Hi Everyone,

I'm Bob Davis, Bella Pictures Chief Photographer. I'm sure most of you are busy shooting; the heat of the wedding season is upon us. We are the first national wedding photography company. We are values based and we operate like a photo agency, a different kind of photo agency that is photographer friendly.

“Bella Pictures is on track for amazing growth in 2008! That means we’ll have plenty of assignments for photographers who want to pick up extra work. Some of our growing markets include: Jacksonville and Palm Beach, FL, Pittsburgh, PA, and Columbus and Cincinnati, OH. If you’re a photographer in one of these areas, apply and get started in our certification program this summer!”

Keep in mind; if you have any open dates you'd like to fill, we may have some shooting opportunities. So check us out at the link below.

www.bellapictures.com/photographer.php?r=8057

Please feel free to contact me with any questions.
email: robertd@bellapictures.com
phone: 312-719-3577
www.bellapictures.com

With all due respect to you, Bob...you're an amazing photographer whom I respect a lot lot lot...I have to offer an alternate viewpoint.

If you (you being photographers in markets that Bella is moving into) want to fill open dates all the while build your own brand, wouldn't it be better for you to get out and extend your product line beyond weddings so that more people are exposed to you the local artist rather than you the local (but anonymous) artist working for a national photography company.

Or, wouldn't a better payoff for wedding photographers with open dates be...to go second shoot for your friendly-but-local competition? I mean...go 2nd shoot for your friend and then they can 2nd shoot for you in trade. Then, build your referral network among the people you 2nd shoot with and for -- think about it -- do you think Bella will refer brides to you (ALL of you) for dates that they are booked...or do you think Bella will bring in non-local talent to compete with you for that bride?

I realize I'm just the little guy (and that's probably the first time since I was 4 that I could say that...he-he-he) and it's going to be hard for the little guys to compete with much more sufficiently capitalized mega-monster-companies like Bella...but I have to ponder how feeding the Bella machine is going to be a win-win for someone trying to build their own small business.

Bob, are a tremendous asset to our industry (as is your lovely wife Dawn)...but I can't help but wonder if your affiliation with Bella is analagous to losing Anikan to the dark side...if you know what I mean.

Fly me in from St. Louis and Id be happy to fill in dates. (Sorry Dan, I need the money).

That's kinda what concerns me, Jenny. You're one of the best persons who has ever second shot for me (and I'm sure others on this board who've seen your stuff would concur that you are a phenomenal photographer). You could be charging well above market rates in our sleepy little town if you can get a solid business and marketing plan together as well as get a nice dose of believing in yourself that you can be one of the best of the best. Why would someone like you -- who could easily charge more than what Bella charges -- sell yourself short and work for someone else? Fill your open dates building your brand and networking...don't you think that will pay off much more handsomely in the long run than making a couple hundred bucks working for Bella and building their brand?

If I was an equity investor...I'd probably look in to a company like Bella ('cuz Wal-Mart claimed, and still does under their Sam's brand name, that they are small business friendly...and it seems to work for their market share, no?)...but, on the other side of the street, I'd be VERY nervous if I were a small studio in a city where Bella was launching.

Just my 2 cents...overpriced at free...

I must say that Bella Pictures is just another alternative for brides and photographers. We are not a fit for everyone, brides and photographers included. We are a values based, photographer friendly, place for photographers to earn extra money while still pursuing their own brand. We allow all of our photographers to use the images they create for Bella to build and promote their own brand. I hope photographers shoot for us, fill out their calendar, work with some of the best shooters in the country then go onto to great success on their own. It sounds like Bella is not a fit for you Dan.

I wish you the best and much success.

Regards,

Bob

You're probably right. And I wish you the best and much success, too, Bob. (As long as Bella is NIMBY, taking market share away from me and my friends... ...then it won't be so photographer friendly anymore, knowutImean?)

