Dude! I sent out my newsletter early this morning and I'm stoked so many of you are into the Freedom Club idea!

Also, I had a few goofs early on (sorry about that) but I think they are fixed so everyone should be able to see the videos now and we'll also be going to Flash video soon so that'll make it an even more enjoyable experience for everyone!

Get-free.com was my most expensive domain acquistion so far but I really wanted it. $1500 just for the URL...crazy but it's cool b/c that's what the Freedom Club is all about. Getting Free from the mass of noise out there and getting just the info you need from people who've proven themselves. I've had the priviledge to learn from so many successful and incredibly [b]right photographers who do things differently than I do and I intend on getting many of them involved too so we can help find the information that will work for you.

Click here to see the email with more links and info.

Rock on!
DJ
. http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Opensourcep...eedom-club.html

You are too cool DJ!!!

this looks amazing and we're so excited to join!

I always thought OSP was grossly under-priced at free...however I didn't think that you'd start another forum. I'm willing to give it a chance (primarily because, DJ, you're pretty dang cool in my book), however, I'm hoping it doesn't dilute or cannibalize the talent on OSP (or compete with OSP in any way).

If the magic of OSP doesn't show up on the Freedom Club, you might consider shutting OSP down for a while. I know...that's a pretty bold statement...but, pitfall analysis is one of my specialties.

Okay, DJ, I'll make it easy for you...

Question1: How are you going to make the Freedom Club a better value than OSP without negatively impacting the quality of OSP? (In the adult barley-based beverage business, companies introduce new products very strategically such that a new brand doesn't cannibalize an existing brand.)

I have another (related) question...but maybe I'll be a big meanie and post it over on the FC site. <evil laughter>

I'm sometimes very dense when it comes to advertising. Honestly, I'll see a commercial on TV, and not have any clue about what's being sold [eddie's thinking about funny cavemen now]....

So, when I got your newsletter, it sounded interesting, but I didn't know what it was.

The post above mentions it as a new forum. Is that what it is?

Hey DJ,
Great idea!

Im just a little confused with the membership cost... on the vid you mention $15, then when you go to register it says:



So is it $15/month for GF? (ha im used to GF meaning girlfriend... thats a cheap investment!)

apologies if I havent listened / read things proper!

JD

Great, that site is blocked for content here at work. What kind of site are you running DJ?

Yes, I have the same question... Is it a $15 sign-up fee or a $15/month fee?

$15 per month with a recurring subscription (which you can cancel at any time) or $150 for the year.

K.C they are onto you! Those productivity killing b@$7@rds!

JD

I think I found out why this was rejected as spam:

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.get-free.com

I am personally excited to see this fee based board. It weeds out and most importantly I would feel comfortable asking quesitons and postings things without worrying that my clients will stumble across it.
Looking forward to it and I signed up this morning.

ok, so i signed up out of curiousity. but within the next couple of months I'll need to have these questions answered:


1. What value am I getting out of my $15 that I can't get elsewhere? (especially if the reviews aren't relevant to my current needs)

2. How will OSP and FC provide mutually exclusive content?
a. What will FC provide that OSP cannot?
b. What will OSP provide that FC cannot?

3. Will making two forums serve only to weaken them both?

4. Will FC be anymore "private" from clients than OSP is?

5. Other than the subscription fees, why would DJ want two forums?
a. Has DJ become dissatisfied with OSP?

6. Why not post the video reviews on Dane Sander's site?

7. What will be the "tone" of the forum?
a. Will membership numbers be constrained?
b. Will this forum have a business focus rather than a photographic focus?
c. Will/should this forum create the same "community" feel as OSP?

8. What would convince me to post on FC vs OSP, where I have a bigger audience?

9. Will this forum fall under stricter control?
a. Will heated (and off-topic) arguments be removed/discouraged?
b. Will general (goofy) topics of conversation be discouraged?
c. Will repetitive new-comer topics be discouraged?
(not saying we should or shouldnt do these things, just that this is what i see in other places)

10. Will this forum be more of an advertisement for products, or an open sharing of ideas?

11. Why on earth does the photographic community need yet ANOTHER photography forum? We've got quite a few flavors already....


We'll see where this goes.

as per usual jk u've said all that I meant to say with so much more flare and elegance! these sorts of questions were floating around my mind too.....

i should quickly add that i'm in a piss poor mood today, so I hope that my questions didn't come off as brash. (<---- smiley faces make everything better)

dj is super swell, and I don't mean to rain on the parade. I wouldn't have signed up if I didn't think this had great potential! i would love to see what round hole this round peg fits.

... sorry to hear that JK, feel better soon and btw... your work totally rocks! (ur blog is bookmarked on my inspiro list!)

