The short story is I gave P a shot for 2 months and it was nothing but frustration. I have a client that refuses to even release an event to her friends because she was so frustated herself just trying to log in to view her own pictures. So far I have 3 events online and I've had to help each of those clients get logged in - I had to hand walk them over the phone just to get LOGGED IN. No time savings there, plus I get to show my client my "favorites" - this wonderful unveiling of the best pictures just moments after she was spitting mad not being able to log in. I can't have someone feeling negative emotions when seeing her pictures for the very first time.

So let's have it... what are the alternatives? I'd like to create an orderly list here so I can study them this weekend and implment one of them. Specifically I'm just looking for some sort of ordering system I can implement using my own SSL certificate (which I'd purchase). I'm already creating galleries with iView. I'd like some sort of form I'd link them to where they maybe enter the pic numbers they want along with prices, it calculates everything up, presents them a total and collects a CC number which is somehow securely delivered to me. I can then run the CC manually on my terminal by its number and order the prints from WHCC, re-package and re-ship them to my clients.

That's more work, but as they say, and boy is it true "If you want a job done right, you have to do it yourself".

"True Dat!"



List? Help??

Thanks.

Pickpic!

I use ez photo sales- new release of after shutter coming soon

Pickpic, but there is a waiting list. I am not sure how long it is right now.

You could get on the list now, and try something like Collages.net until you get it installed. I loved Collages.net. Our customers loved it, too.

Digilabs

We are on the council of a company that is making an image browser to be released early next year. They want input from photographers about what they want.

We told them to make the photo BIG BIG BIG!!! The small image everyone else does is our main gripe about browsers.

What do you "The People" want to see in a browser? And we'll pass it along and let you know when it's up for beta testing.

Power To The Sheeple!!!

Pictage is aware of the log in problem, and is supposed to be fixed with the makeover in a few weeks.

Seriously, are they saying WEEKS to fix a login problem????

http://www.opensourcephoto.net/forum/index...?showtopic=9431

The login problem that is part of the fix occurs when you mark your event as a sample event (and don't require registration) but only release it to the owner. It's not really how it was designed to be used.

I've had 2 clients have problems logging in - 1 because she was using a different email address than the one she had given me and that was registered with Pictage. The other because she was typing the password and mistook a 1 for an l or i or something like that. When I told her to cut and paste (after I tested and could get in just fine), no problems.

Sorry for the threadjack, Kevin... back to you!

+1! I just switched last week from Pictage and I absolutely ADORE EZPhotosales. It's a complete 360.

Kevin, given you're planning to do everything you mentioned in paragraph #2 of your original post, then PickPic is your ticket. We're transitioning as we speak. PickPic is the best online proofing solution out there -- hands down... especially if you may want to customize your online offerings down the road (i.e., beyond just basic prints).

So check in with Troy and Rebecca to see where you might line up in the waiting list. If it's just a short while, then stick with Pictage since you're already onboard and just work through some of the kinks. Chances are you'll have your PickPic site up and running before Pictage launches their new consumer site... which is now due later in the year -- sometime in 4th quarter rather than August as originally scheduled. That's the latest news anyway.

Best of luck!!!

David

Go with Collages.net. We used them, went to Pictage, hated Pictage, went back to Collages.net. We had 18K in sales from them last year. You can use your own lab, or theirs. They just started doing albums as well.

Pickpic freaking rocks my boat!! And that partnered with ProDPI really doesn't get much better!!!

Check out my cart here: http://www.halbergprints.com

You can log into any event without a padlock on it. (I think there's only two right now...) If you'd like to see a full wedding, check out Courtney and Doug's wedding using the password: Rameson

Seriously, I'm soooo stoked with my cart! (only, if you're using media temple, don't use them for hosting the cart...)

Currently I am using Gallery 2, which is open source. I have complete control, but have to do all my order fulfillment and can only set one price table. I am looking into other shopping cart modules I can integrate with Gallery, but as of now am using the one that comes with the install. I am happy with it, and have used it for about 4 years now (started w/version 1.0). Being a control freak, I guess I like that it is on my site (self built) and I can edit and modify it as I need to. And free is good too! Also the only upload/time limits are the ones I choose to set, since I host it all on my server, basically I just have to watch that I don't fill up my own server space. For DIYers like me, it's great!!

