Full Version: WHO WANTS TO SHOOT MY CRUISE WEDDING?!
Geez, I'm in if Frank, Brady, Chris and Tim are going!!!
QUOTE(Davina @ May 23 2007, 04:02 PM) [snapback]140510[/snapback]
I'm a little worried about posting this here but I think I will anyway.
I'm thinking that Karen has a good point. I've been busy and away from the forum for a while, however, I'm surprised lately at the amount of threads I've been on where people are attacked for having a differing point of view. Rather than having a good and decent conversation about different points of view so many are jumping on the band wagon of attacking someone for their opinion. It makes me a little sad.
I just wonder how many photographers here would be posting if a client came to them and said, "Hey, I'll pay for your trip to ___________ if you'll shoot my wedding. I'm not planning to pay you anything just for your trip." Would we all be so ready to jump at the chance or would we be posting about how crazy this person is for thinking that's all they have to do to get a good photographer? I know I've turned down clients who have offered similar things to me. Most photographers charge for their service as well as travel and lodging. We complain about people not being willing to pay for what we're worth and then we ask each other to do it for free.
No matter how you look at, you are really doing this wedding for free. If you want to do it for free that's your perogative but let's not jump down the throat of someone who wouldn't.
Let's be kind around here...please. I'm sad at the things that are happening here lately after having been gone for a while. I hope my name won't be looked down on for posting this post.
Thanks for reading.
Congratulations Jenny! Your wedding sounds like it's going to be a huge amount of fun! I'm sure you'll have a great time and it'll be a perfect day...and you're going to have some awesome photographers there!
I'm thinking that Karen has a good point. I've been busy and away from the forum for a while, however, I'm surprised lately at the amount of threads I've been on where people are attacked for having a differing point of view. Rather than having a good and decent conversation about different points of view so many are jumping on the band wagon of attacking someone for their opinion. It makes me a little sad.
I just wonder how many photographers here would be posting if a client came to them and said, "Hey, I'll pay for your trip to ___________ if you'll shoot my wedding. I'm not planning to pay you anything just for your trip." Would we all be so ready to jump at the chance or would we be posting about how crazy this person is for thinking that's all they have to do to get a good photographer? I know I've turned down clients who have offered similar things to me. Most photographers charge for their service as well as travel and lodging. We complain about people not being willing to pay for what we're worth and then we ask each other to do it for free.
No matter how you look at, you are really doing this wedding for free. If you want to do it for free that's your perogative but let's not jump down the throat of someone who wouldn't.
Let's be kind around here...please. I'm sad at the things that are happening here lately after having been gone for a while. I hope my name won't be looked down on for posting this post.
Thanks for reading.
Congratulations Jenny! Your wedding sounds like it's going to be a huge amount of fun! I'm sure you'll have a great time and it'll be a perfect day...and you're going to have some awesome photographers there!
QUOTE
You basically came on and slammed someone for making an offer to other photographers. But now you're the victim???
Never said I was a victim, much less "the victim". And I didn't slam anyone. This was an offer posted on a PUBLIC board ... viewable by the public. I responded to it with my thoughts - that I think it's disrespectful of one professional to ask another to work for free.
Now please explain to me where I have personally attacked or slammed anyone and yet my marriage and my values have been called into question.
I ask again: are people only allowed to post here if they toe the party line?
Karen
Karen, I think we're going to run around in circles on this one.
I'm truly sorry if what I said seemed nasty or cruel... I was trying to be funny more than anything. But it does seem like you only post when you have a chance to condescend. Maybe that's not your intention, but that's how a lot of us take it. I bet you have a ton of information to share, but the only time you seem to share is to tell us when we're doing something wrong. The tone of the posts makes it sound like you are simply tolerating being around all these morons. You've even corrected someone's grammar in a post, which I thought was incredibly rude and demeaning.
If I've got it wrong, I would be more than willing to hear you out. If you want to pm me, that's fine. But there's a communication issue that's affecting us both and affecting the integrity of the entire board. Part of it is my fault, but I think you have to own up to some of it too.
In a perfect world, I would have saved the smart alec comments and simply replied that I disagreed and I thought you were being a bit harsh.
I'm truly sorry if what I said seemed nasty or cruel... I was trying to be funny more than anything. But it does seem like you only post when you have a chance to condescend. Maybe that's not your intention, but that's how a lot of us take it. I bet you have a ton of information to share, but the only time you seem to share is to tell us when we're doing something wrong. The tone of the posts makes it sound like you are simply tolerating being around all these morons. You've even corrected someone's grammar in a post, which I thought was incredibly rude and demeaning.
If I've got it wrong, I would be more than willing to hear you out. If you want to pm me, that's fine. But there's a communication issue that's affecting us both and affecting the integrity of the entire board. Part of it is my fault, but I think you have to own up to some of it too.
