I'm in the process of finishing my BluDomain site...so EXCITING! And I just wanted to finalize my package prices with everyone. Could you guys give me some advice and make sure these look O.K. to you?

package A. $340
- 1 to 2 hours of shooting time
- 25 to 50 online proofs for ordering
- $100 print credit
- 28 page, 7x7 stich-bound album
- digital negatives on DVD (approx. 25-50)

package B. $270
- 1 to 2 hours of shooting time
- 25 to 50 online proofs for ordering
- $75 print credit
- 12 page 7x7 stitch-bound album

package C. $150
- 1 to 2 hours of shooting time
- 25 to 50 online proofs for ordering
- $50 print credit

I checked out your blog....I think you are underselling yourself. You have great work and could charge much more.

I agree. You are undercharging by a LONG SHOT.

If Package A didn't include the negs and didn't include the book, now you're talking. Books take much longer to design (and take changes) than you think, and they take away from other things you could be doing, and they prevent people from buying prints. PLUS, you're giving away the negs AND giving a $100 print credit. Don't expect to make a dime off selling prints. (When people get a book included in their packages, they tend to not buy very many prints.)

By the time all is said and done with this package, you would have made about $50 for your time.

I didn't look at the other packages because I was so shocked by Package A. Sorry.

+1 to everything above. I bet package C could be double the price of package A or more.

diddo!

Hi Jamie,
I agree that you are grossly underselling yourself. I would avoid giving away digital files of portrait sessions altogether. In order to really make money in the portrait business, you really have to do this based on print and album sales. I would eliminate the books in the packages and maybe just do a small credit with each one (if at all). I think your work is great and you can definitely charge more than you are.

Wow, thank you so much for all your comments! Thing is I'm actually still in high school. I know I keep hearing on OSP don't undersell yourself, don't undersell yourself and I totally believe it when it comes to weddings. But I just can't see myself getting the "few" clients I need to get my business rolling if I raise my prices!

Would it be O.K. to keep these prices for the first three or four paid clients and them maybe make a 40% increase?

package A. $340
- 1 to 2 hours of shooting time
- 25 to 50 online proofs for ordering
- $100 print credit
- 28 page, 7x7 stich-bound album
- digital negatives on DVD (approx. 25-50)

100 print credit costs me about 25 dollars.
album costs me about 60.

which means including shooting + editing + design time (approx. 15 hours)? I'm still making $17 an hour.

I feel like I can't charge more than this in my market right now, seen as I've only had ONE paying client (and she only paid for the album! not the session--family friend). $17/hour is sounding awful good to me right now when my part-time job is minimum wage. But I definitely have loved all your advice and I want it to keep coming. But I can't justify just raising my prices right out of the gate in fear of few clients coming my way this summer!!

You're better off, in my opinion, to start high & offer discounts than you are to start low and raise the prices.

You definitely need to charge more! Start raising them slowly, but I am sure you will not turn off clients! All they have to do is look at your work!

WOW your work is outstanding. I think that just like the others have stated, you are undercharging for your work.

I think for the dvd or cd of images, you charge a flat rate for those images if people want them. Jen and I charge for a dvd of the images $150.00 and the clients can do whatever they want with them at that point.

Do you have a rate for a deposit or retainer for the clients to either hold their time and date for the shoot? We do a 75.00 retainer upfront when they sign a contract with us so at least if they sign up for you but then back out then thats a little bit for you instead of nothing. Anyway I hope that this helps some. Great work though.

Stewart C.

I agree with all the above - you are way underselling yourself, even if you are still in high school. Wonderful work!!!

My suggestion would be to raise your prices significantly, to where you feel comfortable having them, and then offering huge discounts. You have a higher price, which creates value, which will cause more folks to have you photograph them. By doing it this way, you have nothing to lose.

-Jeff

Wow, I can't believe this! Thank you so much for all the wonderful compliments and advice.

package A. $450
- 1 to 2 hours of shooting time
- 25 to 50 online proofs for ordering
- $100 print credit
- 28 page, 7x7 stich-bound album
- digital negatives on DVD (approx. 25-50)

package B. $300
- 1 to 2 hours of shooting time
- 25 to 50 online proofs for ordering
- $75 print credit
- 12 page 7x7 stitch-bound album

package C. $150
- 1 to 2 hours of shooting time
- 25 to 50 online proofs for ordering
- $50 print credit

Do these look alright? I didn't change package C right now because I'd like to have my name "out there" and I think 150 is the maximum that package could be right now. Honestly, everybody I know takes their kids/teens to Wal-Mart for 39 dollar portraits. 150 is a big jump from there...

I like the idea of the discounts. Offer 10% off for the first 2 months of business or something?

Jamie - you do great work - I love your logo and blog!