Viva the little guy!! \o/

hello, just curious...i know there are some ospers who've had some experience with bella...

does anyone here have any insight into what happens to your WOM pool if you do this kind of thing? ie...do the brides who book you outright ever run into the brides who book through bella, and how does that affect their opinion?

since you don't edit or sell your images directly, would mistakes or issues with bella customer service affect your positive WOM? (since many clients aren't likely to separate the two companies)

if brides pay less to get you through bella, does that affect your repuation (assuming the two wom pools collide in some way)?

what kind of brides normally book through bella? do you find you have a harder time shooting the wedding, since you haven't done your normal pre-wedding e-shoot or whatever that normally creates a bond?

sounds like a nifty thing to do for some extra cash if you have the time...but i'd love to know if anyone has some first hand experience on how it affects your client reputaion, WOM pool, etc. anyone?

Dan -- don't read this!

I am in the middle of the Bella certification. I have 2 of 4 weddings completed. I shot two last weekend. My next one is this Saturday and I have my last scheduled one on the following Saturday.

The first wedding was a laid back wedding. It didn't seem that the bride/groom was much into pictures. Later on in the ceremony, I started to get a connection with the bride and we did a little creative stuff. While it was fun, it seemed more work than fun. I was thinking after that wedding that Bella wasn't for me. Part of the issue on this wedding was probably my fault. I was pretty laid back as this was my 1st Bella wedding and I was still figuring things out. I should have been more engaging with the couple up front.

The second wedding. Bride and groom definitely into pictures. They were a dream couple! Both great looking actors and loved to ham it up for the camera. Killer portfolio couple! Killer shots. This wedding was nothing but pure fun and I felt like (Bob don't read this) I was stealing Bella's money on this one. Didn't take long to make a strong connection with this couple, especially the bride. I was on an adrenaline high the whole wedding!

At both weddings, the photographers I was paired with ROCKED!!! Extremely talented. We got to know each other quickly and they are very talented and we had a great time together. I would love to shoot with these guys again.

I will have a much better feel for this after I shoot the next two weddings, but at this point I think the pluses far outweigh the negatives for me.

Pluses for me are:

+ Shoot with awesome photographers who generously give out awesome advice. Excellent learning experience.
+ Photographer coach is like a free teacher!
+ Only need to shoot which is the fun stuff! No dealing with clients before/after wedding.
+ Educational stuff on their website is like a free class
+ Can pick and choose my shooting assignments -- not tied into any commitment
+ More experience to hone and sharpen my skills.

At this point, I no insight to WOM. I don't expect it to affect me one way or another. I don't expect the client pools to mingle, however, should they do, I believe the added value I provide to my clients more than compensate for price differential. I also shoot for bella out of my primary market area.

So at this point in time, I think Bella rocks for me and I hope Bella thinks I rock for them. Of course, should I fail the certification, I will have a different opinion !

Dan!!! I love it when you use big words that I have to look up on wikipedia! I will be sure to have Regis give you a back rub in Florida next week!

Great Post.

Thanks Jim. I've been thinking a lot about bella recently and am on the fence as well, although the whole 'building your own brand' and client referral base is heavily influencing my decision.

I think Bella is a very well done company who is not in it solely for the ca$h and they have a few things right.

I'll post more later.

Hi Bob,

I live in HUdson County, New Jersey. I'm not sure if you branch out here, but I'd like to get some more info on possibly working with you.


John

Did you come to the Hallmark Institue this week? I was unable to attend...

Hi Jim,

This is the type of experience I hope all photographers who choose to work with Bella have.......

Rock on Jim. And yes it's cool to feel like you are stealing money. That's the way it should feel when you follow your passion.

Thanks Jim for joining Bella.

Keep moving forward.

Bobby D.

Hi Jillian,

From the experience our photographers tell me, it has helped them by shooting fro Bella. If a bride asks here are some of the facts. At Bella they cannot request specific photographers and they would not receive your personal touch throughout the entire wedding process. Bella takes the team approach, we have sales people who love to sell, IT people manage the files, customer service department, which is second to none to assure the best possible customer satisfaction, some of the worlds best photographers doing what they enjoy best, making great pictures and designers who love to create albums. So everybody does what they enjoy and creates a winning environment. When a bride loves you and wants to work directly with you then that bride should book her wedding with you directly and not go with Bella Pictures.

