's music is great and you can check it out at TrueToneProductions.com or on a bunch of other photographers sites who have already had great success using him.
-----------------------------
Arizona
In Tucson, it is illegal for women to wear pants.
In Globe, it is illegal to play cards in the street with a Native American.
In Glendale, it is illegal to drive a car in reverse.
In Nogales, it is illegal to wear suspenders.
New Mexico
In Raton, it is illegal for a woman to ride horseback down a public street with a kimono on.
The Merriam-Webster Collegiate Dictionary is banned in Carlsbad.
wearing a hat to a party where dancing is taking place.
It is illegal to lie down and fall asleep with your shoes on.
It is illegal to serve beer and pretzels at the same time in any bar, club, or restaurant.
Oklahoma
People who make ugly faces at dogs may be fined and/or jailed.
In Schuster, it is illegal for a woman to gamble while wearing a towel.
Texas
It is illegal for children to have unusual haircuts.
A recently passed anti-crime laws requires criminals to give their victims 24 hours notice, either orally or in writing, and explain to the nature of the crime about to be committed.
It is illegal to milk another person's cow.
In El Paso, churches, hotels, halls of assembly, stores, markets, banking rooms, railroad depots, and saloons are required to have spittoons on hand.
In Houston, it is illegal to sell Limburger cheese on Sunday.
The entire Encyclopedia Britannica is banned in Texas because it contains a formula for making beer at home.
------------------------------------------
My opinion is that we are NOT hurting the artists or the label by using a small portion of one song on the web. We are actually helping them! There is a HUGE difference between what we're doing and what the punks on Kazaa, Limewire or other file sharing programs are doing. They are distributing the music which does hurt the artists and the labels and is morally wrong.
I heard somebody else make the analogy of a coffee shop playing artists music to enhance their customers experience and all though it's not a perfectly parallel example I think we do need to realize that there is a difference between people helping promote the artist and people hurting the artist.
Hey Dan, how would you feel if I put a small piece of one of your songs up on my site as well as purchasing information and guaranteed you that 1000+ people per week would hear your music and some of them would purchase it and I wouldn't charge you anything for that publicity? It's a little different way of thinking about it but I think if these labels are smart they'll see that we're actually helping them.
Dan's music is great and you can check it out at TrueToneProductions.com or on a bunch of other photographers sites who have already had great success using him.
One more for the list DJ started....
In my hickville hometown of Klamath Falls in Southern Oregon, it's illegal to kick the heads off of snakes. Since that's outlawed we turned to cowtipping for fun in high school. (dare I admit these things?)
Kevin
In my hickville hometown of Klamath Falls in Southern Oregon, it's illegal to kick the heads off of snakes. Since that's outlawed we turned to cowtipping for fun in high school. (dare I admit these things?)
Kevin
DJ, interesting perspective - definitely has me thinking!
What would you say, though, if one of your clients was smart enough to ask you why you could use someone else's copyrighted material in your business venture (i.e. you are ultimately making money with the music), but they couldn't use your images as they wanted?
We want our clientele to respect (and pay) for our work, so I think it would only be fair to do the same for other artists out there!
No harm meant, just a thought....
What would you say, though, if one of your clients was smart enough to ask you why you could use someone else's copyrighted material in your business venture (i.e. you are ultimately making money with the music), but they couldn't use your images as they wanted?
We want our clientele to respect (and pay) for our work, so I think it would only be fair to do the same for other artists out there!
No harm meant, just a thought....
(Because I know you care, in North Carolina, it's illegal to have sex on the floor 
)
I like the coffee shop example, but I wonder if our clients could say the same thing... i.e. I just had this image scanned and used for our invitation, program, t-shirt, whatever.... because I knew you'd love the free advertising.
Would that be okay with you??? Again, just surmising...
)I like the coffee shop example, but I wonder if our clients could say the same thing... i.e. I just had this image scanned and used for our invitation, program, t-shirt, whatever.... because I knew you'd love the free advertising.
Would that be okay with you??? Again, just surmising...
