I need recommendations on the ideal photo professional vehicle. Before you make some joke about needing a stretch limo or a hummer, keep in mind that i'm actually serious. I'm in the market to lease a business vehicle that will double as a back-up for our family that is reliable and is smart with my gear. Any suggestions?

Dana! Good to hear from you and a great question that I hope others will prompt in on as well. Firstly, you already said lease and I think that that's a great option on the business side of things for obvious tax reasons. Secondly, I would consider security and space the two other biggest factors. We carry lots of gear and some of it is crazy sizes and shapes and I think it's important to be able to tuck it all away in the trunk so that it's out of sight and this allows you to still use your car to carry people if need be. I shot a wedding a couple months ago and had to taxi a couple drunk people home from the reception because there weren't enough rides. My trunk was full so I had my gear in the backseat with this kid half passed out on it - not a good situation. Also, Having a fatty camera bag sitting in your backseat is kind of like putting a Canon sticker on your car - it basically says "Rob me!" I'd also make sure that it has an alarm but other than that make sure it's safe for the kids and that has a live Satellite TV connection! http://www.kvh.com/tracvision/a5/index.asp

:-)

What do you think about a stationwagon option with a horizontal curtain that could cover all your gear?

The minivan is always a good option....It's very "family friendly." The biggest risk is security, but nowadays they come with tinted windows so stuff isn't quite as obvious if it's sitting in the back...plus you can always just throw a blanket over it. It's also got the most room. With easily removable seats and you've basically got yourself a truck. It's great. Not to mention they last quite a ways. My old minivan from home just died with about 200,000 miles. That's my recommendation.

~chris

Minivans are great/practical cars and my family had one growing up. Really the only reason I'd shy away from it would be for image reasons, which are minimal, but it could serve several purposes for you that would be great. Maybe a bit more space than you need being that you already have a suburban! I liked your wagon idea with the pull over back. I think that could be perfect!

I decided to add the security/luggage cover on my old '91 volvo wagon to test out the hypothesis. I'll let you know how it goes in a little bit.

No question, the wagon plus security cover rocks. Total convenience, lots of room for gear and people, classy ride ... if it weren't a '91.

I purchased a new to me car last year so went through this pretty recently.

One of the considerations I had was image. For the 10 years prior I drove a cute domestic convertible. I always kept it very clean, dent and scratch free. Many of my clients drive higher end luxury cars.

While I never got comments on the old car other than "cute convertible", it didn't seem to be doing me any favors, either. I upgraded to a very clean, used, german luxury convertible and suddenly the clients with similar level cars were starting conversations (about the car) in a much chummier way than they would previously. I do beleive that the selection of car has offered the opportunity for an extra level of rapport that didn't exist before.

Does it do the job as intended? Not quite as efficiently as the larger car...all my gear fits in the trunk, but if it's an out of towner the suticase ends up on the back seat. If I have to provide a framed piece at the wedding I do have to drive our Blazer. Does it give an impression and possible advantage I didn't have before? Sure seems to.

FWIW, if you can get an image boost along with the practicality for a reasonable price, it just might be something to think about. I wouldn't have put the money into a lease for a new BMW, but the purchase price was much less than I imagined and unbelieveable to the few people I have confided in.

I'm with ya! I bought a 93 BMW a year or so ago and I'm definitely in agreement about the importance of image in our business. Upgrading not only can give you a better look all around but it also shows success and we all know that people are drawn to that. I think this helped my business especially with my "acquantance" type friends who didn't really take what I did seriously...they do now! :-)

Hi David ~

I agree so much having tested the theory out.. My car is a 97 convertible, which is not the latest body but the last one before the change. Almost everyone thought it was brand new which really (especially among vendors) blew everyone's minds. I had recently changed my prices for the better and for the first time in 12 years of business vendors were applauding the price increase(!) . People really perceive having nice things as success and want to somehow touch it and soak it in.

On a side note, is there an area of the forum that I should use to introduce myself to the group? I didn't see one so just jumped right in. Also, I'd like to change my username to my own name, is there a way to do that?

Hey Marcia!

Wow! I just checked out your website and loved your shots as well as reading about the other areas of photography that you're involved in. I'd also love to read some of the articles that you've written so if you have any links to them please post them up!