Please feel free to contact with any questions or concerns.

Thanks for your interest,

Bobby D.




Hi John,

I'm not sure where that is in relation to major cities in NJ, but feel free to learn more about Bella at the following link and if it it feels like a fit please apply. There is no down side to applying.

www.bellapictures.com/photographer.php?r=8058

Thanks for your interest.

Bobby D.




Yes, its' a great place! Check out the link for more detailed info about Bella, who we are and how we work.

www.bellapictures.com/photographer.php?r=8058

Bobby D

Jim -- glad it's working out for you. Bella's lucky to have you...you couldn't afford your gear on a Bella paycheck alone!

Hmmm...well, since I have an MBA...and a few other skills besides photography...I might teach a class on how NOT to compete with Bella.

Anyone who sat in on the last 5 minutes of my talk at PartnerCon LA last year...knows I know a little about competitive analysis. I know at least *TWO* of you who got it.

Let's here some more feedback from others...what do you think about Bella? Noobs and curmudgeons, too...bring it on!

Oh, and on the topic of stealing money...imagine this scenario...

You are competing for a bride with two other photographers -- let's call one of them "E" -- he charges more than you do. The other photographer the bride is considering is the company that "E" moonlights for -- we'll call them "T" photo...they charge LESS than both you and "E." The bride REALLY wanted to book you...but she found out she could get "E" for less by booking "T" photo (and since she knows "E" isn't booked that date...there is a chance she can get him for a lot less).

"T" gets paid. "E" gets paid. You get nothing.

Do you feel cheated by this, or not? Would you be tempted to compete with "E" by also moonlighting for "T"?

(BTW -- St. Louisans -- pretend you don't know what, or who, I'm talking about! )

I joined up with Bella for the same reasons Jim did. When Bob called me to interview me he told me he would critique my weddings I shot for them and teach me how to get better. Free teacher, just like Jim said. Who wouldn't want Bob teaching you how to be a better photographer? The money is a side note for me. The teaching is priceless.

I have my first e-session next weekend for Bella. I am traveling down to Myrtle Beach, SC to do a beach sesh. I have already been in touch with the bride and she is very excited about having us come down for this shoot. Bella doesn't hide the fact that thier photographers have thier own businesses. The bride knew who we were and had looked at our site before I even made contact to her. I am looking forward to my first shoot with Bella.

So is Bella more like a referral source for you? Can you pass out your own business cards when you're working a Bella gig?

(BTW -- Bob, you can thank me later for all the bumps I'm giving Bella! LOL)

I'd be interested in shooting for Bella however my second body (nikon d2h) is not on the approved list of equipment. If I had a canon 10d it would be alright though. That dosen't make alot of sense.

No, I would never consider Bella a referral source for me. I haven't really thought if I would give out business cards or not. I would probably give a card to the bride, but I wouldn't hand them to guests at weddings or anything. That would be tacky. If a bride knew who I was, had a freind that was getting married and LOVED how her wedding was shot, and Bella couldn't guarentee me to be thier wedding photographer, that person may hire me directly and not Bella. I would never expect to be allowed to solicit for my company while I worked for them though. Just as I wouldn't if I was second shooting for you Dan. It would be the same respect.

Hi Bobby,

Serious question... please forgive me if it comes out as crass. I don't want it to be that way...

Is there a good reason I should consider working for your company, when you guys have the first google ad word pop when when someone searches for me by name (personal name, not even the business form with "photography" in the search field)?

I'm happy to compete with you in Google word on the generic terms such as "Wedding Photographer" or even "Grumpy Old Fart Photojournalist" (I'm definately one of those!)

But it doesn't make a good impression on those you're trying to hire when you grab and Ad-word aimed directely at them to compete directly against them.