I still think this is too little. You have to remember that we take alot of time from the shoot, to editing, to making the online proofs, to the galleries, and all of that, you have to say to yourself is what I am charging worth all the time I put into it? Jen and I went through a time to where we were trying to figure out what to charge for our business. At first we charged really low and we got clients for sure but all the time and effort we put into it wasn't making much in the end so we gradually raised our prices and now we can see the rewards to the time we put into it. The money is never what we focus on and if it gets to that point with Jen and I then thats when we close up shop. We love the business and have such a passion for it, that yes, the money is great, but the reaction, and the fact when you see and or hear a client say " The pictures are so amazing" or " We cried when we watched the slideshow" or heres a actual quote that a client left us last week. This is what makes the business so fun and desirable. Hope this helps a little.

"I just wanted to take the time to thank you again. I knew you were talented but the pictures are so much more than I expected. They are gorgeous!!! I think I cried several times and had to replay the slideshow to see everything. I want you to be the one that takes my girls' pictures for the rest of their lives. I am ecstatic for Father's day and after seeing the photos it is going to be soooo hard not to show my husband. Thanks again and I look so forward to working with you again. Jenn"


Stewart C.

I'd say to start high, and offer HUGE discounts. Let people know that you are giving them an amazing deal to start out with you while you are trying to get established and that it's your pleasure to do so, but that way, when they are satisfied and you are raising your prices, they will pretty much expect it.

I would also work really hard not to let your age come into play. I'm 25 and married and still have people come to me and look at me like I'm 14. The "gee, you're the owner of this place, you sure are young" If you set up early that yup, you are young, talented, and up and coming... "get in while you can, it'll be to your advantage" your clients will follow you as you grow and be happy to take the journey with you.

Blow 'em out of the water

Thanks Erin

package A. $500
- 1 to 2 hours of shooting time
- 25 to 50 online proofs for ordering
- $100 print credit
- 28 page, 7x7 stich-bound album
- digital negatives on DVD (approx. 25-50)

package B. $375
- 1 to 2 hours of shooting time
- 25 to 50 online proofs for ordering
- $75 print credit
- 12 page 7x7 stitch-bound album

package C. $200
- 1 to 2 hours of shooting time
- 25 to 50 online proofs for ordering
- $50 print credit

I think this is it! I'm working on some BluDomain issues (SHEESH, who knew colors could be so difficult? So frustrating) and then we'll go live in a week or so. So thrilled about this. It's so neat to be able to start doing what you want to do for the rest of your life when you have barely begun it!!

I strongly agree about not including the digital files for portraits. Portraits are very different from weddings. Our business is primarily portraits, and it is very very rare that anyone asks to purchase the digital files (honestly, the main time that we get that request is when we do youth sporting events, and those parents usually ask if they can just have it, they don't want to pay for anything). The only exception to this is for headshots, we include the digital image with them, but they are priced differently. Don't underestimate how much people will choose to spend on prints! You may really damage your businesses potential in the long run if you include the disc. Once you have started offering it, it will be expected.

I have a totally different perspective on how to price for portraits then most people on OSP have. We charge a very minimal session fee, $49 (or $75 if it is more than a certain number of people or if it is further than 3 miles away) and we make our income on the print sales. We are confident that our customers will want to purchase the photos, and they do. The reason we have chosen this route is that most people do not want to commit a large amount of money before they see the results. Even if they have seen our samples or heard about us from friends, most middle class to upper class people do hesitate to spend before they see the results. This has worked very successfully for us. It has allowed us to build a good clientele over the past three years that is primarily based on referrals. We do a few weddings, but most of our business is portrait. This is our sole income to support our family of 5. Our customers are primarily professionals, such as doctors, lawyers, dentists, accountants, engineers, etc. We get comments from our customers all the time about how they would never go to a photographer that charges a high up front fee. We also get that comment from high school senior parents a lot. These same customers do not hesitate at all to spend a lot once they see the images. Just some food for thought.

Alright, something to think about for sure...

I agree - no digital negatives for portrait sessions. If they want to buy them, charge separately, or allow purchases of one file at a time.

Also, after taking the negs out of all the packages, take the books out too. I used to offer books just like you do and here's the thing: a book at the price you're paying is a DISPOSABLE book. But we are creating heirloom images. If you're going to offer a book, make it a hard cover GOOD QUALITY book, like an Asuka, and stress to your clients that what they'll be getting is an heirloom book. It's a separate thing they can choose to buy AFTER seeing their proofs. Charge for the book is 3 times what you pay for it. (Something around $300 on top of any session fees.)

If you give away the books (and you are), they won't buy NEARLY as many prints as they might have. So, let's say the book costs you $60, and they get a book with all the good images in it. That's, let's say, 30 images they are not now going to BUY from you. Book now costs you $100 or something. See where I'm going?