By the way, www.musicbakery.com is a good site to go to - we actually are using one of their songs now on our website!
I am definitely looking forward to royalty-free music on OSP, as MusicBakery doesn't have a lot of "cool" music....
I am definitely looking forward to royalty-free music on OSP, as MusicBakery doesn't have a lot of "cool" music....
QUOTE(Nikon Geek @ September 15 2005, 06:53 AM)
What would you say, though, if one of your clients was smart enough to ask you why you could use someone else's copyrighted material in your business venture (i.e. you are ultimately making money with the music), but they couldn't use your images as they wanted?
We want our clientele to respect (and pay) for our work, so I think it would only be fair to do the same for other artists out there!
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I love these debates - so fun! We want our clientele to respect (and pay) for our work, so I think it would only be fair to do the same for other artists out there!
[right][snapback]15703[/snapback][/right]
If somebody wants to put low res copies of my work on a website along with purchasing information and can guarantee me that my pictures are going to be seen by 1000's of people every month and purchased by some of those without me having to do anything I would take them to dinner! Especially if they're cute! QUOTE(nikon geekette @ September 15 2005, 07:38 AM)
(Because I know you care, in North Carolina, it's illegal to have sex on the floor )
Bummer! I won't live there after I get married! )QUOTE(nikon geekette @ September 15 2005, 07:38 AM)
I like the coffee shop example, but I wonder if our clients could say the same thing... i.e. I just had this image scanned and used for our invitation, program, t-shirt, whatever.... because I knew you'd love the free advertising.
Would that be okay with you??? Again, just surmising...
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Actually... Would that be okay with you??? Again, just surmising...
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... Nathan...do you remember the wedding you shot with me...what was the first thing the couple showed us on the wedding day - their program! 200+ prints of my picture...it happens every week with no photo credit or anything....it actually happens more than that because most of my couples send out Save the Date cards and wedding invitations with my pictures in them. I had one bride who sent me a digital copy of her Save the Date card and it had a photo credit on the front and I told her to remove it b/c it looked tacky to have my name on the front of her wedding card. I do love the free advertising even if they're not putting my name on stuff and being cool with your couples goes a long way!
Just to pipe in with my own 2 cents.
I just created a new blog and there are TONS of people hitting this blog each day now (I believe more than 2,000 unique hits yesterday alone) and I've had several people comment and email me saying they would like to use the pictures for the background on their computer and possibly to hang on their wall in their house. They were wondering if I'd be upset if this happened. My quick and immediate reply was that I would be humbled that they would want to do this, and that of course they could use them for that stuff no problem.
To me, it's flattering, and as DJ has mentioned, great exposure. Now they tell all of their friends about me and my blog. My blog will soon have a link to a pictage event with all of these pictures in their full-quality for sale, and my blog also has a link to my website.
Since all these people started visiting my blog I have already run out of bandwidth on my website/server because of how much traffic it has generated for me. I welcome these people to use my pictures, I think it's awesome, and I also know that there will be a group of people in there who will be interested in paying full-price to buy my pictures.
There will always be those who will "steal" your pictures. Now it's our job to think of ways to offer them something with enough value to curb the stealing toward purchases or exposure in our favor....
I just created a new blog and there are TONS of people hitting this blog each day now (I believe more than 2,000 unique hits yesterday alone) and I've had several people comment and email me saying they would like to use the pictures for the background on their computer and possibly to hang on their wall in their house. They were wondering if I'd be upset if this happened. My quick and immediate reply was that I would be humbled that they would want to do this, and that of course they could use them for that stuff no problem.
To me, it's flattering, and as DJ has mentioned, great exposure. Now they tell all of their friends about me and my blog. My blog will soon have a link to a pictage event with all of these pictures in their full-quality for sale, and my blog also has a link to my website.
Since all these people started visiting my blog I have already run out of bandwidth on my website/server because of how much traffic it has generated for me. I welcome these people to use my pictures, I think it's awesome, and I also know that there will be a group of people in there who will be interested in paying full-price to buy my pictures.