Sorry if I'm not phrasing this very politic. I'm grumping with one of our local guild member photogs doing the same thing to many of us in this area.

Click to view attachment

Hi Troy,

That's a bit out of my scope, but I have the general idea of how this works. It has something to do with meta tags and anything to do with wedding photography Bella has paid to come up in the top of that search. I'm sorry if this offends you, but its the way the meta tag system works, something like that. As I said, I'm sure how the web search stuff works.

Hey I used to work with a lot of those grumpy old fart photojournalists at the Chicago Sun-Times. I know a few of them who moved on to greener papers across the country and now are born again photojournalists excited about shooting weddings. Heck Chris Wilkins at the Dallas Morning News would qualify, but is happy to shoot weddings and many have built their own awesome brands too. There is new life left in those old dogs.....

Peace,

Bobby D.

Not knocking Bella here, but.. there's probably a VERY good change that Bobby D. is not the one who will be critiquing your pictures and an even better chance that it will be one of their staffers who are slated as photo teachers for the photogs.

Yep... We've got a local photographer here who has lost all respect amongst his peers for copying Bella on this tactic. His only response is "Trademark your name if you don't like it."

Great way to win friends.

You are right! As much as I would love to be able to offer my feedback to everyone, it's just not possible. We have hired some of the most talented photographers in the country whom I consult for feedback and I trust them. All of our photographers including myself went through the certification process, there is no downside. If you fell Bella Pictures is right for you, please apply. If not, then keep on keeping on.

I wish the most success for everyone.

Bob

I'm going to include my $0.02 with my experience with Bella. My very first weddings were shot with Bella about two years ago, and last year I shot with them a lot.

The things I liked about them were that

#1 I got a lot of shooting experience, while being paid a lot more than I would as a second shooter for another photographer

#2 I could use all my images in anyway that I wanted to promote myself in the future, at the time ALL my website pictures were from Bella weddings.. this has led to connections for me with venues, coordinators, and referrals to My business from brides I worked with at Bella

#3 It's only one day of work, and very flexible.. if I have a particular date available I'll still shoot with them, if not I wont.

Things I don't like about them:

#1 Particularly as of recent I don't get responses to my phone calls and/or emails. This is very frustrating, and problematic obviously for a variety of reasons. For example I recently had a wedding where I was given no contact info for the bride/groom and no locations for the wedding, and no one would return my calls to give me this info until THE DAY BEFORE the wedding. bad stuff!!!

#2 I prefer to do travel weddings as it pays more, but some of the travel agents they use are terrible (this isn't really their fault but sucks none the less)

#3 Lastly and most importantly, they show future clients my work that is unedited and unretouched. And that just sucks. I want my name only attached to my good work of course

Ashley,

I remember working with you at the Bella workshop way back when.

I agree with your concerns. PLEASE next time if you don't hear back from someone in a timely manner contact me directly. I'm always here and usually return emails and phone calls in 24 hours. You should never be on assignment without complete contact information. Things like this do happen, I'm sorry for any frustration this may have caused. Next time CONTACT me.

As for your concern of showing un-retouched images. That's no a bad thing. I remember a string by my mentor and close friend Joe Buissink, "Show me what you can get in camera"? This is Bella's style and approach. Not much fuzzy and photoshop actions on our part. Our brides love the images our photographers create. Remember Bella would not show anything that would cause a bride go EEK. I know we as photographers sometimes feel we must work every image, but I truly believe in the integrity of the image straight out of camera. As you pointed out you can tweak your images to your style, but that's not Bella's style.

I love your work! So keep on shooting....

Regards,

Bob

Hi Troy,

I think what Bobby is saying is that Bella pays Google to show their link when, in Google's estimation, the search term has something to do with wedding photography. I don't think they're paying google to pop up their ad when someone searches for "Troy Hill". The latter would be a little creepy, but the former makes sense in my book.

Am I missing something here?

-TM

There's a small town outside of Pittsburgh with the name "Troy Hill"

I'm above them in the search page.