JD

Jillian I hope tomorrow is a better day for you . But in spite of your bad day I think you bring up some really valid questions. I'm interested in seeing how they are answered.

+1

Ditto to everything Jillian said, well, except I signed up out of "curiosity"


There are other pay sites, DWF, PWP, and I heard FM is now pay. DWF and PWP give a 30 day free trial and both of them combined cost about the same per year as "Get Free", which is an oxymoron, since I am paying for something called "Get Free"

I'll give it 30 days and see what I think.

-Neal

Those domain below are a lot cheaper here in u.k there are asking me only 20GBP per year

freedom-club.biz
freedom-club.us
freedom-club.tv
freedom-club.cc
freedom-club.ws

Ciao

I love Jillian!

I'm already paying for both DWF and PWP - both of which are cheaper than Get-Free - and both of which have proven track records as being beneficial. But, they both started out as free sites and still offer free trials. I would have to see some definite benefit to feel the need to plunk down $15 a month.

FC pays for itself just getting to watch the videos like Vamos. And he has the nice quality QuickTime ones available as well so you don't have to suffer through terrible flash video quality. I would pay 15 a month alone to get to watch the videos of DJ's shoots. I'm curious to see where it goes and I definately agree that JK asked some great questions.

i've just signed up and lets see where it goes...

oh and I'm also curious to see how Jillian's questions will be answered...


good day from nj

well, the questions are really open to anyone, if you think you have an idea. i *do* think there could be some great benefits to the forum, depending on which direction it's heading....

so anyone have any deep thoughts? we don't just have to sit around and wait for dj. ;-) he's a busy man!

Of all of the secret or subscription forums/newsletters/clubs/groups/brain trusts/boards/etc that I have ever belonged to (mainly business and web commerce) only one forum and one advisory group has been worth it... and I'm not saying how much I pay for the forum or what the group talks about

The rest of them all seem to fall short based on expectations or the information leaks out or the user base is too small to be worth while or the ROI is pathetic or it is one "expert" rephrasing widely available knowledge.

I think the reason that my two successes, mentioned above, work is because of the amount of money that is at stake... we each have a vested interest in keeping our methods private and in not introducing competition. There is no leader trying to help the followers, we are all equals trying to maximize revenue.

I know it's not very OSP-like, sorry

No Brady - it's not very OSP-like. Honestly I am surprised by this comment (or I am just not understanding you) coming from you.

I don't have any secrets, if anyone would like to know mine, just ask! That's what makes a community great!

Yea Jason!

I just don't get all of this negativity? Not to toot my own horn, but I honestly have a lot more photography education and experience than most people on OSP. Excluding those like Jason, who have been doing this for a long time, and are very good at it, and certainly not to take anything away from anyone.

First of all, we all know DJ very well, and it is obvious that the cost of admission will be offset by what ever free (several already) things he gives us.

More importantly is that if he saves me five minutes per wedding on something I am doing now then it is way more than worth it to pay the minimal amount that is being asked.

The average seminar I attend cost approximately 3k by the time I pay for my flight, room, and etc. It has always been 3k well spent and I have never looked back and wondered if it was worth it. Lets see, so at $150 per year, I would have to spend 20 years on GetFree to get my 3k worth. I'm willing to bet anyone that I get that value in the first few months!

Come on everyone? Can you put a price on DJ's Showit actions, or on the ability to blow people away with such a simple, inexpensive program like Showit? I learn something new, or a shorter, better way of doing something, everytime I talk to DJ. To have all of this in one place where I can go grab it with little to no effort is worth gold to me. $150...really? It sounds more like $1500 or $15000, the way people are responding.

Does that mean that we all should charge for helping others? Of course not. DJ can, and if he does, then the more power to him. It is still helping me big time, and I will get in line every day to pay him $15. Does that mean that the biggest giver our industry has ever seen has suddenly stopped giving and will charge for everything? Yea sure, because we all know that is what really motivates and drives this guy right?

There are a lot of people out there that just regurgitate everthing and anything. Even the simplest thing that I have ever seen DJ do a video about has been fresh and different. This guy has a proven track record and does not desreve to be questioned the way this is being questioned.

I have seen and read the same mentality here when it comes to attending seminars given by other members too. Comments like "anything to fill more seats" etc. are just so far out there that I just can't comprehend them. Brady, not to point any fingers, but "There is no leader trying to help the followers, we are all equals trying to maximize revenue." To me that says a lot about you, and YOUR attitude towards everyone else but yourself, in general. Some people, like DJ, Jason, myself, and many others that I am not going to drag into this, do exactly that without asking anything in return. True leaders do it without fear of the competition. Because there is no competition. People who "think" they are leaders, (and have said it so many times that they actually believe it themselves) are concerned and worried about the competition usually because the position they have self-vaulted to is neither deserved nor long lived.