There will always be those who will "steal" your pictures. Now it's our job to think of ways to offer them something with enough value to curb the stealing toward purchases or exposure in our favor....
QUOTE(Tim Halberg @ September 15 2005, 02:14 PM)
There will always be those who will "steal" your pictures. Now it's our job to think of ways to offer them something with enough value to curb the stealing toward purchases or exposure in our favor....
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Love that Tim!!! Great stuff!
Posts are dissappearing on this thread 
Dan just had some great points posted up... and they are totally gone 
Dan just had some great points posted up... and they are totally gone
QUOTE(davidjay @ September 15 2005, 09:53 AM)
I love these debates - so fun! If somebody wants to put low res copies of my work on a website along with purchasing information and can guarantee me that my pictures are going to be seen by 1000's of people every month and purchased by some of those without me having to do anything I would take them to dinner! Especially if they're cute!
[right][snapback]15728[/snapback][/right]
If somebody wants to put low res copies of my work on a website along with purchasing information and can guarantee me that my pictures are going to be seen by 1000's of people every month and purchased by some of those without me having to do anything I would take them to dinner! Especially if they're cute! [right][snapback]15728[/snapback][/right]
Hey, if you can guarantee people purchasing, then count me in too!
DJ...I think that's great you are generous with your advertising...and generous with your business...
but I think the music thing is different. your clients are already paying for your services. But with the music there is nothing paid...there is a HUGE portion of income to artists from music licensing. With the web being more and more a marketplace, artists (like, say, an up and coming Christian artist) will never make it unless they are properly paid for their work....and although putting a link might help facilitate this, it doesn't necessarily do the deed. (if you think a link is enough...what if people don't like your pictures (not sure that would happen too often, ha ha)...does that color whether they like the music and want to buy it? or vice versa?) You can't guarantee sales of the music you put on your site...
Every artist deserves credit for what they've done. Even if they are a rockstar and are filthy rich. they made great art (obviously, if you want to use it) and it is right that they get credit/paid for what they've done.
I don't make the laws...
I mean no harm...just want to keep the debate going!
dan
yeah...I'm editing as I go...
you people just post so fast!
ha ha.
dan
you people just post so fast!
ha ha.
dan
QUOTE(Tim Halberg @ September 15 2005, 10:14 AM)
There will always be those who will "steal" your pictures. Now it's our job to think of ways to offer them something with enough value to curb the stealing toward purchases or exposure in our favor....
[right][snapback]15733[/snapback][/right]
ahh...so it is stealing...
and thats wrong right?
...to offer something so good that people won't take it for free if they think they can get away with it...I've got to see this!
dan
QUOTE(bosdanny @ September 15 2005, 02:36 PM)
ahh...so it is stealing...
...to offer something so good that people won't take it for free if they think they can get away with it...I've got to see this!
dan
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...to offer something so good that people won't take it for free if they think they can get away with it...I've got to see this!
dan
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It does sound funny when you put it that way, but I think that the idea that Tim presented is still a good one... There will always be a way around the safeguards that people put up to protect their images, and people will try to use your images without paying you, and you could spend your whole life trying to stop those people.... But, rather than wasting time on those few, spend your time marketing to those that will spend money ( and lots of it) with you, and your won't really have to worry about those few "bad guys."
QUOTE(davidjay @ September 15 2005, 01:53 PM)
I love these debates - so fun! If somebody wants to put low res copies of my work on a website along with purchasing information and can guarantee me that my pictures are going to be seen by 1000's of people every month and purchased by some of those without me having to do anything I would take them to dinner! Especially if they're cute!
[right][snapback]15728[/snapback][/right]
If somebody wants to put low res copies of my work on a website along with purchasing information and can guarantee me that my pictures are going to be seen by 1000's of people every month and purchased by some of those without me having to do anything I would take them to dinner! Especially if they're cute! [right][snapback]15728[/snapback][/right]
So you ok with a porn site posting your photos?