So I don't know.

We definately have a local photog using other folks names as his ad-words... and Bella is the excuse.

Hi Troy,

Are you so famous that Bella would go to the trouble to pay Google to attach themselves to your name specifically? They appear on a search for "wedding photography" and "wedding photographer" also.

Then again, they don't appear for "Yervant", "David Jay", or "Mike Colon". Odd....

I guess you could call Google and ask them if they do ads based on the implicit subject of the terms searched.

So you're saying that a local dude bought Google ads on "Troy Hill"?

-TM

Hey Troy,

I really think the Bella bride is different than the type of bride we'd be booking on our own anyway. The ones who *need* the personal touch are going to be looking for personalized service from start to finish with you.

You know my financial situation, and for me it makes sense to get on board with Bella until I am in a better place financially. On top of that, I feel like it's a good way to meet the other wedding professionals in the community on a different level than just by going to the PWG luncheons.

Here's a slideshow from my first pre-qualifying Bella wedding: http://www.lifespringphotography.com/slide.../LauraLars_wed/

If you want me to shoot for Troy Hill Photography, I'll do that too! I'm an equal opportunity photo-stitute!

Leann

Hi Leann,

No problem with any of the people at Bella, or who photograph for Bella.! Love you all!

Just don't like to find out that a business would specifically target another small business by NAME via ad-words or a marketing campaign on the web. (If Bella isn't using photog names, then how the heck are they popping up on almost every photographer name's search pages? -- That's one heck of a marketing gimmick that Google has.)

I'm happy if we all keep our marketing to buying ad words for our "generic" terms such as "Wedding Photojournalist", or "Greatest Darn Wedding Photographer on the face of the Earth" or "Photographer with most creative use of a Fong..."

It feels kind of like Bella, (and the other local yeahooo) is standing outside of my front door, giving their info to everyone who comes looking for me.

Some folks have run off, and got their ad words set to pop up if anyone searches for "Bella" or for the other yeahoo's name.

As for me, I took the opposite route, and pulled ALL of my ad words from Google. I'll let character and actions speak for me.

Sorry to vent. I could have lived with the Bella version of this, but now that it's influencing others to copy the marketing scheme, I'm not happy.

Actually, that's not how it works. Google doesn't parse meta data out of the search results, it only looks at the words being searched for.

If you show up when someone searches for "Troy Hill" it's because you paid for the keywords/phrases "Troy", "Hill" or "Troy Hill"

If that's true, then that's really sad.

-TM

I understand that, but it's too bad. I am looking forward to my first shoot with Bella this weekend. Unfortunately though, I will be unable to do a lot of shooting for Bella. God has blessed me beyond my expectations with weddings this year. I will not have time to do any shooting for Bella! Not because I don't want to, I simply don't have time.

Hey Dan,

Don't go look out into your back yard.....Bella is all ready here.

Go to www.bridesclub.com, click on Missouri/St. Louis, then Photography. Walla - Bella!

I'm sure they have a national listing though, but it would be interesting to see, or know, who many weddings they've done in St. Louis market.

Hey so what does Bella pay to shoot a full day wedding as a primary and / or secondary shooter
around us we have "the pros" and celebration studios who are exactly like bella. I know alot of people who shoot for them and they seem to like it, they must pay pretty well

I'm not sure they would publicize this info, but since I know I might as well let the cat outta the bag. My offer was for $325 for a day's shooting - and then that might go up after pre-certification. I don't know, that's pretty low.... I'm not sure how negotiable that amount is. I might suggest that they move to an hourly rate - that seems more feasable to me.

When I talked with Bella I was told that you needed to be pre-certified and the rate depended upon your current experience and the strength of your portfolio. I was quoted $350 for the pre-ceritification wedding. I was also told that some photogs need to shoot a couple (or more) weddings for pre-certification and others needed to only shoot 1...

But after you're certified, your rate pretty much doubles depending on the assignment and then goes up from there. I was told (sorry Bob if this info is supposed to be classified) that my rate for wedds would be around $1k on average.