Wow! Agreed!

Well said Frank! You spend more than $15 in a blink, a couple cups of mocha or something at Starbucks, etc. and on and on. I cant travel to all these different things where valuable information exists. DJ travels the world, speaks at all kinds of events, and if I could see some of those videos and get a better handle on my growing business by doing so, money well spent!

+1 to everything Frank has to say. Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.

I've learned so much from DJ, I had no problem at all with the $15. I would pay that same amount gladly to take a good friend that shares information with me to lunch every month, so why not?

And because I'm a geeky dork, it thrilled me to get logged in to the site so early that I got Christine for my username and #11 for my membership number. I'm a geek like that. It is how I roll.

Christine, busily working on the launch of ChristineTremoulet.com

Good post Frank.


I know how fast you can blow $10, so $15 shouldn't be a big deal to you

well, the secrets are not in a photo related industry, in fact, it is an industry with low barriers to entry that is more profitable than just about anything available on the planet today

the comment was in response to jillian asking for discussion. what i am saying is that in my experience, 99% of all of the cases where exclusivity (be it in payment, invitation or otherwise) has been implied in a club/forum/newsletter/group/etc, it has been a major let down and the only two times when i have experienced it living up to its hype has been when their is a huge incentive to keep quiet

Wait...I paid for Vamos when it first came out last year!!! It's a great video...but you can't use the "free Vamos video" angle on those who paid for it once already.

I'm still concerned that either the FC will fail to thrive, or, the soul of OSP will suffer. I'm just wondering if it might have been better to convert OSP to a pay site and then start another free site. (Sorry...that's just my game theory mind at work...) Here is why I say this...I know there are other pay forums out there...I don't belong to any of them. Take OSP away from me and I'm in trouble...it's like a vital organ, ya know? But this new deal...man...a lot has to happen to replicate the magic and resourcefulness of OSP and kick it up a notch to make it BETTER than OSP. That's why I'm quick to say I'd be more likely to plunk down the full annual subscription price and take OSP "private" ( I mean make it a pay site...he-he-he...) than pay for a full year of something that doesn't yet have a track record like OSP.

Don't get me wrong...if anyone can do it, DJ can. I'm just one of those "trust but verify" kind of business-persons...

BTW -- Brady...I understand what you mean.

I don't think the response is negative to DJ so much as it is concern over the health of OSP.
I must not have read the fine print because I thought GF was a place to download video's ect, I didn't realize it was a forum too! I guess I was in "editing-land."
The ability to discuss the materials provided among people with access to those same materials is a good idea. And the materials provided I am absolutely confident will be worth the price of admission.
I think that OSP has a strong niche and will roll along just fine. Timco (hope he doesn't mind me quoting him) described OSP as "A Phototgrapher's Lifestyle Forum" and I think that is very accurate. Where else can you get the sense of community? DJ is very smart, I don't think we would do this if he thought it would gut OSP, I'm guessing it will be much more "dry" and business oriented. I doubt it will have a "Check yourself" or "We Lived!" section
I do have to give it to DJ, yet another very shrewd business decision that will be profitable AND be very helpful to photographers

those are some very good points frank! i'm glad the discussion is up and running. i certainly don't want it to be negative in any way.

it's starting to sound to me like the get-free forum is not another community...it's basically a year-round 24/7 class that dj "teaches"....kind of like an interactive seminar. is that correct? i'm still missing the "point" or "focus" of a new forum. it sounds so much like a cross between OSP and dane's CutFrame, and i think the real message isn't clear.




i haven't seen negativity....just honest open questions. i am so eager to hear dj's exciting answers, and because I respect him as a businessman, i feel very certain he has great ones!


you have every right to toot your horn. you have a lot of respect on this forum and elsewhere.



but i was never looking for freebies from dj! i'm terribly happy to pay for the products that dj makes that add value to my business.


Ok. But I thought we were getting that kind of information openly on OSP already? I guess if this is more "dj school" then we'd be getting a clearer and more direct message. will the content be radically different (or more detailed) than what dj's been saying up till now?


Can't argue with you there, seminars are expensive, and this is not! But with a seminar, i know what I'm going to learn before I sign up.


Well, technically DJ put the price on showit effects, showit web, and other products....it's clearly stated on the Get It Fast site. And i've bought some of them! And I'm very happy to have them! Because they are lucrative products, I doubt DJ would limit their sales to only people in the club. Unless you're saying that all these products will be free through the club? In which case...hell yeah! ....but i doubt that's the case.




I don't expect DJ to give away the milk for free....but he did start the trend. He's spent years evangelizing OSP as open & free & giving. I doubt he's changing course so quickly. It's not that he doesn't deserve the money, or that it's really too much, or that he isn't worth it....it's that it seems antithetical to the reputation that he's built.