I also added an "Introduction" section which I think is a great idea so please post something up there and I'll encourage the others to put something up as well.

We'll have to get together sometime! I noticed that you're in Goleta so let's definitely keep in touch and find a time to connect.

All my best!
David

...I'll also see if we can get your logon name changed... :-) I'm not sure how to do it but I think it can be done.

All right you two ... let me know when you come across a sweet deal on a german make. I'd be willing to consider a swedish trade-in. If you lost your current ride, what would you be on the lookout for?

For David and Dana ~

Dana, first: I'm not sure where you are located, but since I wanted a very specific car, we hunted on the internet statewide to really get an idea of prices (BMW 3 series convertible). Prices on BMWs vary quite alot depending on options, mileage, modifications, owner's ego and divorces!!!!

Best deals were on Craigslist.org in Silicon Valley.

I bought mine in January 2003 and shopped for 3 months on-line before seriously seeing cars in person. I wanted certain key options and color...sports package, automatic, and either Moorea Green (supposedly rare), Samoa Blue, or Silver. My husband wanted low mileage and price. He gave me a budget of 18k to work with and under 40k miles. We ended up spending more...there were many cars out there but if they fit his criteria they didn't fit mine. We ended up with a '97 Moorea Green (my top choice) 328ic with ALL options available on that car and 41k miles for 21.5k My husband (in auto industry) estimates that my car probably left the showroom floor in the 48k area. Most people ask me if I got an inheritance when the see the car for the first time!

Now, David: Thanks for changing my name and starting the intro seciton...I'll get on there and place a proper intro a bit later. I'm actually in Solvang, but get to Santa Barbara once or twice a week so would love to get together. Where is everyone located in this group??? Maybe we could do a meet and greet up here in wine country and hit a few tasting rooms?????

Thanks Marcia. Very helpful. I love craigslist. I was just thinking about it this morning (the car situation). By the way, I live and work in Santa Barbara. David Jay and I are good friends ... so I'd love to be in on the opensourcephotoleague (trademark pending) wine or beer get together.

Fabulous! Another Santa Barbara person(!) and I love the name opensourcephotoleague.....hmmmm, bet there is some marketing genious in that....hmmmm, we could become the 21st century F64 group ....maybe we could invite the ghosts of Adams, Weston and Bullock to join us drinking our wine etc. and think about how we could get some extra name recognition for all of us at the same time...the possibilities are endless...

I'm down!

Dana Sanders is the marketing genious of the "Open Source" link and let's round up the ghosts and the rest of the SB crew and get some drinks - soon!!! The last couple of weeks have been rough and a getaway would be a wonderfully welcomed break!!!

Have a great weekend everyone! (I may be AWOL for a bit but I'll try and keep in touch from the hotel)

cheers,
DJ

So I have a line on a 2002 VW Passat Sedan with all the bells and whistles. I need some objective advice on what you all think the passat "communicates"? The people's car? Mid-size couldn't afford a bmw? Sweet ride that you all wish you had?

I'm kind of serious here and I don't want to make an unwise investment. The price is fair ($19,000) but unlike DJ, I'm not throwing money around like it's going out of style.

I need your wisdom people? Good investment or foolhearty desire for leather seats and sugar monsoon sound system?

BTW, as the founder of the Open Source Photo League, I'm taking nominations for our inaugural members.

On the downlow ... a pint of guinness and bass will get you in automatically.

Okay, so Black and Tan's at Bogart's???? Oooh, let's get the car thing done first.

The Passat is a great car...what is your clientele like? I think a nearly new euro sedan sets the mood nicely and if someone were to raise an eyebrow at it I'm not sure I would want them as a client.

What's a sugar monsoon sound system? Does it hula or something?

Sounds sweet....I have trouble reading though...can you please post a picture!

19 G's - ahhh

So....

What do you think my tan '87 Camry is telling my clientel? Should I be worried? (I need to invest in a 16-35mm, before I upgrade my set of wheels), but perhaps I should be more concerned in the next few years as my cashflow increases from my current immediate postgraduate state.