Just to keep the debate going....I would suggest if you REALLY want to help the artist....pay the royalty fee!
8 cents a click! Thousands of people a day....Trust me, this would help the artist MUCH more than providing a link to their website. I think people seem to be making the argument that there is no way to do this legally, so I'll just help them as much as I can by providing a link.
There IS a way to do it legally! Send your 8 cents a hit over to them! This is the easy solution!
(sorry for the sarcasm.
I'm just keeping the debate alive....)
Are you serious? (directed to Jim) Debates are great, but let's be logical!
Debates are great, but let's be logical!
QUOTE(JimCook @ September 15 2005, 10:50 AM)
So you ok with a porn site posting your photos?
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DJ's stuff wouldn't really fit into the "porn" catagory....
Or at least I haven't seen that part of his site!
QUOTE(Nikon Geek @ September 15 2005, 02:53 PM)
Are you serious? (directed to Jim) Debates are great, but let's be logical!
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Debates are great, but let's be logical! [right][snapback]15752[/snapback][/right]
Let me clarify -- guess my response was a little terse and extreme. What I was getting to, is that I am sure that there are sites that would love to use David's awesome photos that are not places that David would want his photos being shown. I picked a porn site reference to go to the extreme. What if the site had a moral (or even a political) slant that wasn't congruent with David's beliefs. I would think he would not want his pictures used to their benefit.
okay okay...I've been reading and trying to stay quiet, but here's 2 more cents for everyone (maybe 5...sorry).
Ultimately, law is law and we're all subject to it. But with many things, human nature is to find a way to get around it while feeling comfortable about it. Hmmm...Val Kilmer has a line in the movie Tombstone about hipocricy...can anyone help me remember?
I would think that another artist using my work to advertise their own (and the other way around), could potentially help each others businesses. But there are two important qualifiers for me (I think of the artists work as a product):
1) they must be non-competing businesses
2) neither party can profit on direct sale of each others products or can use the product for its primary use without buying it from me (i.e. downloading a non-watermarked proof from pictage by right clicking, printing it for an album,and not actually paying for it).
For example, I don't sell tuxes, so any money made by someone using those photos to promote thier tuxes wouldn't bother me. If I wanted to license my photos to get something everytime they're used...I've now entered the 'stock photography' business which I don't think many of us are primarily interested in. So I'm willing to just let it go when this happens as I benefit more by potential referrals and it doesn't violate qualifier one or two.
Alisha had someone use an image and claimed it as her own in order to start her wedding photography business. This clearly breaks qualifier one, and if she sells that photo it would break qualifier two.
Kevin
Ultimately, law is law and we're all subject to it. But with many things, human nature is to find a way to get around it while feeling comfortable about it. Hmmm...Val Kilmer has a line in the movie Tombstone about hipocricy...can anyone help me remember?
I would think that another artist using my work to advertise their own (and the other way around), could potentially help each others businesses. But there are two important qualifiers for me (I think of the artists work as a product):
1) they must be non-competing businesses
2) neither party can profit on direct sale of each others products or can use the product for its primary use without buying it from me (i.e. downloading a non-watermarked proof from pictage by right clicking, printing it for an album,and not actually paying for it).
For example, I don't sell tuxes, so any money made by someone using those photos to promote thier tuxes wouldn't bother me. If I wanted to license my photos to get something everytime they're used...I've now entered the 'stock photography' business which I don't think many of us are primarily interested in. So I'm willing to just let it go when this happens as I benefit more by potential referrals and it doesn't violate qualifier one or two.
Alisha had someone use an image and claimed it as her own in order to start her wedding photography business. This clearly breaks qualifier one, and if she sells that photo it would break qualifier two.
Kevin
I swear I didn't delete any posts! So Dan must've removed'em... I love talking about this stuff and I don't expect everyone to agree...keep up the good debate! I love it!
