PPA Article

"To succeed, all of us must listen very carefully to what the client is looking for and be capable of giving it to them." - Bart Stevens
PPANJ President, 2005-2006

I disagree!

If we truly want to get into the psyche of our clients I would suggest that we STOP listening to what our clients are asking for and instead START observing what they are looking at! What magazines are our clients buying? What TV shows and advertising messages are attracting them? What stores are they shopping in and what websites are they visiting? This is the only way to figure out what they truly want...and I guarantee you that if we ask them they won't verbally tell us this.

Ok...listen...but act on what you see!

I think that's right on! People have a hard time verbally stating exactly what they like. Although they will always flock to things they enjoy.

If we do a good job of viewing what they are "looking at" like DJ said, then we don't need to worry too much about giving them what they 'asked for', but we can concentrate on exactly the things we know they will enjoy. And I bet every client that we do this for will be ecstatic with the results.

Thanks again for that great insight DJ. You got my mind running. (no fun smilie of guy running to use)

DJ for PPANJ President!

PPA is oldschool - Get into a PUG!

Lol... ok, I really don't wanna bash on the PPA or that article... but WOW!!! If I read that right, he's basically bashing photojournalists for entering the wedding market.

After reading/listening to "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" this past week, I really feel like this dude has jumped right into the Poor Dad's shoes, shifting the blame, and making it someone else's fault. I get the feeling that this book would be super eye-opening to this guy.

Oh, and DJ... I think you look HOT with the "bling" around your neck

LOL....that's great!!

Wow indeed!

Thanks for the article and your perception of it David.

Tim, I think you are right on. It sounds like he knows there is change that needs to be made, but he is scared of it and wants to blame others for making him change.

I think it is really funny that he talks about being an artist but tells everyone to continue to keep the traditional style in their photography. But don't great artists usually break all the norms and boundries so others can see life in a whole new way.

That's why I love OSP. All you guys are breaking boundries and adding so much to the photography industry.

Exactly! My philosophy is to do what I want, and what I want to do is be different (ie - NONtraditional). Most "special requests" that I get from brides are for specific posed shots (ie me and granny), or some sort of cliche shot that they saw in a friend's album. I'm happy to do those.. but they are almost always the lame-o shots of the day.

Once I show a bride and groom my slideshow and some prints, I want them to say "wow, I want my pictures to look like that!"
We're the ones obsessing over photography and working with it every day... shoudln't we be the ones with the ideas and concepts?

thanks for the article...that's awesome....and DJ...who took that "traditional" portrait of you?!!! haha

Whoever said that we didn't know what we're doing with our fancy cams? Dude needs to take a chill pill.

KK

I don't think that you will never be able to build a distinct brand if all you do is cater to the client!!! Be aware of trends, develop your unique product, and the clients will come!

I've got to add that it's really amusing how bitter these old-school photographers are about the "newbies."

"Most of today's newbie photographers don't have a clue as to what good portraiture, good lighting or good composition is. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people out there who get fancy equipment, think they know how to use it and then think they are photographers." - Bart Stevens


I see what he's saying, but I can't help but think that he seems to feel threatened...

I dont think that a unle Frank with his new digi cam is hurting my business.
Those are weddings that would never of booked a professional photographer in the first place.

The more people shoting cameras and being creative the better!



L.

Right on, Nathan! I'm a PPA member, but I wanna puke every time I see an award winning print in one of their publications. They all look the same! Old school, very traditional, precisely posed, etc.
DJ. . .in the spirit of your photography and forward-thinking ideas, I suggest you design & publish the next generation of pro photographer's magazines. How about "Open Source Pro", a magazine for the "New School" of photographic talent?

That would be awesome!!! Where can I subscribe?!

How awesome would that be?

BTW- For some reason that guy totally reminded me of Count Dooku from Star Wars. [attachmentid=961]

Right on DJ! I say you should write a photography business and marketing book!

The book I'm reading right now, "Do Something Different by Jurgen Wolff" has a similar case study. The study is about a Physics professor who wanted to write a physics book for youngsters and instead of asking his target audience, he studied what type of books children were borrowing from the local library and what the most popular books had in common. Although he still did use surveys to determine what the average 12 year old knows about concepts in gravity, etc. According to the book, the titles the guy wrote are popular sellers. So there.

I also would like to see an Open Source Pro magazine!

I'm so into that! Great idea! Maybe we could start by doing smaller OSP articles in other exising mags and then see how it grows from there!

Again, I love the idea and I think more and more people need to adopt the OSP mindset! It really does make the (photo) world a better place!

DJ for President for 2008

Amber for OSP President!

Aww shucks

Hey, English Major here... DJ let's collaborate... I would love to write some stuff...
I was a writer in my other life.

Hey DJ...can we have like a FHEO section for your mag? For HIS/HER eyes only. I want to be in charge of that....it could be a yearly thing kinda like sports illustrated swimsuit issue...but Open Source Pro Magazine's version of it!

Oh please oh please??? (insert a beggin' emoticon here)

KK

Hello David,
I started not to reply but I feel like I need to after reading the posts to this thread. Why all the negativity towards PPA? I do understand your point but I also understand Bart's. Actually if you read both, you both are saying the very same thing. Not that radically different. He says "To succeed, all of us must listen very carefully to what the client is looking for and be capable of giving it to them." You change your response around slightly and say exactly the same thing. To "listen" in the broad sense implies that we understand our target market. I don't think he actually meant that we only use our ears. You both are implying that we invest ourselves into our target market and learn their buying patterns in order to deliver a product.

Not really that radical. Actually, that’s basic marketing 101. Yet some respondents to the thread started an anti-PPA, anti-establishment line of thought. I do agree that PPA definitely leans more traditional and that a radical organizational change is past due. But what I don't like to see is PPA getting beat up when we have ALL benefited from PPA. From lectures to seminars to conventions to copyright protection....now they are lobbying for health insurance for us. PPA has helped us all, some a little, some a lot. And that is true whether you are a member of PPA or not. PPA shaped most of the wedding industry during the 80's and 90's. I don't think that your comment should have sparked this negative PPA line of thought. PPA just needs an overhaul and a more contemporary line of thinking.

We all know that there really are people out there with new equipment that think they know what they are doing. That is a real concept. I think that Bart's comments were not directed at professional photographers delivering a quality product. I was at a convention 2 years ago and a local photographer wanted to take a picture with her camera. She asked me to set the camera so she could photograph in manual mode. She didn't even know how to take the camera off of program.

Sorry to vent but I felt that the vibe on this thread was negative. I actually agree with you David and I think that your most important comment was "Ok...listen...but act on what you see" Now that has meat to it.

I agree DJ.

What they say they want and what they actually want are two different things.

I'm getting my feet wet by shooting events at my church to build my portfolio.

I always shoot the old school formal shots, but the clients end up loving the art/pj/editorial stuff that I shoot for myself.

They're watching Bridezilla, reading InStyle, and looking at great sites like davidjay.com.