Oh and, I got an offer in the mail froma company called Click Image a few months ago. Went onto their sight to sign up for a free membership and never got an activation email, and could not ever log in or get anyone to answer my emails. Gave up on that, so I do NOT recommend them, but they are (apparently) in the list too.

[quote name='nphaskins' date='July 26 2007, 06:29 PM' post='176831']
Pictage is aware of the log in problem, and is supposed to be fixed with the makeover in a few weeks.
[/quote


fixed? ...few weeks???

LOVE my cart- i self fulfill.

and TIM is the BEST !
http://www.picturespro.com/

the best part - you buy it ONCE, put it on your server and that's it! then you can customize it however you want.

here's the cart page
http://www.picturespro.com/pages/photography_shopping_cart/

tim also does website templates

I also have picturespro and absolutely love it! Its customizable, its a one time purchase, and I like that I have full control of my product.

Ksenia

I'm with Robin on this. Photo Cart is awesome. I was even able integrate it to match my site AND incorporate showit web shows into the cart.

The site also has a prety good support forum of avid users.

+1 LOVE IT.

Laurie

My point exactly.









Thanks guys! I'm looking into these options today. I'll figure something out.

Thanks for putting this together Matt. I don't know how I missed it. Super good info.


It would seem that every one of these options has something somewhere in the package that is a deal breaker. I swear if someone could create one of these things and pull it all together, they'd have every photographer in the industry as a client in a matter of months.

Mostly what I'm seeing is just what Matt said in his summary in the above thread. Either complicated / over charged billing / steep setup fees (which in the case of PickPic I can sort of understand) - or the interface itself is garbage. I really liked Collages.net but the flash based gallery and the slow fades between images - DEAL BREAKER. I'm uploading 1400 images. It's going to take the client a week to click through them all with that slow non-responsive fade working.

The galleries I currently generate with iView are quick, smooth and refresh the image as fast as the internet will allow - pretty well click through the picks as fast as you can push the button.


I'm sort of considering eZ photo sales, except I don't think PayPal has any place in a professional business. I dispise paypal but oh well.


I really think I may go back to what used to work fine for me before.... put up a gallery, link them to a PDF they print out and fill out as a paper order form, and mail it back to me with a check. Easy easy easy easy E A S Y. I drop the check in my bank account and use WHCC Print Fulfillment to directly drop ship the prints right to the customer, they email me happy in 4 days. Doesn't get any more easy than that.

Only thing required is the customer has a printer and a postage stamp, and there is ZERO overhead or comission involved. Just what I pay WHCC for the cost of the prints and the $5 for USPS postage to the client.

Thanks for the feedback everyone!

Kevin -- you are sounding like the bride who is going to get her cousin to shoot her wedding.

While you say easy easy easy easy, I kept thinking you picked this solution because it was cheap cheap cheap.

That said, think of how much $$ you can earn if you make it insanely easy for people to give you $$. A great web interface and credit cards goes a long way to doing that.

While everyone has their favorites, Pickpic is my favorite. I firmly believe you get what you pay for and that is particularly true for a photo shopping cart.

Follow the Halberg model: Pickpic - proDPI executive drop ship for fulfillment. You don't need to leave the comfort of your chair.

Ouch!



Actually I really like the whole pickpic model and as I said - there's a setup fee, but I understand it in this case. Later this year I plan to probably re-design our entire website, switch around how I do my web hosting and everything else. It's going to be a pretty major project and I may migrate to PickPic at that time. I like the idea it fulfills through my own existing merchant account.

I haven't had much trouble doing things the old print & mail way. I don't suppose that's any "harder" than a client using some of the complicated interfaces offered with these various solutions. I wanted to move away from that as I didn't want to fulfill myself anymore, but I've got a full time helper now so I suppose that's a wash in time vs. money in the end.