~chris

Chris ~

I think what says the most to a client (or potential one) is how you care for your car. If you pull up and it is shiny clean and in good repair (no obvious dents and paint looks good) then that says alot about your habits. I don't think have a less current car ever hurts the situation as long as it is well maintained, I do think having a higher value car helps if you are dealing with a like minded clientele. It can actually hurt you if you if it gives the impression that they are paying you too much!!!!

On the flip side. do any of us really want a client that would judge us on something as plastic as what we drive than on our artistry???

The whole notion of this topic assumes that what matters most is ... well, everything. Certainly, if we can't create ... well, we shouldn't be doing this. So, the photography is obviously central.

But, we want to be the whole package don't we?

Taking every aspect of how we are servicing our clients seriously is simply what is required if we consider ourselves professionals. That said, we need to do that within our means.

I agree with Marcia here, what matters is not just what we roll up in but how we roll up. To borrow a quote, we're concerned with both verbs and adverbs ... what we do and how we do it.

Ahhhh what a topic.... one thats way to common in my life now!

OK, long story short.... bought new car 5 years ago for business tax write off. Bought a saturn (dh is an engineer and will only buy saturns, so now we have 2) .... fast forward.... tax time last year, accountant says, need more write offs (like a home and a business is not enough aparently) he suggested another new car for the business.... I am sooo for it. With a family now (a 3 year old son) I was really hoping to get a wagon or crossover SUV....

fast forward to 6 months ago.... finally convince hubby that Saturn doesn't have what my business and fmaily needs and I research and find the perfect SUV.... I even research pricing and got it 3K below invoice with 0% financing.... the car becomes a LEMON.... out of service for the first 60 days out of 100..... fast forward to now..... we got no where with the dealership or the car company, hired an attorney (yay for attorney brides who saved us with an awesome referral!) attorney files pre ligitation demand letter, no negotations.... car is now dead in our garage un drive avle, leaking oil, stalling and the transmission is having problems ( yes this is a new car drove off the lot with 27 miles on it) so now we are in the middle of a law suit, getting the darn thing bought back.....

So I am once again shopping for a new car.... I think with having a business that requires travel, you become what you drive.... I think its rather importrant that you present your self as professional as you can with the pocket book that you can afford. I have my choices narrowed down to the Acura MDX or the Cadillac SRX... most likely the acura will win out since its been around for 5 years and teh SRX is newer only being around for 2 years.... god forbid I make that same mistake again buying a brand new first year SUV!!!!

On this same note, I have found it hard to jumo into the next price level for me 5-7k area beacuse of the home we own.... I know looks are not everything, we have a beautiful old home in camarillo.... but I think because its not a new home, people may find it hard to justify spending 5k on me... KWIM? I am okay with my average booking at around 3k... but of course I know I can make much more, just dont know how the higher end cliential will respond to my older home.... And of course there is no way we will step up to a newer home or bigger for that fact any time soon.... we actually are adding onto our home this spring and hopefully ifits a good photo year we will remodel the kitchen, bathrooms and retile/carpet the whole house.... (oh yeah and if I had my way remove the pop corn off those darn ceilings!)

wow I have said way to much!!!!

BTW - if you ever, and I mean ever, need any extra tax write offs you can always buy me a new car - I hear charitable gifting is a great way to avoid Uncle Sam!

I'm sorry to hear about your trouble with the car/company. What a bummer and we recently had to suck some unpaid $$$ out of couple through our lawyers and it's no fun for anyone but I hope it gets resolved.

I'm glad we're back on the car topic because I'm in the hunt too! ...and I'm also on the tail of Acura! My old roommate hacks at me constantly though b/c Mike Colon just bought one...and even though I have been known to idolize him too much that isn't the reason for me leaning towards that car. Honda's Acura was actually the first car I drove (it was my parents) and it was awesome and unbelievably reliable! On top of all that they are the coolest cars out there! They've integrated bluetooth and navigation which rocks!!!

The MDX's are sweet but I'm more of a car guy so I'm looking into the TL...haven't pulled the trigger yet but I think the time is drawing near!