QUOTE(JimCook @ September 15 2005, 12:04 PM)
Let me clarify -- guess my response was a little terse and extreme. What I was getting to, is that I am sure that there are sites that would love to use David's awesome photos that are not places that David would want his photos being shown. I picked a porn site reference to go to the extreme. What if the site had a moral (or even a political) slant that wasn't congruent with David's beliefs. I would think he would not want his pictures used to their benefit.
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I totally agree Jim!
Funny example but a good thing to bring up. Hopefully my pics would help class up a pathetic site like that....just for the record I would never allow that.This is one reason why I picked artists who's beliefs are very similar to mine and another reason why I wanted to complete the site before presenting it to them. This way they could see, read, and hear who I am, what I believe and how I will be presenting the small portion of one of their songs.
Also, I'm glad to kick them some money but they never respond to my emails.
Great points Kevin!
QUOTE(nikon geekette @ September 15 2005, 06:38 AM)
(Because I know you care, in North Carolina, it's illegal to have sex on the floor )
)It's a good thing we don't live in NC, eh?
I deleted a post that quickly became irrelevant due to some prior posts by you guys...
DJ didn't delete anything.
BTW. DJ...you could call Joy's management at 615.627.0444 and ask what you need to do to put her music on your site? that could clear up all this debate...
maybe they would be completely fine with it...
also, just so you know I really think its great of you to put a link to iTunes and stuff...i think its a great idea and brilliant marketing for her...
peace,
dan
DJ didn't delete anything.
BTW. DJ...you could call Joy's management at 615.627.0444 and ask what you need to do to put her music on your site? that could clear up all this debate...
maybe they would be completely fine with it...
also, just so you know I really think its great of you to put a link to iTunes and stuff...i think its a great idea and brilliant marketing for her...
peace,
dan
QUOTE(Musicmanchris @ September 15 2005, 11:53 AM)
I would suggest if you REALLY want to help the artist....pay the royalty fee! 8 cents a click! Thousands of people a day....Trust me, this would help the artist MUCH more than providing a link to their website.
I disagree...and nobody getting thousands of clicks per day would be dumb enough to pay that much...and with all do respect I think that's the way an artist would think if they were only thinking short term. In the long run, especially for a new artist, the exposure is much more valuable... 8 cents a click! Thousands of people a day....Trust me, this would help the artist MUCH more than providing a link to their website. QUOTE(Musicmanchris @ September 15 2005, 11:53 AM)
I think people seem to be making the argument that there is no way to do this legally, so I'll just help them as much as I can by providing a link.
I don't see a link? QUOTE(Musicmanchris @ September 15 2005, 11:53 AM)
There IS a way to do it legally! Send your 8 cents a hit over to them! This is the easy solution!
What does 8 cents have to do with anything and who decided that. Does that mean that I pay 8 cents to have a song from a small Christian artist with maybe 100,000 people even knowing who he/she is and 8 cents to Bono for having a U2 song on my site....do you see what I mean. Those numbers just don't work because the value isn't in the number or in the dollars it's in the name which is created by exposure. Again, I'm glad to pay but there really isn't a system set up for this (yet) hopefully it'll come about in the future...but I don't think it's worth their time to set it up because they know it's not about the money and we're not hurting their sales.iTunes started a fair approach to music sales by selling songs PER SONG and not allowing these labels to basically sell one song for 18 bucks by forcing us to buy the whole CD...hopefully the same thing will happen with online use.
QUOTE(bosdanny @ September 15 2005, 02:12 PM)
DJ didn't delete anything.
BTW. DJ...you could call Joy's management at 615.627.0444 and ask what you need to do to put her music on your site? that could clear up all this debate...
maybe they would be completely fine with it...
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Thanks man... Ms. Barlow sent me some info as well and I've already sent her an email through Jadon Lavik who's another rock start Christian artist and actually went to Westmont with me. I think one of his songs is #1 on the charts right now so be sure to check it out.BTW. DJ...you could call Joy's management at 615.627.0444 and ask what you need to do to put her music on your site? that could clear up all this debate...
maybe they would be completely fine with it...
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Not that I would rest my argument on this (and this is I guess me just being sarcastic...), but a quick point on the legal/illegal part and let's just obey the laws part...