However....if he is offering something above and beyond what he built OSP to be....then I TOTALLY understand! And I'm EXCITED to be a part of it!! But, reviews of products and the recommendation to use pictage and show-it web are hardly new, and I get that on OSP. I am entirely excited to see what NEW things he's bringing to the table, which i'm sure are awesome. He just needs to tell it to me in small easy words, cause i'm not seeing through the hype-eese right now.



ok, i agree. too many people follow the herd and jump on bandwagons. and dj has great ideas. he has great products. i'm am willing to pay to hear his new ideas and and get first crack at new techniques and products. buuuuuuuuuuut:

1. he hasn't clearly said that's what this is.
2. i question everything. period.
a. if i didn't question everything, i'd just be one of those people who reguritates stuff.
b. you already said you don't like those people.



people like this are being normal people. people who have grown weary of commercials and guerrilla tactics. now i do agree that sometimes it's an uncalled for statement. but i really get afraid when people sign up for seminars for no reason! i'd rather they question whether or not it's really going to be worth the investment for their business. QUESTION EVERYTHING!! but don't be rude about it.



eh, that's a bone you're picking with brady, and i'm not going to interfere. except to say that there is room in my learning plan for both models, and I could never pick one or the other. [hint: if osp filled one role, and FC the other, i would be elated.]



to sum it all up:
1. not being negative, asking honest questions, expecting wonderful answers.
2. people shouldn't jump on a bandwagon without questions. or regurgitate stuff.
3. i talk a lot.

So, while he has our eager ears, our attention, and our admiration....where is the man who started all this.

you wanna join my club?

If we are friends, then shouldn't we all grow rich from this secret society?

Secrets are not what OSP is about (for most).

We went through all that in school. Someone would come in with images shot in an awesome location. When asked where it was, they couldn't remember or weren't exactly sure.

I even asked someone one time about music on their site because I thought it was awesome and just wanted to get it for myself to listen to. The person (not wanting to share, or afraid that someone else whould have their music) actually told me that they couldn't remember who did the music because they got it from someone else and ......... blah, blah blah. To the person who did this, that is reading this now, please don't think you have to fess up to anything. But come on, it is music on your site and you don't know who it is?

I'm supposed to be working, and I'm not. So please forgive me if I am coming off as ornery. Some things just get really old fast though.

ya lost me. are you still talking about the club, or am i missing something?

Sorry...ADD, I'm usually talking about a few things at once, and nothing at all.
I was talking about the secret society not GetFree.

Thanks for your reply to my other post Jillian. Always enjoy what you have to say.

lol, gotcha. i'm super slow tonight, it's not your fault, lol!

OK Brady, well you got the discussion started!

Frank - Well put my friend! I'm not sure what I can add that everyone
hasn't already said, but I will agree with Frank on the experience thing.
Both Frank and I have been in this biz a ridiculously long time and in the
last few years have worked very hard at taking our goals in new directions.
A big part of the success we've seen is because of all of you! Experience aside though, I think Frank will agree it's the little things that have been so helpful for us, and DJ has been a big part of that.

We both grew up in an industry based on secrets. When I was an assistant
just starting out I worked for some fashion photographers who kept
everything a secret. There was one guy who's head assistant made me sign a sheet of "rules
of "etiquette" when I walked in the door, including which bathroom I was to
use and when I should/should'nt use it! The other was "PLEASE DONT ASK XXX ANY QUESTIONS!" So if anyone should be upset about an "exclusive club" it should be me.

I think DJ's new freedom club will if anything help to grow the ever
expanding club we call OSP. What I think is hilarious is DJ launches this
HUGE new endeavor and then let's us take over!

DJ? It think Jillian has some questions!

Shot at 2007-06-29

Well, I will add to the concern of losing OSP, or at least the importance of it. I will also pay for anything that helps me. Though, I understand that DJ is in business and more power to him, but I really hope the Fredom Clube is somewhat exclusive and private, but the info runs freely. If this can be done , I am signing up. So are we going to have Freedom Club and OSP camps or are we all going to be friends?
Frank, when are you going to start your own club? I know the years at RIT hardend you with all the secrets and postioning over there. Maybe we could call it the "Smart, Niiiiice people finish first in business'!!

Frank, I've had the exact thing happen to me. Heck, it might even be the same person....

I found the tune, btw.

I guess we'll see where this all leads - I signed up!

I alss had the exact same thing happen as well.....but I never found the tune

Cheers.

Dude Brady's in Fight Club!!

the first rule of fight club is....

No women?

Dude I know a 130 pound 14 y/o girl that could whip most of us... Link (she's the second on the list)