Checkout the TL here

Lastly, Leanne, I don't think your house will hold anyone back...sell yourself to that market and they'll buy. Your photography is great and I really don't know anything about your business but if you're in contact with clients who can afford that price range then I think you'll be successful in selling to them. I really like your style and I think your site could use some updating but other than that you just need to keep in mind that you'll never get those dollars if you don't ask for them! :-)

Cheers!
DJ

David, I will add you to my list of people to buy cars for! :lol The TL is niceeeeee. I have been a car person all my life and I have fallen in love with my crossover SUV... to bad I never got to really drive it and enjoy it.... it only made it to 2 weddings this year (breaking down at one ) The MDX is sweet and yes, gotta love the bluetooth technology and the navagation!

Thanks for the encouraging words.... funny you should mention the website cause I just sent them a list of 2o images to remove with a CD of about 15 new ones to ad.

I need a new mug shot, so I will either get to that next or just start doing my hair red again.....

Have a great night.... you all will have to let me know when you plan on getting together up in SBA, I would love to come up and meet ya all! I am just in love with all this info here that is shared! I hope I can give back to everyone else too!

leanne

David - The TL is sweet.

This is a very interesting discussion. There definitely is a fine balance in business between promoting image, being true to whom you are and being wise with your resources.

As a photographer I have definitely realized that having a sense of personal style really helps convey that I have creative photographic style. Which is why I feel so behind in getting a website together and am trying to learn Dreamweaver as fast as I can.

Without a doubt I think that what you pull up in certainly conveys something about your personal and photographic style. I have had my eye on a Mini Cooper for some time. When my Daewoo (fine piece of craftsmanship) is done I hope to one.

Kurt

Mini Coopers are sweet!

I was reading on OSP and I can't believe I never found this thread. (I'm such a junkie)...But anyhow...about the car and image thingy...

when I was single I bought a Jeep Grand Cherokee 4x4. Loved it. I wish I had it still now that I'm getting established. I've been a Jeep Girl forever. BUT.. With all the entertaining and out of town guests we had coming in...I couldn't really fit a lot of people in my Jeep with my son's carseat (that took up half the back row). To make a long story short, I resorted to buying a Chrysler Town and Country (which compromised the family growing issue and having a photography business)....I wept the whole day after I purchased the minivan. That purchase just had "I'm not so cool anymore" written all over it. But my husband (the emtionally stable one) reassured me that in time (if we didnt' have any more kids) that we could get something more to my liking.

Now here's another thing...the area in which you live in is also important. If I lived back in Honolulu or Cali..specifically in the SB area...I would totally not care about what my redneck husband thinks and I would have bought a Benz. (without taking away from our table at home, ofcourse!) We're talking two different worlds and lifestyles here.

For this area (south Louisiana)...it's not sooo much important that what I drive makes who I am primarily. A lot of politicians, lawyers and doctors who pay 4-5K per wedding drive modest vehicles. (well..the ones that i'm friends with) When I bought my van (two years ago), I thought that people would look at me and think I was just mediocre. But since I do work from my home right now I guess the house balances off the "un-luxory" cars the we drive. We live in a very nice neighborhood with highly respected professionals in our area. People used to look at us (being that we bought our house when we were 23 and 24) and thought that we had gotten an inheritance or something.


Now...on the other side...let me share with you all this story...A couple called me to look at my work...being that my website is being redone, I offered to show them the hardcopies of my stuff at their house. They lived in a trailer park and really didnt' have anything luxurious written all over them. So...naturally I assumed that when they saw my prices (2500k to 6k) that they were not really going to book my services. When I was done with my presentation, they paid CASH IN FULL and booked my most epensive package. That experience humbled me.

Summing things up...image and the first impression is very important. Making yourself broke to look good on the outside and feel financially miserable on the inside may not be the best way to go. I think that we're all different people with different circumstances and needs. On OSP some of us are single, young, YOUNGER, married with kids, without kids, etc etc.

As St. Francis De Sales said, "Do not wish to be anything but what you are, and try to be that perfectly. I'm at my own pace my own race and that hasnt' made people look down at me.

Well said, Katherine. Thank you for sharing that!

QUOTE (katherine @ Apr 7 2005, 08:52 AM)

As St. Francis De Sales said, "Do not wish to be anything but what you are, and try to be that perfectly. I'm at my own pace my own race and that hasnt' made people look down at me.

In all honesty, when I was reading this link I was thinking wow.. Does my vehicle really define who I am or what talents I poses? In addition, another thought that passes me is do I judge others by the articles they own.
That quote that KK posted really sums it up.