I'm only saying all this because my NEW clients saw my OLD clients books and loved them, and I'm not offering those disposable books anymore. It's really hard to get new clients to appreciate CHANGES in packages and prices. New clients ALL come from OLD client referrals.

I agree with previous posters: no negs, no books, offer a print credit, and discount the session fees until you get established. Perceived value is um, very VALUABLE!

P.S. DOESN'T matter that you're still in high school. I would have never guessed that. Your images don't give you away!

No, the book I am offering is a Stich-Bound Asuka. But I get what your saying, raise your prices! I'll try, I'll try!!

But if I'm not offering albums in my packages what else do I offer?! Could somebody just put me outta my misery and make up some packages according to my original ones? Just tweak them? Because I'm running out of ideas.

Jamie... just have confidence. You rock the house and your images are second-to-none.

It took me a while to figure this out too, but people VALUE the higher price. They honestly do. You can and will give them everything they've wanted and more.

Primarily from portraits sessions people want portraits: for the wall, to give to family. We offer books and other stuff, but they really aren't the main thing that sells. The main thing we have added on other than the prints themselves that sell is framing. They love getting their enlargements all framed up and ready to hang.

High school seniors want lots and lots of wallets.

+1

Framed prints and gallery wrap canvas prints are big sellers.

I rarely have anyone ask for the digital negatives. I don't even list them on my pricing but if someone asks (and it's usually at the holidays for their holiday cards), I sell them the one file they are asking for @ $50 each. I also don't allow them to use their print credit towards purchase of the digitial files (because the print credit is for PRINTS!).

Good luck!

-Jessica

Plus, I've even had some clients who just plain didn't want the book. Previous posters are right: they want prints to frame. Some want books TOO, but mostly, they want prints for their albums, prints to send to grandma, prints to stick in their wallet. The ones who WANT a book will pay big money for it and you'll actually be PAID for the time it's taking you to design it.

Almost all of my clients end up purchasing greeting cards too, custom designed by me, and they send them out to 100 people or so, spreading my name like wildfire. So if you're going to spend time designing something, make sure you either get paid for your talent and skill in designing it, OR that it serves as a great marketing tool. Ideally, both will happen, as is the case with my greeting cards. Where do books end up? A lot of the time, they end up in a drawer or just sitting on a table or on a bookshelf.

I'm not saying books are bad. On the contrary, they are a great marketing tool and product to offer, but only if your client LOVES LOVES LOVES it and shows it everywhere she goes.

So, stick to your original pricing plan, and just take out the negs and the books and that's a good print credit. They can always use the print credit towards a book (and you'll sell the books for $300 at least). One more thing: make it a hard cover book. I'm not sure what "stitch bound" means. Maybe it is hard cover, I'm not sure, but whatever you do, an album HAS to be a hard cover book. (Soft cover=disposable, and clients know it.)

Just my .02 of course.

Oh my goodness girl!! I hope you take the advice of everyone who has told you to raise your prices. Being in highschool is nothing of consequence. You take great pictures. Charge for it!!!!

Girlie your work will sell itself. You take such amazing photos, word of mouth will fly for you. I only hope for the best for you and you will figure everything out, it will just all fall into place for you.

I haven't ready every post... I got about half way through, but I wanted to add another note saying don't include the digital negatives in the package, at least not that cheap.

I do think you should DEFINITELY offer the digital negatives as an option on the side... do the math, figure out what you think you should make in print sales for your average shoot and charge AT LEAST that amount for your digital negatives.

Wow... and I would have NEVER guessed you were in high school... my pictures SUCKED in high school (though I gotta say, I thought I was pretty good at the time) ;-)

You're gonna be freaking rocking this business!!! (are you planning on going to school for photography?)

Aw I love you guys!! I just got off a 7 1/2 hour shift at my minimum wage job. ick! I'd SO rather be working on my photography part-time right now!! Soon, soon!

Your comments mean the WORLD to me and this has been nothing but a help and a god-send!! I do not know where I would be without OSP. Did that just rhyme?

Seriously, a year ago, I knew nothing about photography but pointing and shooting and now, hugely thanks to OSP, I know about marketing, pricing, albums, print prices, and a whole lotta other techniques.

Much lovee!!

I graduate next year (hallelujah!) and I plan to get my 4-year business degree in marketing/entrepreneurship.

That's perfect. PERFECT! Add a 1-year "internship" (sometime around your junior year) to do the Timco Tour and you'll be making your own photography college. If mom and dad have a problem with this, I would imagine that a ton of highly successful OSP photogs would write letters in support of this plan for you.

I agree with all who've posted: charge more, don't give away the farm, offer steep discounts to the first clients and don't include the negs. You're terrific!


I just teared up and got warm-fuzzies when I read that. Jules, you're swell. OSP rocks!