Needless to say, I am not shooting for Bella.
The concept is interesting and it is obviously a successful market - but I did not want to devalue my 'brand'/image. And if worse comes to worse, I can make more than that shooting a "hit 'n' run" wedding, so it wasn't attractive for me.

I have toyed with the idea of shooting in order to fill in my dead dates (winter dates) - but again, I can lower my rate if I need to. But I would rather just have those times off anyway.

Bella is a great option for some - but it wasn't for me.

Hey John, I have been stalking your work, its FANTASTICK! You absolutly should never even consider shooting for someone else. Your albums are pas none too. No reason to give up that control. In every town there are brides who NEED the special treatmtent we all give and there are those who really just shrug it off for price. I don't see Bella stealing a market share for most of the great photographers on this board. And it WILL devalue your own brand/image to do both.

I am assuming you're talking to me - (there are like 3 "Johns" in this thread hahah!) But if you are referring to me, then woah - thanks! If not then I am totally embarrassed.


Either way I agree with you - giving up control is something I cannot do, I am too passionate about what I do to allow someone else control over my work. I used to fight with a really good friend of mine (he got me started in portrait photography) about the control factor.
He's a shoot to burn photographer - and would hand over the images w/o any enhancement whatsoever... and they ALL needed it! After 7 years of fighting, he's finally turning around.

But I did pass Bella's info off to him - he's a perfect fit IMO.

money vs passion i guess. Hell man if i did this for money i would only do corporate. oh and it is your work we love by the way

So, you just take the pictures and just outsourced everything to someone else....

That would be like shopping at XYZ Store but then if you have a complaint you can't talk to them because you're really not their customer... you need to talk to some guy in <insert country other than US>.

Wow Dan, that was very nice (dispite the slight scolding). I AM marketing on my own, but I wouldnt mind filling in the "holes" that is why I continue to "whore myself out" to other photographers. I also DO spend time marketing my brand, but a day that goes by that I dont book a job doesnt help to put groceries in the fridge. I eat sleep and breath this industry, I am always trying to expand my clientel, but as you well know the competition is growing and it takes money to make money, so its a slow and steady climb. Although Bella might not pay me "what Im worth", while Im making that climb, Id rather make something on a Saturday I dont have anything booked than sit on my butt and hope the phone rings. Its a catch 22 really and it sucks, but its a way to survive while I work on putting everyone else out of business.

At the end of the day, you're basically 2nd shooting for Bella. With no change of reciprocation.

I'm not saying it's good or bad, but that's the way I look at it. The Bella photogs I've met are not wedding photographers, by the way. One was a "social issues" photog who shot about 75 Bella weddings a year to keep him busy when he wasn't waist deep in muck somewhere in Southeast Asia. The other ran a portrait studio.

Change is scary! The industry is changing quickly, and we had better change with it (whatver that means) or risk obselecense.

-TM

So, in otherwords, we should do weddings for $500, give 100% money back guarantees, refundable deposits (notice I did say deposit and not retainer, I said that on purpose), and have someone other than ourselves take care of the customer and yes, I said "customer" not "client" Big Box Retail Store has "customers", fast food has "customers", I have "clients".

OOOO! Don't forget support marketing that will potentially put them on the Google ad word colum if someone does a google search specifically for YOUR NAME.

I'm not a big enough threat to Bella, I don't have anything in the "sponsored by" column on Google if you search for me.

Hi Neal,

It's more like $800, I think. The question is, if you do a Bella Wedding for 8 hours for $800, or a "full service" client (meeting-meeting-shoot-process-album design-revise-revise-revise-print-deliver) for $3000 for 40 hours of work, which one is the better deal? Bella has economies of scale, and they can pay unskilled folks $15 an hour (or whatever) to do the album design.

Just food for thought - I am Bella agnostic so far.

-Ben



And they're not doing it to Yervant or Mike Colon either. Must be targeting mid-range photographers in select cities.

-TM