Does anyone here speed when driving?
On another note, I know that DJ has actually tried to contact companies to see about either paying them for the use of their artist's music on his site or getting permission to simply use it and his requests I know have fallen on deaf ears on more than one occassion.
Does anyone here speed when driving?
On another note, I know that DJ has actually tried to contact companies to see about either paying them for the use of their artist's music on his site or getting permission to simply use it and his requests I know have fallen on deaf ears on more than one occassion.
Great debate!!!! I am going with a music bakery song song for now....I see pros and cons for all sides of this
btw it is illegale to have intercourse with a porcipine in Florida...who would have thought?
btw it is illegale to have intercourse with a porcipine in Florida...who would have thought?
QUOTE(Tim Halberg @ September 15 2005, 05:35 PM)
....getting permission to simply use it and his requests I know have fallen on deaf ears on more than one occassion.
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Ditto here.
I've had to produce some big events during which music is used in presentations and also marketing materials used online or in-person that include music. There are a zillion organizations (like ASCAP, BMI, SESAC) out there trying to regulate this stuff...
...but when it comes down to it and you try to do the right thing and pay the usage rights they make it impossible, don't return calls or e-mails, and redirect you to another org that redirects you bact to the original one.
I say do now and apologize/pay later in this scenario. It just doesn't seem to work the other way around. Hasn't for me at least and I've tried on about six different occassions.
QUOTE(Tim Halberg @ September 15 2005, 01:35 PM)
Not that I would rest my argument on this (and this is I guess me just being sarcastic...), but a quick point on the legal/illegal part and let's just obey the laws part...
Does anyone here speed when driving?
On another note, I know that DJ has actually tried to contact companies to see about either paying them for the use of their artist's music on his site or getting permission to simply use it and his requests I know have fallen on deaf ears on more than one occassion.
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Does anyone here speed when driving?
On another note, I know that DJ has actually tried to contact companies to see about either paying them for the use of their artist's music on his site or getting permission to simply use it and his requests I know have fallen on deaf ears on more than one occassion.
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I guess my deal is less about obeying the laws, and more about not cheating people... There are obviously lots and lots of ridiculous laws (i have a cute little bathroom book chock full of them
) but when it comes to taking something from someone without their permission... I have problems with that.But... that being said... I hope someone David ultimately does get a response from these guys... because it would set a great precedent for the rest of us to have decent music on our websites... and i LOVE the music currently on his site...
But as it stands... I think we can try to justify all day long... and it's still cheating/stealing to use someones art for your gain without their permission...
I'm with Chris... you wanna help out the artist? Pay the royalty. Otherwise, you really want to help out yourself, and are throwing them a bone in the process...
But most royalty free music sucks (yours totally not included Dan)... so what's a photographer to do
QUOTE(nikon geekette @ September 15 2005, 10:27 PM)
I'm with Chris... you wanna help out the artist? Pay the royalty.
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I think that setting up a system for them to accept the payment from downloads might actually be more work than it's worth and so maybe that's why they haven't bothered to respond to any of my requests, any of Liana's requests or any of Pepper Nix's requests for info on how to do that.
If they want to charge me for using a little bit more of their song than is on iTunes then I'm glad to pay the bill...all they gotta do is send it to me.
QUOTE(davidjay @ September 15 2005, 09:39 PM)
I think that setting up a system for them to accept the payment from downloads might actually be more work than it's worth and so maybe that's why they haven't bothered to respond to any of my requests, any of Liana's requests or any of Pepper Nix's requests for info on how to do that.
If they want to charge me for using a little bit more of their song than is on iTunes then I'm glad to pay the bill...all they gotta do is send it to me.
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If they want to charge me for using a little bit more of their song than is on iTunes then I'm glad to pay the bill...all they gotta do is send it to me.
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Interesting....
Anyone else have any additional thoughts ???
I looked around for who I would contact even if I did want to pay the royalties...it's SO unclear. Most of the time it seems to be the label...who knows how much the artist actually gets at the end of the day.