What's the TimCo tour? Just travel EVERYWHERE and be around other talented photographers as much as I can?

Totally down for that

OSP rocks beyond explainability!

I just looked up your birthday! OMG YOU ARE ONLY 16?! Am I reading that right? WOW...just WOW.

Haha yup 16. How sad! I feel so young and I hate it! Things are looking up; I can drive by myself in 3 weeks and turn 17 in 7 weeks!

16? OH MY GOSH!!! Girlie, you will do great in this industry!!!

Stewart C.

What???

That makes me sick and happy at the same time.

Sick...because you are so good at such a young age.

Happy...becuase you have a great future in photography ahead of you!

Love your new logo BTW.

Jamie - have you seen the packages that Carey (Barefoot Memories) does? I like her pricing plan - it's simply and to the point. I'll see if I an dig up the thread where she was talking about raising her prices (and being unsure), but, personally (and this is coming from another *relative* youngin') I think simpler is better when it comes to these things (she basically has a "basic" package and then mini-sessions which she books on weekend mornings, which are shorter than the basics she offers at other times. I can't remember if there is product involved, but again, I'll try to dig it up..). Spend your time on the good stuff, ya know? Get paid for your time, and then go from there.

okay - here's where I found it - basically, yes, a basic package and then mini, shorter sessions. She includes CDs with the packages...that's up to you, really, but definitely make sure you're factoring that in! And have a personal copyright release that only allows people to do certain things (ie, don't give away your pics). You're an awesome photographer, so don't let anyone tell you that your age is, or should be, an issue.

http://www.opensourcephoto.net/forum/index...showtopic=11269

Jamie. Babe. You are selling yourself so short. I'm an oldster at 27 so I'm going to give you two bits of advice.

First, high schoolers can accomplish amazing professional results even though they're still in high school. When I was 16, I started handling show dogs professionally. I was going to national specialty shows and raking in pretty good cash before I graduated. If you have the skill, the talent, and the drive to present yourself as a professional (and you DO have all of those things, HOLY COW, girl, you are amazing!), and if you're mature enough to take your work seriously as any professional should, then don't sell yourself short just because you think your age lends you some kind of un-credibility. The clients who will really matter to your future career will see past your age and look only at what you can do for them. So who cares that you're 16? (Almost 17!) You obviously know how to use a camera and you have the drive to make it in this game. Age is irrelevant at this point.

Second, raising your prices actually WILL bring in more clients. I know that sounds totally nuts. But clients do sort of "sort" their choices based on price before they begin contacting photographers. The clients you'll WANT to work for, who will treat you well and respect your talent and your professionalism, won't even look at a photographer priced in your range. Their assumption will be, based on their experiences in browsing web sites and in hearing from other people who've shopped around, that you're charging so little because you know your quality isn't up to snuff.

You are way up to snuff, so charge like you are. Your clients will increase, not decrease. It's crazy, but it really works. Obviously, there is a limit to how much you can push this little bit of psychology. I mean, only a couple of photographers in the world can get away with charging $20,000 for a portrait session. But you can and should charge more than you are now, because YOUR WORK IS WORTH IT. Age schmage, you have the know-how to make good photos, and you should get paid FAIRLY for your time!

Also, the more super-low-budget clients you attract, the more frustrated you will become with your clients. In my experience, the lower end = more bargaining and haggling, not less. Most people who shop by price are just looking to see how much stuff they can get out of you for the smallest amount of money - they are not looking to see what kind of quality is out there, and they are usually not willing to pay fairly for quality. If you price yourself in a more photographer-friendly range, you will not burn out on this business, and we'd all hate to see you burn out with such awesome talent (even though you'll probably be "stealing" all our clients in about a year ).

So, seriously. More confidence! You ROCK. You deserve more money for rocking so hard.

I'm just soaking in all of this advice like a sponge. I just had the sweetest PM from another OSP member and I can't repeat enough how much I appreciate all of this!

I keep hearing to RAISE MY PRICES. Got it. Check. But how far? I really need a guide here.

Package A: $500
1-2 hours shooting time
25-50 final proofs for online ordering
$300 print credit

Package B: $400
1-2 hours shooting time
25-50 final proofs for online ordering
$175 print credit

Package C: $200
1-2 hours shooting time
25-50 final proofs for online ordering
$75 print credit

Still too low? Help me out

Oh: another great way to help out, find me somebody in the Vancouver area who needs a 2nd shooter!

Jamie, what are your print prices?

Good question. Now these may sound low as well, but I'm thinking

4x6 = $10
5x7 = $15
8x10 = $25
11x14 = $50
8 wallets = $15

anything bigger I'll figure out when contacted.

I think that your right on track with these prices. Great job.

Stewart C.

I agree. Your sitting fee looks good to me, and the print credits in relation to your print prices look good, too.

Yay!

Great!