I'm sure everything said was within reason, right guys???

Really well said, Katherine.

Thank you for digging up this old thread. People often draw conclusions that are horribly off-base from first impressions. I have met 3 or 4 millionaires (one is even a billionaire) who wear less-expensive clothes than I wear and drive old beat-up cars.

This being said, I still believe that if you want to be successful (whatever that means to you), you need to look the part whenever it is appropriate (again, whatever that means to you).

Brian

This is really an interesting topic. Image has become such an important issue in our society. I've always been pretty conservative and for the most part, try to make purchases that are necessary as opposed to buying something that I desire to own. I remember a couple of instances about material things. One, several years ago, my wife and I were ready to buy a minivan about the time our son Michael was born. We did our homework, set a limit on the cost and headed out for the dealer in search of a good used minivan. I've always had excellent credit and don't abuse it. After meeting with the salesman, we found a pretty solid vehicle within our price range. The salesman went in to run a credit check and came running out waving the report saying, "I can put you in a Lexus! Your credit is awesome!" I replied, "How do you think it got that way? Sorry, we're not interested in a Lexus. We'll stick with the used minivan." Last year, I sold my restored VW bus, I now drive an older Volvo wagon (we have two), and own the pink slips. If someone thinks I'm not cool because of my wheels, that's their problem. I'd love to have a new Dodge Magnum, but it's not worth $30,000 to me. We own a modest house in an old neighborhood, and I have no problem inviting clients into our home. In fact, they usually comment on how comfortable it is.
The second incident was when I shot pro football for a couple of years before the Rams moved to St. Louis. There was a young punter on the team who got sucked into leasing a new Mercedes Benz because that's what all the players were driving. He eventually got out of the lease and said, "I didn't like having a $500-a-month car payment." Pretty simple logic, but very wise, too.
Sorry if I go against the grain of today's consumerism, but I believe you do the best within your limits. If that means driving an older car, then just keep it clean and running well. Eventually, you'll have to replace it, but maybe you'll be in a better position then. If you live in an old home or apartment, keep it neat and inviting to your clients. Your photography should justify your pricing, not the home you live in. (Don't forget, Mike Colon lives in and works from an apartment, and gets $20,000 per wedding.)
In an industry where image is everything (literally), don't get too caught up in other's expectations of how you should live.
Christopher

very well said, christopher!

I echo Brians response. It's really tough to not get caught in the consumerism of our culture! I even have that with Photo stuff....I was talking to Dane Sanders the other day and he was telling me he uses iView Media Pro. I've been considering the switch for a little while and I said yeah, when I have more money I'll probably go that route and in his wisdom he said to make sure I actually needed it and to switch only if I my current program (DPP) wasn't doing all I wanted it to. If it is...why switch?

For myself, I'm trying to find that balance between owning nice things and being content with what I have. I WISH we lived in a world where a client would take you simply on your photography alone, but I'm coming to the conclusion that that is not always completely the case.

I think this is a really critical topic....any other thoughts?

Just an FYI (maybe this has already been mentioned) but anyone considering getting iView should checkout the new package deal they have with Phase One!

Check it Out!

With all the talk on other threads about cars, I thought I'd bring this one up. I've thought a lot about the image a car gives to clients. Currently I drive a 97 Camry. Doesn't look pretentious but also doesn't look like a heap. I got it because it so much personifies me (or who I'd like to be). It looks mundane on the outside, but has a V6 and a manual tranny on the inside. It's what's inside that matters.

I guess the analogy I'm trying to make is that as long as your appearance doesn't harm your business, don't sweat it. If your images are good, people will talk about you. And that's really what matters. We live in a neighborhood that's about 20 years old. The houses are nice, but not huge. The lots are bigger than most newer developments. Mature trees. Feels really "homey" and I think it makes people comfortable. When we have people come over for portraits or meetings, I don't feel I have to apologize about the house at all. It's probably what most of our customers grew up in. Again, comfortable. And we try to make them feel comfortable about up the whole time.

Now, if I had the cash for a new, bright yellow little Lotus, I'd justify it by telling the couple they can drive off in it from their wedding if they want.