In a perfect world, I would have saved the smart alec comments and simply replied that I disagreed and I thought you were being a bit harsh.
karen, you do have a valid point that the same request may have been balked at had the requestor not been another photographer and member of our community. (i actually took a similar offer from a client, and got to go to paris, which was really lovely for me, so overall i disagree with you, but it's something to consider)
the dissonance is not with your point...it's with the style of presentation. you have a knack for stating things in the most dramatic of ways...and that puts people immediately on the defensive. at the same time, you spoke of Jenny as if she were not in the room (so to say), and i found that odd at best.
to make matters worse, many of our members here overreacted. i think this has a lot to do with a long history, and people have short fuses now. i'd like to ask those people to please think twice before responding in an elevated matter in the future. (not that i have any right to ask...i'm just saying...)
obviously every photographer needs to make an individual evaluation of whether such a gig is on the whole beneficial. and obviously we couldn't take these kinds of gigs all the time....(well, it includes food...so maybe, lol). but it's not an offensive offer, and i think your post was worded perhaps too strongly.
besides, appropriate compensation (monetary or otherwise) is largely relative to experience, equipment, style, and popularity. it would be a rediculous offer for say, yervant....but for someone just starting out, it's a whale of a deal, too good to be true! based on the responses, it seems like the compensation offered here was acceptable to a lot of photographers at many levels. Jenny you've got a lot to choose from!
anyway....chill everyone. best wishes to jenny!
the dissonance is not with your point...it's with the style of presentation. you have a knack for stating things in the most dramatic of ways...and that puts people immediately on the defensive. at the same time, you spoke of Jenny as if she were not in the room (so to say), and i found that odd at best.
to make matters worse, many of our members here overreacted. i think this has a lot to do with a long history, and people have short fuses now. i'd like to ask those people to please think twice before responding in an elevated matter in the future. (not that i have any right to ask...i'm just saying...)
obviously every photographer needs to make an individual evaluation of whether such a gig is on the whole beneficial. and obviously we couldn't take these kinds of gigs all the time....(well, it includes food...so maybe, lol). but it's not an offensive offer, and i think your post was worded perhaps too strongly.
besides, appropriate compensation (monetary or otherwise) is largely relative to experience, equipment, style, and popularity. it would be a rediculous offer for say, yervant....but for someone just starting out, it's a whale of a deal, too good to be true! based on the responses, it seems like the compensation offered here was acceptable to a lot of photographers at many levels. Jenny you've got a lot to choose from!
anyway....chill everyone. best wishes to jenny!
Point taken, Jillian.
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No, really.
Jillian and Davina,
You are both very wise and your presence on these boards is invaluable.
QUOTE(Shane Snider @ May 23 2007, 06:12 PM) [snapback]140683[/snapback]
Point taken, Jillian.
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No, really.
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No, really.HAHAHAHA. I've met you shane....i don't believe it for a second!! but i love you anyway.
If the 150 other folks fall through, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Once you have the date let me know and it's yours!
I have not booked in 2009 so the date is yours!
I have not booked in 2009 so the date is yours!
Jillian, your posts in these types of circumstances are always so incredible. Thanks for taking the time!
you too davina!!! gosh, i think you said it all better anyway.
We would love to do it
So....guess you have a lot of choices huh?!?!?!?
But only pick us if you want to have fun and take some crazy pictures!
So....guess you have a lot of choices huh?!?!?!?
But only pick us if you want to have fun and take some crazy pictures!
Shane, I really appreciate the post you made just before Jillian's...somehow I missed it the last time I posted.
And Jillian...I so need to spend more time with you. You're really an awesome person!
Jenny, keep us posted on who you choose!
And Jillian...I so need to spend more time with you. You're really an awesome person!
Jenny, keep us posted on who you choose!
QUOTE(Davina @ May 23 2007, 04:02 PM) [snapback]140510[/snapback]
I just wonder how many photographers here would be posting if a client came to them and said, "Hey, I'll pay for your trip to ___________ if you'll shoot my wedding. I'm not planning to pay you anything just for your trip." Would we all be so ready to jump at the chance or would we be posting about how crazy this person is for thinking that's all they have to do to get a good photographer? I know I've turned down clients who have offered similar things to me. Most photographers charge for their service as well as travel and lodging. We complain about people not being willing to pay for what we're worth and then we ask each other to do it for free.
No matter how you look at, you are really doing this wedding for free. If you want to do it for free that's your perogative but let's not jump down the throat of someone who wouldn't.
Congratulations Jenny! Your wedding sounds like it's going to be a huge amount of fun! I'm sure you'll have a great time and it'll be a perfect day...and you're going to have some awesome photographers there!