On a side note, I saw a commercial for Sandals that used the same song I'm using...but it was WAY sped up. Either that was to match their 30 second ad spot...or it was the ol' "change the formula just enough to avoid the copyright" trick that drug companies use with patents. Most of that is probably senseless drivle...but it's late so I have an excuse.
Kevin
On a side note, I saw a commercial for Sandals that used the same song I'm using...but it was WAY sped up. Either that was to match their 30 second ad spot...or it was the ol' "change the formula just enough to avoid the copyright" trick that drug companies use with patents. Most of that is probably senseless drivle...but it's late so I have an excuse.
Kevin
I gotta say, if you've made the effort to contact these people and to try and honestly find a way to get money in their hands, and don't receive any response, then have at. Like DJ said, he's willing to front the money, he just can't find any hands to put it in...
Just a little update info...
So I have a Bryan Adams song on our site (for now, I like change), but because I was interested I emailed someone for info and legalities on the subject at their main site. I got a reply back from a girl who said that she was going to forward my question on to someone else who might have a better idea. But she basically said that the legalities are questionable, but no one will bother you and it's not a big deal. I think the main issue is someone who is selling or reproducing and distributing the work because that undersells the artist.
The example was brought up earlier about walking into a borders or something and seeing a book with your pic all over it. As cool as that would be, you'd probably want some dough. But I don't think it's exactly the same situation here. In that case somebody is making money off the sale of your work. In the case of using music on your site, you are neither selling nor reproducing or distributing another artists work. To make the coffee shop point maybe more direct, if you walked into a photography exhibit and they had music playing in the background, would you question the legality of doing so? If the music artist walked in the same exhibit, would they? I have a hard time thinking it would ever be an issue unless they were a real stickler. I'd personally be stoked if another artist thought that my work enhanced the experience people have when viewing or listening to their own work.
So I have a Bryan Adams song on our site (for now, I like change), but because I was interested I emailed someone for info and legalities on the subject at their main site. I got a reply back from a girl who said that she was going to forward my question on to someone else who might have a better idea. But she basically said that the legalities are questionable, but no one will bother you and it's not a big deal. I think the main issue is someone who is selling or reproducing and distributing the work because that undersells the artist.
The example was brought up earlier about walking into a borders or something and seeing a book with your pic all over it. As cool as that would be, you'd probably want some dough. But I don't think it's exactly the same situation here. In that case somebody is making money off the sale of your work. In the case of using music on your site, you are neither selling nor reproducing or distributing another artists work. To make the coffee shop point maybe more direct, if you walked into a photography exhibit and they had music playing in the background, would you question the legality of doing so? If the music artist walked in the same exhibit, would they? I have a hard time thinking it would ever be an issue unless they were a real stickler. I'd personally be stoked if another artist thought that my work enhanced the experience people have when viewing or listening to their own work.
Well thought out, interesting points, thanks TREW!!!!
QUOTE(TREW @ September 16 2005, 05:00 PM)
In the case of using music on your site, you are neither selling nor reproducing or distributing another artists work. To make the coffee shop point maybe more direct, if you walked into a photography exhibit and they had music playing in the background, would you question the legality of doing so?
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Actually, yes, I would. I would wonder if they've paid the royalties to have the music playing (but I'm weird like that and have heard stories of bad things happening to small businesses because they had the radio playing where customers could hear). And, whether you think so or not, by having music along with your images, you are using it to sell. It is reproduction if it's playing on your site -- a public performance. It would be like someone using a Web site design that you paid $4000 for (or 80 hours designing) and arguing that it isn't hurting anyone and that they're not selling it to anyone so what's the big deal?
QUOTE(TREW @ September 16 2005, 05:00 PM)
If the music artist walked in the same exhibit, would they? I have a hard time thinking it would ever be an issue unless they were a real stickler. I'd personally be stoked if another artist thought that my work enhanced the experience people have when viewing or listening to their own work.