Most of the other solutions basically boil down to being a place to upload your gallery and some way for people to give me money via the internet. I already have a merchant account, I just need to securely get the cc info. I'm considering creating a blank online form that submits via SSL where they can go type in their info and cc number then just submit it, then I do the manual ordering from there. So many different options. Augh.

I hear what you are saying. It was (still is) confusing on the best path to follow and pickpic isn't cheap. In another post I pointed out it is about $90/month if you assume a two year life span on the software. That said, I can't imaging anything better at this point.

Good luck on your solution. As you pointed out, I think it is at least wise to accept credit cards instead of making people print out an order form and mail with a check.

I use Pictage. It's this new mom & pop operation out of Torrance

another happy Picturepro/Photocart user here. I heard of them through OSP in fact and have been very happy. The extra features of pickpic are stuff I don't even want so it worked out.

It's also nice that when you have a question or problem and call the phone number, you speak to the man himself, who knows everything about everything about the product.

I use More Photos. It's a shopping cart program that sends the orders to my email and then I fullfill the order. Things I love about it.. you see MY LOGO.. not the labs. The images are big, the site is fast and simple so grandma can even use it.

Check my shopping cart out here:
http://jenniferdavisphotography.morephotos...nt/pictures.asp

If you click on "The Wedding of Chantal and Ken" there is no password.

The site allows me to collect emails for "coming soon events" but the company will never spam my clients! I have full control over emails going out. Feel free to PM me with any questions about their service.

I am getting ready to shoot my first wedding (not as a second) and i was looking into college.net..thanks for the confidence builder!

Geanette

Another vote for pickpic. We were planning on getting set up with them this spring, but because we have to switch merchant service providers and change stuff around with our current gallery - we're waiting for the off season to do all that. But, we'll definitely go with them in November or so. Hopefully they'll have that waiting list handled a bit by then. Their customer service is awesome. For this summer, we're using collages.net. I'm not crazy about them, but it was a quick and easy solution for the immediate.

Good luck.

Emily

Kevin, you don't quite have to do ALL the order fulfillment yourself with PickPic. If you have a lab that will drop-ship to your client, then you can forward the order to the lab for processing. You'll have to tweak that part of the work-flow a bit at the beginning... but once you have it nailed, it becomes second nature.

Best of luck with whatever route you choose!!! Ultimately, it's all a matter of personal preference and what works best in your own business model. And nobody is better equipped to make that evaluation than YOU.

David

That is the most overused excuse that needs to be put to sleep. Whoever at Pictage came up with that line needs their mouth washed out with soap. And not the liquid kind, but the old fashioned bar soap that leaves little pieces stuck between your teeth that you will taste for days.

I love you, Nate.

Dang -- your mom was mean!

But I an certain you deserved it!

LMAO, oh man, I love you Nate, but not in a gay way, more in like the way Chunk loves Sloth off of the Goonies. You da man.

RED CART!!!!!!!!

LOL!!!

You're alright Nate.



And thanks everyone for all the great suggestions. It's been a stressful day - it's like every solution is "pretty good except"... for that one glairing deal breaker in every one of them. I'm liking PickPic a lot - that may be a long term solution later this year or in the spring. I also like the sound of the new After Shutter to be realeased in the near future (which is a spin off of EZ Photo Sales as I understand it).

For right now though - this moment, this week - I'm going back to iView gallery linked to a paper PDF order form. It's worked fine in the past. I made it more pretty and more clear, plus noting people are welcome to call me to place a CC order over the phone - it doesn't get any more easy than that. We'll see. Right now I'm getting behind on much more important things so I just have to make a choice and stick with it.

This is a great thread as well as the one Matt started. Super reference material for people in the future.

Yeah, another vote for PickPic. I know it's seems to be getting old. And it's also starting to sound like a Pictage thread -- you know, there's nothing wrong with Pictage, you're just doing it wrong.

But really, we have had such great luck with PickPic I wouldn't go back to anything else.

I used Pictology until just a few weeks ago when I decided there must be something to this Pictage thing.......haven't found it yet.......still looking.....hmmm.....I'll go to conference and see if they can impress me....