No matter how you look at, you are really doing this wedding for free. If you want to do it for free that's your perogative but let's not jump down the throat of someone who wouldn't.
Congratulations Jenny! Your wedding sounds like it's going to be a huge amount of fun! I'm sure you'll have a great time and it'll be a perfect day...and you're going to have some awesome photographers there!
Personally, I'm all for bartering! I don't see anything wrong with it. Just because I like to get paid to take pictures, that doesn't mean I don't do it for fun experiences, too! My favorite quote in the world is "Let the beauty we love be what we do," and art and photography are the beauty that I love. I'm going to do it whether somebody hands me money or not, so if, rather than tangible money, they offer me a trip, why not?
I agree with you about criticizing others just because they feel differently than the majority of people who replied. That's okay that Karen doesn't like my idea. She's entitled to her opinion, and she's not doing me any harm by expressing it.
QUOTE(Frank DiMeo @ May 23 2007, 04:26 PM) [snapback]140527[/snapback]
Then say there are thirty photographers that end up being interested. Does it get to the point where, well so and so will do it for this, or they are including an album. Plus what about the post production, and all of the people that get their feelings hurt because they weren't good enough.
I have to say that after thinking about it, Karen is making a lot of sense here, and Davina's statements back up her thinking.
I'm sorry Jenny, but I am no longer interested, and respectfully pull my hat out of this.
Good luck to you, and to whom ever you decide is better than everyone else to shoot
this for you.
I have to say that after thinking about it, Karen is making a lot of sense here, and Davina's statements back up her thinking.
I'm sorry Jenny, but I am no longer interested, and respectfully pull my hat out of this.
Good luck to you, and to whom ever you decide is better than everyone else to shoot
this for you.
No worries, Frank. I understand, and, like I said in my reply to Davina's post, I'm not going to judge because somebody isn't fond of what I think will be a lot of fun.
Although, I do have to say that "good enough" is very subjective, and I'm not that catty.
QUOTE(bsteffine @ May 23 2007, 04:54 PM) [snapback]140547[/snapback]
Geez. What started out as a fun, celebratory post has degraded into another unfortunate controversy.
Davina, you made some valid points. And Karen brought up some legitimate concerns, too. But was it really necessary? Jennifer simply put out the offer for what, in a sense, would be a barter. Nothing wrong with that. She can do that. And the responses were positive and enjoyable.
Then came the negative energy. Karen can express whatever is on her mind too. But again, was it really necessary? Why rain on Jennifer's "parade"?
I think it comes down to the issue of context, respectfulness and sensitivity. Jennifer's post has been interuppted by the insensitive scribblings of a poisoned pen.
Davina, you made some valid points. And Karen brought up some legitimate concerns, too. But was it really necessary? Jennifer simply put out the offer for what, in a sense, would be a barter. Nothing wrong with that. She can do that. And the responses were positive and enjoyable.
Then came the negative energy. Karen can express whatever is on her mind too. But again, was it really necessary? Why rain on Jennifer's "parade"?
I think it comes down to the issue of context, respectfulness and sensitivity. Jennifer's post has been interuppted by the insensitive scribblings of a poisoned pen.
Thanks, Bruce. I definitely agree that Karen and Davina made good points. They didn't go along with my post, but that's okay! This is a forum, and everyone here is entitled to express their opinion whether they do it publicly or in a personal message. That's fine.
I anticipated a few negative responses, but I am so surprised and thankful for the number of positive responses that I received! I honestly didn't expect so many, and I don't want people to start resenting me or my post because it turns into a competition. I absolutely do not want that!! I wasn't sure if anyone would be up for it at all, and rather than just e-mail photographers that I'm interested in and risk coming off as insulting and getting turned down/disappointed, I figured I would just let you guys... well.. respond to me if interested, you know?
QUOTE(KarenS @ May 23 2007, 08:42 PM) [snapback]140670[/snapback]
Never said I was a victim, much less "the victim". And I didn't slam anyone. This was an offer posted on a PUBLIC board ... viewable by the public. I responded to it with my thoughts - that I think it's disrespectful of one professional to ask another to work for free.
Now please explain to me where I have personally attacked or slammed anyone and yet my marriage and my values have been called into question.
I ask again: are people only allowed to post here if they toe the party line?
Karen
Now please explain to me where I have personally attacked or slammed anyone and yet my marriage and my values have been called into question.
I ask again: are people only allowed to post here if they toe the party line?
Karen
Karen, I want you to know that I am not offended by your objection to my post. I do not feel like you attacked me personally, and it's okay that you disagree with what I proposed. I made the post sincerely and innocently. I had absolutely no intentions of offending anyone - I just thought it would be fun! What's wrong with a little bartering? It's not that uncommon, and, personally, I would find no offense if someone made a similar proposal to me, whether it was for photography or a painting or... babysitting their dog while they're out of town!