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The artist might be flattered, you're right. But their label would have a conniption because it's in public.
For all it's worth... it seems like everyone who has actually attempted to contact these companies to try and pay, the replies from these companies seems to point to "we don't care if you use it for that purpose."
QUOTE(asquier @ September 16 2005, 02:47 PM)
The artist might be flattered, you're right. But their label would have a conniption because it's in public.
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....
QUOTE(TREW @ September 16 2005, 02:00 PM)
... because I was interested I emailed someone for info and legalities on the subject at their main site. I got a reply back from a girl who said that she was going to forward my question on to someone else who might have a better idea. But she basically said that the legalities are questionable, but no one will bother you and it's not a big deal....[right][snapback]15966[/snapback][/right]
It has always amazed me that so many people take the responsibility upon themselves to try and protect music labels even though non of us understand the music industry enough to have any clue how they make their money...or what their goals are for individual artists.
Labels spend millions of dollars every year simply to promote their artist and get their individual brands known to the masses...I would assume the marketing geniouses behind these labels could see the big picture well enough to not only not be bothered by someone like us using their music but actually be excited about it...and it appears this is the case as Tricia pointed out!
Thanks for posting that up T-bone! You rock!
.and it appears this is the case as Tricia pointed out! Thanks for posting that up T-bone! You rock!
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[/quote]
Hey DJ that wasn't me!! It was actually AVG. He has been using the forum a lot lately, go figure!
Tricia
Thanks for posting that up T-bone! You rock![right][snapback]15979[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Hey DJ that wasn't me!! It was actually AVG. He has been using the forum a lot lately, go figure!
Tricia
For those who don't think they are distributing someones music with these slideshows, think again.
Just point your browser to the directory where showit is and instead of ending with a / add music.mp3. Voila -- you get the music file and you can save it on your computer.
Also, there are tons of music capture programs out there. Basically if it is coming out of your speakers, you can capture it to your hard drive.
So other than intent, how is this any different than the other music sharing services out there?
Just point your browser to the directory where showit is and instead of ending with a / add music.mp3. Voila -- you get the music file and you can save it on your computer.
Also, there are tons of music capture programs out there. Basically if it is coming out of your speakers, you can capture it to your hard drive.
So other than intent, how is this any different than the other music sharing services out there?
Jim is right...you can download the Mp3 files from the Showit Web folder so be careful with that.
...it's still quite a bit different because to do what you explained is pretty freakin hard to figure out and if people don't know that the file is named what it is they'll never find it....those other peer to peer services make it easy and that's why they get closed down.
Here's a challenge...
Try downloading the full song from my site...actually don't bother...it's impossible
Try downloading 1/2 of the song....actually...that's impossible too
So just try to download 1/3 of it...oh...that is also not possible..
Well I guess you could spend a good half hour getting the ittty bitty 1 minute edited piece of the song but you'd have to download it as a Quicktime file and then rip the audio out of the Quicktime movie and change it into an Mp3 and even then you still only have a tiny bit more than you could've heard on iTunes ...and all that work to save 1 dollar??? We worked hard to protect the music and protect the artist while also making it super easy to buy the music and find out more about the artist.
QUOTE
So other than intent, how is this any different than the other music sharing services out there?
well... ...it's still quite a bit different because to do what you explained is pretty freakin hard to figure out and if people don't know that the file is named what it is they'll never find it....those other peer to peer services make it easy and that's why they get closed down.Here's a challenge...
Try downloading the full song from my site...actually don't bother...it's impossibleTry downloading 1/2 of the song....actually...that's impossible too
So just try to download 1/3 of it...oh...that is also not possible..
Well I guess you could spend a good half hour getting the ittty bitty 1 minute edited piece of the song but you'd have to download it as a Quicktime file and then rip the audio out of the Quicktime movie and change it into an Mp3 and even then you still only have a tiny bit more than you could've heard on iTunes ...and all that work to save 1 dollar??? We worked hard to protect the music and protect the artist while also making it super easy to buy the music and find out more about the artist.
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