BBWWWAAAAHHHHHHAAAAAHHHAAA!!!! HEE HEE HEE!! So true. how many times did I hear that? "You must be doing something wrong"or "we're working on it"or "it'll be fixed soon"I turned blue in the face from holding my breath, then I tried both Pictology and Instaproofs. both free (if you are low volume) and both perfectly fine.make sure you don't touch the Kool-aid

It never gets much love around here, but ExposureManager rocks. It's inexpensive, the lowest cut on CC transactions i've seen, and highly configurable to any type of photographic product you want to sell. You can self-fulfil or lab fulfil and also offer discounts, packages, and coupons. No limit to uploads and no time limits. You can also do a fast proxy upload and then simply upload the hi-rez images as their purchased.

cheers,
michael

Don't accept any liguid refreshments from them and never, ever look directly into their eyes.

me too, and it's badasssss. then i fulfill orders using WHCC, Pixel2Canvas and AsukaBook

You guys are soooo funny! You make my day!

I have signed up with Smugmug and have been able to customise it. I will also be changing it so it goes through my server as www.emeraldeye.biz rather than www.emeraldeye.smugmug.com
I know some people think it's not as professional, but I have recieved great prints, love the prices, love the unlimited upload, love the flash interface. I wish the customisation was easier and more flexible, but at least it's there. It is much cheaper than many of the others. And it works in Australia! You wouldn't believe how hard it is to get this type of service out here (delivery to Australia is the issue). Pictage doesn't deliver to Australia.
Try Smugmug, play around with it. Trial it for 14 days. I can give you a discount voucher too. I have only just signed up and already have satisfied clients.

I believe Pictage work best for two kind of users: those who have high volume of sales where it would be cost effective to outsource the process and to those who are solo studio with to much work and have no time left and is a need to outsource.

For the occassional seller it becomes too expensive unless you think of them as an online back up service. If you sell prints every other month, the monthly fee of $99 will eat up most, if not all, your earning. So, make sure you do your numbers.

Collages.net is the up and coming. They have copied the Pictage model and done a nice job with the user interface experience, but they have some limitations as to how long you can keep your galleries up.

Pickpic and Photocart sound like the two best alternatives for self-fulfilement. Photocart is rich in features and great price. Not crazy about the user interface.

Pickpic has done great with the user interface and looks. It sure has a lot of devotees here and I am sure is well deserve. But I think Pickpic should offer a payment plan that will allow the person to pay as you go while using the product. That would make the product more accessible.

Smug Mug - no limitations on how long you can have galleries up or on how many images you can upload (size limit per image for pro account is a huge 24mb)
Smug Mug - only $150 per year
User interface easy, different templates and customisable
Easy for clients to use. Quick quality fulfilment.
I still think it is the best option even for larger businesses.

Is instaproofs on this list? Everybody at the Utah PUG talks about instaproofs and pickpic.

Personally I am trying to ween myself from Pictage and go with ImageQuix, although the credits are confusing, the customer service is great. They walk me through any troubles I am having.

Pictage was such a great idea. The community is wonderful. The billing mistakes and lack of follow through in customer service is amazingly bad, especially at $1200 per year. I think they got too big too fast.

Been really happy with Pictology!

http://www.pictology.com

Instaproof seems nice too. It is free and only 15% fee incliuding credit card procesing.

Really, there is a lot of good alternative and each one has its own perks...

My only concern with outsourcing CC processing is that I am placing my earnings into someone elses basket. I am trusting in them that they won't run off with my money.

I think services like Pictage and Collage.net that are well established in the community is trustworthiness that they will not run of tio Bermuda with your money.

Other services may be as trustworthy but they still developing their puiblic image.

I think that is why ebay, Amazon Market place and paypal has been such a hit. They provide trustworthiness in the middle of the non-personal web.

I have considered all the alternatives to Pictage... they even look great and some even better than Pictage (or Collage.net) at first glance, but I feel that if I leave Pictage would be for self fullfilemnt and won't risk it with an up coming company.

(Think of the Skooks Kart saga).