No hard feelings, really, and please do not feel uncomfortable about expressing your opinion.
QUOTE(Jillian Kay @ May 23 2007, 09:07 PM) [snapback]140679[/snapback]
karen, you do have a valid point that the same request may have been balked at had the requestor not been another photographer and member of our community. (i actually took a similar offer from a client, and got to go to paris, which was really lovely for me, so overall i disagree with you, but it's something to consider)
the dissonance is not with your point...it's with the style of presentation. you have a knack for stating things in the most dramatic of ways...and that puts people immediately on the defensive. at the same time, you spoke of Jenny as if she were not in the room (so to say), and i found that odd at best.
to make matters worse, many of our members here overreacted. i think this has a lot to do with a long history, and people have short fuses now. i'd like to ask those people to please think twice before responding in an elevated matter in the future. (not that i have any right to ask...i'm just saying...)
obviously every photographer needs to make an individual evaluation of whether such a gig is on the whole beneficial. and obviously we couldn't take these kinds of gigs all the time....(well, it includes food...so maybe, lol). but it's not an offensive offer, and i think your post was worded perhaps too strongly.
besides, appropriate compensation (monetary or otherwise) is largely relative to experience, equipment, style, and popularity. it would be a rediculous offer for say, yervant....but for someone just starting out, it's a whale of a deal, too good to be true! based on the responses, it seems like the compensation offered here was acceptable to a lot of photographers at many levels. Jenny you've got a lot to choose from!
anyway....chill everyone. best wishes to jenny!
the dissonance is not with your point...it's with the style of presentation. you have a knack for stating things in the most dramatic of ways...and that puts people immediately on the defensive. at the same time, you spoke of Jenny as if she were not in the room (so to say), and i found that odd at best.
to make matters worse, many of our members here overreacted. i think this has a lot to do with a long history, and people have short fuses now. i'd like to ask those people to please think twice before responding in an elevated matter in the future. (not that i have any right to ask...i'm just saying...)
obviously every photographer needs to make an individual evaluation of whether such a gig is on the whole beneficial. and obviously we couldn't take these kinds of gigs all the time....(well, it includes food...so maybe, lol). but it's not an offensive offer, and i think your post was worded perhaps too strongly.
besides, appropriate compensation (monetary or otherwise) is largely relative to experience, equipment, style, and popularity. it would be a rediculous offer for say, yervant....but for someone just starting out, it's a whale of a deal, too good to be true! based on the responses, it seems like the compensation offered here was acceptable to a lot of photographers at many levels. Jenny you've got a lot to choose from!
anyway....chill everyone. best wishes to jenny!
Very good points, Jillian. Thanks for your support, and oh my gosh - Paris?! WOW.
QUOTE(bsteffine @ May 23 2007, 04:54 PM) [snapback]140547[/snapback]
Davina, you made some valid points. And Karen brought up some legitimate concerns, too. But was it really necessary? Jennifer simply put out the offer for what, in a sense, would be a barter. Nothing wrong with that. She can do that. And the responses were positive and enjoyable.
Then came the negative energy. Karen can express whatever is on her mind too. But again, was it really necessary? Why rain on Jennifer's "parade"?
I think it comes down to the issue of context, respectfulness and sensitivity. Jennifer's post has been interuppted by the insensitive scribblings of a poisoned pen.
Then came the negative energy. Karen can express whatever is on her mind too. But again, was it really necessary? Why rain on Jennifer's "parade"?
I think it comes down to the issue of context, respectfulness and sensitivity. Jennifer's post has been interuppted by the insensitive scribblings of a poisoned pen.
+1
QUOTE(KarenS @ May 23 2007, 05:01 PM) [snapback]140553[/snapback]
Again .. is this a place where people are free to discuss things and express their opinons, or is it a place where you have to be a "yes-man" to participate. Why is someone expressing a different point of view accused of "negative energy"?
Your post was clearly negative. She was just happily announcing her news and asking if anyone was interested. She didn't ask who wasn't interested, or who doesn't want to do it, or who think's its a bad idea. She was curious about who would do it and who would be interested. If you're not interested simply head out of the thread and don't post and leave her to be happy about everything that's going on. There's no need to pee in someone's kool-aid when they're being happy and offering a decent barter agreement that clearly interests a few photographers.
I'm not saying that you don't have a "right" to say anything, just that of course there are going to be people who don't like the idea, but she wasn't interested in those responses she wanted to know who was. There is no "party-line" so feel free to say what you want, but most people here are positive, happy and "look on the bright side" kind of people and defend those who are the same way.
That would be so amazing!! Heck, I'd even give you my first born! (Just kidding). But I would love to be considered (hint hint )
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